Does OAK Make Stove Run Colder?

[becasunshine]

I know you guys get a million OAK questions, and now here I come with another one. I tried using the "search" function for this question but I couldn't think of the right word combination to use to get the answer.

It seems to me that when the outside air temperature is cold, my stove's heat output reduces. This is purely anecdotal; I'm not using a thermometer, just my hand in front of the covection tube output.

The colder the outside air, the cooler the stove output. When the outside air temp is in the upper 40's, the stove seems to run much hotter. I can barely hold my hand in front of it. When the temps dip to freezing or below, the air coming out of the stove seems a bit cooler. The output is still plenty hot but it doesn't seem quite as hot when outside temps are freezing or less.

I guess this is somewhat academic; I'm just trying to understand exactly how my stove works so I can set it correctly for varying circumstances. That being said, does it make sense that the outside air temperature can influence the heat output of the stove via the OAK? Colder air in, cooler air out?

Also, I'm thinking about rigging up an output thermometer... I'd like to run down to Northern Tool or Lowe's or Home Depot and simply buy a thermometer of some type. Suggestions?

 

[Czech]

This is a good question! I would think that it would not make a big difference as it is combustion air, but I wonder if the stove body itself may get a bit chilled as the air flows in? One thing of note, cold air is more dense and should burn better if I'm correct. If I could just recall physics class! The point and shoot IR therms are very cool, no pun intended.

 

[sinnian]

To answer your title question simply...... YES. How could it not have an affect? If you are "sucking in" 40* air and outputting 230* air, you are going to use less energy then if your "sucking in" 10* air and outputting 230* air. HOWEVER, without the air in the first place you would not have a very god burn.

 

[Havlat24]

Go start a fire outside in the winter it still burns and is still hot. Also this is the same kind of reasoning that makes people not install OAK's, or fresh air intakes into their fuel burning furnaces.

 

[DannMarr]

It's similar to an auto cold air intake. I installed a cone filter within the engine bay and all it did was draw in hot air from the engine and it did not run as good as the stock set up (Cold air from the front grille of fender wall).

 

[BDPVT]

If your local building code forces you to install outdoor air, you will have no choice, but be aware that it will not reliably improve the performance of your pellet stove or result in higher efficiency. Unless you have a very airtight house, the benefit of providing a supply of outdoor air to the appliance is not supported by research results I have read. It turns out that the most consistently reliable place to take combustion air from is the room where the appliance is installed. It is sometimes assumed that taking air from outside through a duct saves energy because the stove doesn't use up indoor air and cause outdoor air to be drawn in through leaks to replace it. But the heating deficit is so small as to be insignificant. The average air consumption of a wood burning appliance is very small compared to the natural leakage rate of most houses. So the air consumption of a pellet stove is a tiny part of a much larger exchange of air between the house and outdoors. In my drafty old house, it would be just like making another hole for the cold air to leak in.

 

[slls]

The outside air in my stove is preheated, the air box gets really hot.

 

[Arnold]

If your local building code forces you to install outdoor air, you will have no choice, but be aware that it will not reliably improve the performance of your pellet stove or result in higher efficiency. Unless you have a very airtight house, the benefit of providing a supply of outdoor air to the appliance is not supported by research results I have read. It turns out that the most consistently reliable place to take combustion air from is the room where the appliance is installed. It is sometimes assumed that taking air from outside through a duct saves energy because the stove doesn't use up indoor air and cause outdoor air to be drawn in through leaks to replace it. But the heating deficit is so small as to be insignificant. The average air consumption of a wood burning appliance is very small compared to the natural leakage rate of most houses. So the air consumption of a pellet stove is a tiny part of a much larger exchange of air between the house and outdoors. In my drafty old house, it would be just like making another hole for the cold air to leak in.

Why not just cut a 2" hole in the side of your house & stick the exhaust end of your 2" shop vac ( hose connected on the exhaust side of the vac) out the hole & fire up the vac...........Stand out there in 15* weather & feel the warm air blowing from your heated living area on your hands & face.

