Does anyone know what would be the best power back-up for the money for my Harman P38?

[cabincrick]

I've had a little difficulty getting definite answers to this question. I don't feel the need for any other power if the electricity goes out in the middle of the winter.....but I need my heat! The dealer I purchased from said they heard alot of people had blown fuses in their stoves this past winter when their generators kicked on. I stayed in my house for one overnight - it was nasty cold! The power came back on the next day - so I was luckier than most. I would want to be sure I have heat if anything similar were to happen in the future. The battery back-up they sell sounds pretty expensive ($500) and I'm not sure how it would easy it would be to deal with. Any guidance would be appreciated.

 

[Ashley]

Battery backup with an inverter can be pretty easy and automatic but keeping it under $500 will be difficult if you want to keep your heat going for any length of time. You need to size your inverter to the size of load it will be running and make sure all the loads it will be running are going through the inverter. You need to account for all the blowers and pumps in the system, usually given in watts and add them up and size your battery bank accordingly. Batteries usually have a reserve capacity rating based on a 20 hr discharge rate. And that is based on a full charge to total discharge in 20 hours. So, for example, if you have a 12 volt battery rated for 120 amp hrs at 20hrs it would mean you could take 6 amps @ 12 volts DC (average) out of it for 20 hrs. Watts are Watts so that means if you had a 100% efficient inverter running your heating system when the power goes out you could pull 72 watts (amps x volts 6 x 12 = 72 ) of continuous power out of those 120 amp hr batteries for 20 hrs until they were dead flat. Because heating systems run as they need too, depending on a lot of factors, it is difficult to give an exact number. A good sine wave modern inverters claim to run @ 90% + efficient. Lots of variables to play with. Then you have the issue of power transfer, many more expensive inverters, typically constructed for marine uses, have automatic transfer switches and battery chargers. When power is available they will charge and float the batteries as needed and pass through power and when the power is interrupted they automatically transfer power to the device plugged into it, your heating system. Victron energy makes a good line of inverter chargers. Dollar for dollar generators are typically a better value and will run as long as you can keep gas in them and run them outside. I’m guessing a proper inverter charger with adequate sized deep cycle batteries to allow you to run 20 hours is going to set you back a 2 – 3 thousand dollars. New generator for the heat- less than $1000. I'm sure I left out a few things but that's about it.

Ashley

 

[goatman-68]

I bought a Samlex 1215A charger and a Samlex PST-60S-12A 600 watt continuous (pure sine) wave inverter. For a battery I bought a Optima 55AH deep cycle yellow top battery. This should keep my XXV running for 6 to 8 hours. I am mounting the inverter and charger to an aluminum plate and fastening it to my wall. I do also have a 6500 watt generator if power stays out for a long period of time. I bought the inverter setup just so I don't wake up to a house full of smoke if power goes out during the night, since I have a direct vent setup and no natural draft. I opted for a (pure sine) inverter since, often motors have a hard time with modified sine inverters. With the way my setup will be, the stove will be running through the inverter full time. When doing it this way you need a charger designed for charging a battery under a load. Hope this helps.................

 

[imacman]

Goatman,

what was the total cost of the inverter setup w/ the battery, hardware, wiring, etc?

 

[MCPO]

I know it`s not with your preference but I`m sure a small generator would be a cheaper solution and probably much more usefull especially in the event of an extended outage.

 

[summit]

goatman, have you tried it out yet? I ahve had several customers who have purchased an inverter that was not made for harman stoves, and the said it would not work with their units. I talked to barry at the factory, and he told me some do not work with the stoves that they make.

 

[ducker]

This is what I picked up last winter during that brutal Ice Storm.

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Max-GEN4...f=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1242672053&sr=8-12

I was able to run my pellet (harman p38) , some lights, my 42" plasma TV, freezer, and a couple of other Misc things.

Only problem I had was when it accidentally ran out of gas and stalled... that blew the fuse in the harman... I'll be more careful in the future, and most likely get a power conditioner of some type on the line going to the pellet stove.

 

[Wet1]

I know it`s not with your preference but I`m sure a small generator would be a cheaper solution and probably much more usefull especially in the event of an extended outage.

