Do I need to insulate liner in chimney.

[guest5234]

I have a 22 foot Chimney which is old so I am going to use a 6 inch Multifuel flue liner, grade 316 with triplelock jointing system.
Chimney is in an inglenook and goes through the middle off the house and not on the outside so is well protected from the elements, do I need to insulate the chimney with vermiculite after liner is in? or is it a waste of money...

Cheers.

 

[guest5234]

u can pour the vermiculate later eh?

Yes, after liner is in I can pour vermiculite down from the top to fill the space between liner and chimney after I have installed stove pipe to liner and fixed register plate to the bottom of course.

 

[sl7vk]

To insulate or not to insulate.... Tough question around these parts.

I insulated because I used a wrap and not a pourable system. If you plan on staying in your hose for 10+ years, then I'd say insulate, no question. You do have the luxury of insulating later if you notice the thing isn't drafting properly.....

How much would insulating cost you?

 

[guest5234]

To insulate or not to insulate.... Tough question around these parts.

I insulated because I used a wrap and not a pourable system. If you plan on staying in your hose for 10+ years, then I'd say insulate, no question. You do have the luxury of insulating later if you notice the thing isn't drafting properly.....

How much would insulating cost you?

Not much to be honest as the gap between liner and chimney is not great, I think I may take your advice and insulate as this is my last home...
Thanks Sir.

 

[Randyb]

What is vermiculite? Of course I suppose I could google it. If you pour this stuff around your liner, what are the after effects should you need to do something else? Does it harden? Can you remove it? Just curios, as I too wrapped my liner.

 

[n6crv]

What is vermiculite? Of course I suppose I could google it. If you pour this stuff around your liner, what are the after effects should you need to do something else? Does it harden? Can you remove it? Just curios, as I too wrapped my liner.

It is great stuff. From what I understand it comes from a kind of rock that is super heated. It then explodes and you get vermiculite. They use it alot in the plant business in the potting soil. The stuff is real light and does not burn. It does come in different sizes. It is or was used in filing the voids in concrete blocks for basements. I used the coarse to pour around my chimney. It is kind of brown and shines.
Don

 

[BrotherBart]

If the chimney is large enough inside I would suggest a insulation wrap, which I understand is becoming more and more common in the UK, instead of the Vermiculite. Either way you need some kind of insulation around it as a safety factor in an old chimney which is sure to have deteriorating mortar joints that could allow heat to escape to surrounding combustible materials.

 

[guest5234]

If the chimney is large enough inside I would suggest a insulation wrap, which I understand is becoming more and more common in the UK, instead of the Vermiculite. Either way you need some kind of insulation around it as a safety factor in an old chimney which is sure to have deteriorating mortar joints that could allow heat to escape to surrounding combustible materials.

Do you think there would be enough heat escaping with these new super efficient stoves to cause a problem in a Chimney is not insulated, over in the UK a lot of stove shops I have spoken to have said there is really no reason to insulate if chimney is inside house.

 

[Henz]

my parents did that and they are glad that they did.

 

[sl7vk]

If the chimney is large enough inside I would suggest a insulation wrap, which I understand is becoming more and more common in the UK, instead of the Vermiculite. Either way you need some kind of insulation around it as a safety factor in an old chimney which is sure to have deteriorating mortar joints that could allow heat to escape to surrounding combustible materials.

Do you think there would be enough heat escaping with these new super efficient stoves to cause a problem in a Chimney is not insulated, over in the UK a lot of stove shops I have spoken to have said there is really no reason to insulate if chimney is inside house.

It was after I spoke to the second shop out here, who told me that insulating was useless (I imagine it takes them too long to insall an insulated liner, and the mark up isn't there) that I decided to do it myself. Also when all the stores were charging me between 600-800 dollars for material (15 feet of Simpson flexible) and 400 to 600 hundred dollars to insall it (unlined)..... Doing it myself, with that material would have cost me about 350 bucks. Install took me, alone about 3 hours.

That is why a site like this has been so useful to me. Great information, and very little bias.

 

[blackgooseJT]

If at all possible insulate your liner. Loose fill vermiculite is not recomended since it has a tendency to migrate both inside the chase,out of the chase, and even into the liner should it ever develop a breach (even tiny) Twenty years ago+ it was fairly common and even suggested by at least one manufacturer. I don't think ANY do so now. I cringe when I am called to service one that is poured with loose fill, and have pulled and re-wrapped about a dozen or so.

blackgooseJT

 

[Cluttermagnet]

Vermiculite is essentially 'puffed mica'. Or 'exploded', as some one mentioned earlier. Mica and vermiculite will tolerate pretty high temperatures. But I feel uncomfortable when some one suggests back filling around a liner in a chimney. Indeed, the stuff flows, and could get inside the liner if it ever developed any holes or other openings.

Vermiculite used to be used as attic insulation. I believe it can sometimes be toxic. Some (all?) vermiculite could have asbestos in it, and asbestos is real bad news. It's carcinogenic and real expensive to 'remediate' (remove).

Edit: Referring above to older vermiculite fill installations, especially in the attics of older houses. These days vermiculite gets checked for asbestos, but beware the older stuff! Thanks BB for clarifying the asbestos hazard matter.

Edits above in bold face font.

 

[BrotherBart]

Vermiculite per se does not contain asbestos. A mine out in Libby, Montana had a problem because of other minerals in the mine and was the source of the asbestos contaminated vermiculite. All sources of the stuff are tested these days to make sure there isn't asbestos contamination.

Vermiculite chimney insulation is very common in Europe where Neil is located.

For Neil's chimney I think a insulation wrap it the ideal. Not for draft but for safety concerns with what is surely an old brick chimney with no liner tiles. I bet their hasn't been a bunch of new construction in Stratford Upon Avon since Billy Shakespeare's time.

 

[guest5234]

Vermiculite per se does not contain asbestos. A mine out in Libby, Montana had a problem because of other minerals in the mine and was the source of the asbestos contaminated vermiculite. All sources of the stuff are tested these days to make sure there isn't asbestos contamination.

Vermiculite chimney insulation is very common in Europe where Neil is located.

For Neil's chimney I think a insulation wrap it the ideal. Not for draft but for safety concerns with what is surely an old brick chimney with no liner tiles. I bet their hasn't been a bunch of new construction in Stratford Upon Avon since Billy Shakespeare's time.

:lol: yes the local Council around here do not like new buildings and all the old pubs have roaring log fires with no liners in the chimneys, they knew how to build them chimneys 300 years ago.

 

[Cluttermagnet]

Vermiculite per se does not contain asbestos. A mine out in Libby, Montana had a problem because of other minerals in the mine and was the source of the asbestos contaminated vermiculite.

Thanks, BB. Noted.

I'd sure hate to run into vermiculite attic insulation in an old house. That would definitely give me pause, so far as doing any work up there.