That's basically what you're doing by not using outside air for combustion..........you're using a fan to suck air you paid to heat out of your house.

 

[becasunshine]

Huh. Mebbe my hand feels colder because the house is colder. Seriously.

Yesterday I was able to hold the house at 72'F. We kept the stove running overnight at the usual settings (not on low.) It dropped into the low to mid 20's. This morning the house temp was at 68'F. I shut the stove down while I ran an errand so it would be cool and ready to clean when I returned. I guess the stove was down for about 2 hours. The house temp was 65'F when I arrived home and the stove was cold. After I went in and out of the house a few times in the process of cleaning/emptying ash bin/loading more pellets the house temp was 64'F.

I fired up the pellet stove and raised the house temp to 66'F and there we stopped. Outside air temp is 36'F, corrected for wind chill it feels like 28'F (according to Weather.com.) I ran the gas furnace for one cycle to help distribute the heat through the house. That brief cycle raised the temp to 67'F.

The stove is slowly building the house temp; our thermostat now reads 68'F. I have a box fan sitting on the floor in front of the stove, pointed at the stove, to aid in convection.

Even though I've been outside I guess I didn't realize that the outside air temp had dropped off to the mid-30's so early in the evening.

I'm currently helping the pellet stove from the other end of the house: there's banana bread baking in the kitchen.

I actually like the OAK; there was never a question about having one installed. I'm just trying to tweak my stove to get the most btu's I can. We try hard not to run the gas furnace at all.

I mentioned this on another thread: the stove is set on an angle in the corner of a room that is also the exterior corner of the house. Both the exhaust vent pipe and the OAK have a short traverse to the outside. The exhaust pipe has one 45' elbow behind the stove and then it's a straight and brief horizontal excursion to the outside of the house. (Makes cleaning the exhaust pipe a breeze! I just take the Shop Vac outside with all the extension wands and vacuum it out as far as the wands will reach- which is all the way up to that elbow.) The OAK has a similarly brief excursion. Air supply and exhaust have never been an issue with this stove!

Right now I've zeroed in on the damper setting in terms of trying to dump as many btu's per pellet into the house as we can.

The short distance to the outside and the abundant supply of combustion air made me wonder if the OAK contributed to a cooler running stove- but even if you said yes, I'd still want that OAK!

Napoleon NPS40 Freestanding Stove
Current settings:
Feed 4
Blower 4
Damper 1

 

[becasunshine]

Slls, is the heated air box a design feature of the Quadrafire stove?

 

[Czech]

Yeah slls, mine preheats too! But due to the directvent tube in a tube vent, I really like that stuff, looks nice too.

 

[BDPVT]

If your local building code forces you to install outdoor air, you will have no choice, but be aware that it will not reliably improve the performance of your pellet stove or result in higher efficiency. Unless you have a very airtight house, the benefit of providing a supply of outdoor air to the appliance is not supported by research results I have read. It turns out that the most consistently reliable place to take combustion air from is the room where the appliance is installed. It is sometimes assumed that taking air from outside through a duct saves energy because the stove doesn't use up indoor air and cause outdoor air to be drawn in through leaks to replace it. But the heating deficit is so small as to be insignificant. The average air consumption of a wood burning appliance is very small compared to the natural leakage rate of most houses. So the air consumption of a pellet stove is a tiny part of a much larger exchange of air between the house and outdoors. In my drafty old house, it would be just like making another hole for the cold air to leak in.

Why not just cut a 2" hole in the side of your house & stick the exhaust end of your 2" shop vac ( hose connected on the exhaust side of the vac) out the hole & fire up the vac...........Stand out there in 15* weather & feel the warm air blowing from your heated living area on your hands & face.

That's basically what you're doing by not using outside air for combustion..........you're using a fan to suck air you paid to heat out of your house.