I have to agree. Small 2 stoke generators can be bought for around $100 to $130 and they a far more (multi)functional than a bank of batteries and an inverter. Batteries are big, expensive, don't last all that long, and will only run a pellet stove so long before they need recharging (do you know how long the power will be out next time???) Inverters are expensive and are pretty inefficient. The cheap gen set can run for days or even weeks if need be and are far more compact and easier on the wallet... not to mention you can use it for any number of things as well.

OTOH, a wood stove might be a better option yet...

 

[ducker]

OTOH, a wood stove might be a better option yet...

ha... yea that's what pissed off my wife during that long outtage last winter... was the fact that we had a wood stove and replaced it!! if we didn't replace it with a pellet stove there wouldn't be an issue!

 

[Wet1]

OTOH, a wood stove might be a better option yet...

ha... yea that's what pissed off my wife during that long outtage last winter... was the fact that we had a wood stove and replaced it!! if we didn't replace it with a pellet stove there wouldn't be an issue!

Pellet stoves certainly have their pros and cons, but after burning pellets for nine years and wood on and off for several times that, I'm just about done with pellets. Between power outages and the crazy inconsistent pellet prices and supply issues, I just cant recommend them to most people anymore... but they do have their place.

With that said, the P38 is an excellent pellet stove if you decide pellets are for you.

 

[lecomte38]

It seems like for the cost a real generator that will run the whole house can be bought used for a little more then an inverter/battery set up.

 

[goatman-68]

Goatman,

what was the total cost of the inverter setup w/ the battery, hardware, wiring, etc?

I have about $380.00 invested in the setup including the battery and everything was new, but I bought the items (right) off Ebay. Retail for just the charger and inverter would have been about $430.00, add the Optima battery at $160.00 and you have close to $600.00, plus wire.............. I can use the inverter for other purposes during the summer storm season also, so for me it will work out good.

 

[goatman-68]

goatman, have you tried it out yet? I ahve had several customers who have purchased an inverter that was not made for harman stoves, and the said it would not work with their units. I talked to barry at the factory, and he told me some do not work with the stoves that they make.

No, I haven't tried it yet, I will get it all put together this spring. I don't see why it wouldn't work with the Harman stoves since it is a (pure sine) inverter, and NOT a modified square wave........ Some motors don't do well with the modified square wave and have exibited odd things like a buzz or just not running up to speed. I don't think the motors last as long running on that type of inverter either. Most of the UPS backup devices for computers use the modified waveform and some will say they have had good results using them.............

 

[kinsmanstoves]

http://www.stovesentry.com/?p=orderpricing

Take a look, these are the ones I sell. I can offer the same pricing plus shipping.

Eric

 

[mark d fellows]

This is what I picked up last winter during that brutal Ice Storm.

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Max-GEN4...f=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1242672053&sr=8-12

I was able to run my pellet (harman p38) , some lights, my 42" plasma TV, freezer, and a couple of other Misc things.

Only problem I had was when it accidentally ran out of gas and stalled... that blew the fuse in the harman... I'll be more careful in the future, and most likely get a power conditioner of some type on the line going to the pellet stove.

Thanks for the informative post with real life experience. Yep, that is the route I have taken, except I added a power line conditioner to the mix. Haven't tried it yet. I am glad to hear you have run your Harman off of that generator. That helps.

I have a champion 3500 watt and an apc 1200 line conditioner.

Mark

 

[Dr_Drum]

http://www.stovesentry.com/?p=orderpricing

Take a look, these are the ones I sell. I can offer the same pricing plus shipping.

Eric

Eric, have you tried one of these out? 1/3 second of switching time doesn't sound like "uninterruptable". I'm not sure if my stove see a power loss it will go into startup mode, or just stay off.
Thanks for any info, Mike -

 

[exoilburner]

If you choose an inverter/generator to feed house circuits (to power your pellet burner) be sure to install a generator isolation switch to prevent unsafe conditions. There is a great discussion, started by "augerowner", on generators, isolation switches and safety at
http://forum.iburncorn.com/viewtopic.php?t=9400&highlight;=

 

[MassPellet]

During last winter's ice storm I purchased the Harman battery backup converter and a large marine battery. Have had to use the setup only once but it worked great.