Disastrous Install

[op_man1]

I pulled the trigger - after countless hours researching different products, looking into the pros and cons of burning wood, shopping around and scounging wood, today was the big installation day. The guys got here early - and they wasted no time in unloading my chosen heater, the Jotul C450 Insert. It was going to be a challenging install since my clearances were tight. The liner was also going to be tough, with two 90 degree elbows to get from the outside chimney to the inside fireplace.

Boy did they work on that liner! Eventually, a loose tile went down and it seemed like victory was at hand, the liner would go through. But wait, a shower of vermiculite... Odd. A shining light solved the mystery - see one of the pictures - there is no masonry connecting the fireplace to the outside chimney! The only thing connecting the two were that loose tile, with the vermiculite behind it. Can you imagine! Granted this house is a bit older - 1950's - but this is ridiculous!

It sure does explain a lot though - the reason a beam was added to the floor under the fireplace (since it was added after construction and the floor began sagging) - and the extremely poor draft despite seemingly favourable conditions. This was obviously a home job from yonder years. Imagine - countless inspectors have been through this place over the years, and countless fires have burned in this "fireplace". I have had the chimney professionally cleaned and these installers were here twice to ensure everything was in order prior to installation and no one saw anything - how could they? The head installer was shocked that this place has not yet burned to the ground.

From what I understand, I now have two options, assuming that wood heating is still my goal: 1 - having a mason redo the fireplace (which means putting the fireplace down and plunking down a big chunk of change), or 2 - tearing the whole thing down and putting a wood stove in, which might be alot more cost effective and perhaps more effective as well. Of course, I have to eat the cost of the cosmetics on the fireplace. Of course, I could just sell all of my wood and go with a gas fireplace (the thought makes me cringe)...

I guess the positive in all of this is that had the liner slipped through easily, a house fire would surely have been in my future.

 

[webbie]

Wow.

we always talk about this time when fireplaces were out of fashion and masons lost the art of building them. That was probably from 1940-2000 (and still somewhat today, although with the proper mason or prefab units they can be very safe.

I grew up in a house built in the 1930's. That had very good fireplaces.

 

[begreen]

Is this on an interior or exterior wall? I'm wondering if it is an exterior wall if a mason could build outside leaving the facade in place? Or would it be possible to do a class A installation to the first floor level, then insulated flex connect, instead of masonry?

 

[Dakotas Dad]

I am no expert in any way, but I don't see why you could not just go with double wall class A flue. That is almost exactly what I am doing with my conversion to a wood stove from pre fab fireplace. My "chimney" is just a brick on three sides chase also. No big deal to me.

 

[begreen]

As long as the class A is correctly supported and the 2" clearance to combustibles for the class A pipe is met or exceeded, it seems like it should work. But best to hear from the installers.

 

[travis_man]

a class a stainless steel flex section with a insulating blanket would eliminate the 2 90 issue is the fireplace a horizontal ??? if it is you will almost always have a woodburning draw issue if that is the case you might want to go with a gas unit the efficiency is higher than most woodburning and can put out some heat depending on the unit not as hot as wood of course because of the masonry dimensons if you go gas look at some travis inserts heat up to 2200 sq feet

 

[BrotherBart]

a class a stainless steel flex section with a insulating blanket would eliminate the 2 90 issue is the fireplace a horizontal ??? if it is you will almost always have a woodburning draw issue if that is the case you might want to go with a gas unit the efficiency is higher than most woodburning and can put out some heat depending on the unit not as hot as wood of course because of the masonry dimensons if you go gas look at some travis inserts heat up to 2200 sq feet

If there happens to be a gas line running to the house. And if he didn't just happen to have a megabucks wood burner sitting there paid for and waiting to be installed.

 

[op_man1]

Thanks for the responses - it sounds like there might be a reasonably cost effective solution. I will talk to the installers about the possibility of the class A and see what they say.

I did a bit of investigating - the neighbour has been in his house since the early 60's and I thought he might know something. Turns out that about 25 or so years ago, the flue lining fell into the chimney down into the fireplace and out into the living room. Apparently scared the hell out of the then-owner! Unforetunately, it seems that he did not apply a proper fix.

Will post an update once i find out what can or cannot be done.

Great forum, thanks for the info.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

I am no expert in any way, but I don't see why you could not just go with double wall class A flue. That is almost exactly what I am doing with my conversion to a wood stove from pre fab fireplace. My "chimney" is just a brick on three sides chase also. No big deal to me.

I second this approach...might be pricy to go double wall the whole way, but I would think that it would work if you have the clearance.

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the responses - it sounds like there might be a reasonably cost effective solution. I will talk to the installers about the possibility of the class A and see what they say.

I did a bit of investigating - the neighbour has been in his house since the early 60's and I thought he might know something. Turns out that about 25 or so years ago, the flue lining fell into the chimney down into the fireplace and out into the living room. Apparently scared the hell out of the then-owner! Unforetunately, it seems that he did not apply a proper fix.

Will post an update once i find out what can or cannot be done.

Great forum, thanks for the info.

That was a good idea to contact the neighbors. Seems like there is a disclosure issue by the sellers, but that's up to you.

By all mean contact a couple good masons as well. It would be good to look at solutions for the problem from both directions.

 

[Ivy Frank]

My only advice on this:

Be safe
and
Make it happen.

Good stove choice.
You obviously (properly) hate the thought of heating with nat gas.

In 5 years, heating with nat gas could be ridiculously expensive.

Get the wood stove in.

Find a way.

Be a burner.