That is a ridiculous comparison. You obviously don't understand the principles behind air exchange. Inside and outside air pressures will equalize, with or without an OAK. A typical range hood draws several times the cmf of a pellet stove. There is no evidence in numerous studies to suggest that OAK improves efficiency or lowers heating costs. Manufactures or not stupid. If OAK gives them an advantage, they would recommend them, but in reality, they rarely do. Do some research and prove me wrong.

 

[jtakeman]

If your local building code forces you to install outdoor air, you will have no choice, but be aware that it will not reliably improve the performance of your pellet stove or result in higher efficiency. Unless you have a very airtight house, the benefit of providing a supply of outdoor air to the appliance is not supported by research results I have read. It turns out that the most consistently reliable place to take combustion air from is the room where the appliance is installed. It is sometimes assumed that taking air from outside through a duct saves energy because the stove doesn't use up indoor air and cause outdoor air to be drawn in through leaks to replace it. But the heating deficit is so small as to be insignificant. The average air consumption of a wood burning appliance is very small compared to the natural leakage rate of most houses. So the air consumption of a pellet stove is a tiny part of a much larger exchange of air between the house and outdoors. In my drafty old house, it would be just like making another hole for the cold air to leak in.

Why not just cut a 2" hole in the side of your house & stick the exhaust end of your 2" shop vac ( hose connected on the exhaust side of the vac) out the hole & fire up the vac...........Stand out there in 15* weather & feel the warm air blowing from your heated living area on your hands & face.

That's basically what you're doing by not using outside air for combustion..........you're using a fan to suck air you paid to heat out of your house.

That is a ridiculous comparison. You obviously don't understand the principles behind air exchange. Inside and outside air pressures will equalize, with or without an OAK. A typical range hood draws several times the cmf of a pellet stove. There is no evidence in numerous studies to suggest that OAK improves efficiency or lowers heating costs. Manufactures or not stupid. If OAK gives them an advantage, they would recommend them, but in reality, they rarely do. Do some research and prove me wrong.

Here goes the OAK debate again. Guys we beat this to death already. Someone will have to do some testing to make us believe or not believe what is best. Facts and numbers. There are points for both sides to the story. Yes I OAK(sounds like I need AA or something). and I see no issue's. Or house draft either(the reason I OAK'ed). My stove loves the fresh cool air. I have no burn issue's.

Maybe one of these days I will do it. But I need to know the guide lines of both sides. And what needs to be tested. Instead of haggling about it. Can we agree to some testing?

Carry on!
jay

 

[HEMI]

If your local building code forces you to install outdoor air, you will have no choice, but be aware that it will not reliably improve the performance of your pellet stove or result in higher efficiency. Unless you have a very airtight house, the benefit of providing a supply of outdoor air to the appliance is not supported by research results I have read. It turns out that the most consistently reliable place to take combustion air from is the room where the appliance is installed. It is sometimes assumed that taking air from outside through a duct saves energy because the stove doesn't use up indoor air and cause outdoor air to be drawn in through leaks to replace it. But the heating deficit is so small as to be insignificant. The average air consumption of a wood burning appliance is very small compared to the natural leakage rate of most houses. So the air consumption of a pellet stove is a tiny part of a much larger exchange of air between the house and outdoors. In my drafty old house, it would be just like making another hole for the cold air to leak in.

Why not just cut a 2" hole in the side of your house & stick the exhaust end of your 2" shop vac ( hose connected on the exhaust side of the vac) out the hole & fire up the vac...........Stand out there in 15* weather & feel the warm air blowing from your heated living area on your hands & face.

That's basically what you're doing by not using outside air for combustion..........you're using a fan to suck air you paid to heat out of your house.

That is a ridiculous comparison. You obviously don't understand the principles behind air exchange. Inside and outside air pressures will equalize, with or without an OAK. A typical range hood draws several times the cmf of a pellet stove. There is no evidence in numerous studies to suggest that OAK improves efficiency or lowers heating costs. Manufactures or not stupid. If OAK gives them an advantage, they would recommend them, but in reality, they rarely do. Do some research and prove me wrong.

Here goes the OAK debate again. Guys we beat this to death already. Someone will have to do some testing to make us believe or not believe what is best. Facts and numbers. There are points for both sides to the story. Yes I OAK(sounds like I need AA or something). and I see no issue's. Or house draft either(the reason I OAK'ed). My stove loves the fresh cool air. I have no burn issue's.

Maybe one of these days I will do it. But I need to know the guide lines of both sides. And what needs to be tested. Instead of haggling about it. Can we agree to some testing?

Carry on!
jay

i agree to have you do the testing jay....LOL, hey thats because ya did such a good job on the pellet comparison

 

[jtakeman]

If your local building code forces you to install outdoor air, you will have no choice, but be aware that it will not reliably improve the performance of your pellet stove or result in higher efficiency. Unless you have a very airtight house, the benefit of providing a supply of outdoor air to the appliance is not supported by research results I have read. It turns out that the most consistently reliable place to take combustion air from is the room where the appliance is installed. It is sometimes assumed that taking air from outside through a duct saves energy because the stove doesn't use up indoor air and cause outdoor air to be drawn in through leaks to replace it. But the heating deficit is so small as to be insignificant. The average air consumption of a wood burning appliance is very small compared to the natural leakage rate of most houses. So the air consumption of a pellet stove is a tiny part of a much larger exchange of air between the house and outdoors. In my drafty old house, it would be just like making another hole for the cold air to leak in.

Why not just cut a 2" hole in the side of your house & stick the exhaust end of your 2" shop vac ( hose connected on the exhaust side of the vac) out the hole & fire up the vac...........Stand out there in 15* weather & feel the warm air blowing from your heated living area on your hands & face.

That's basically what you're doing by not using outside air for combustion..........you're using a fan to suck air you paid to heat out of your house.

That is a ridiculous comparison. You obviously don't understand the principles behind air exchange. Inside and outside air pressures will equalize, with or without an OAK. A typical range hood draws several times the cmf of a pellet stove. There is no evidence in numerous studies to suggest that OAK improves efficiency or lowers heating costs. Manufactures or not stupid. If OAK gives them an advantage, they would recommend them, but in reality, they rarely do. Do some research and prove me wrong.

Here goes the OAK debate again. Guys we beat this to death already. Someone will have to do some testing to make us believe or not believe what is best. Facts and numbers. There are points for both sides to the story. Yes I OAK(sounds like I need AA or something). and I see no issue's. Or house draft either(the reason I OAK'ed). My stove loves the fresh cool air. I have no burn issue's.

Maybe one of these days I will do it. But I need to know the guide lines of both sides. And what needs to be tested. Instead of haggling about it. Can we agree to some testing?

Carry on!
jay

i agree to have you do the testing jay....LOL, hey thats because ya did such a good job on the pellet comparison

Thanks Hemi, If we can figure out what we all think needs to be done I will take a swing at it. Wait till its like -10°F below. Frost on the inside of the OAK tubing cold. Heck I have most of the tools already. Been meaning to put a thermalcouple in my vent tee cap.

What else would we need?

 

[HEMI]

If your local building code forces you to install outdoor air, you will have no choice, but be aware that it will not reliably improve the performance of your pellet stove or result in higher efficiency. Unless you have a very airtight house, the benefit of providing a supply of outdoor air to the appliance is not supported by research results I have read. It turns out that the most consistently reliable place to take combustion air from is the room where the appliance is installed. It is sometimes assumed that taking air from outside through a duct saves energy because the stove doesn't use up indoor air and cause outdoor air to be drawn in through leaks to replace it. But the heating deficit is so small as to be insignificant. The average air consumption of a wood burning appliance is very small compared to the natural leakage rate of most houses. So the air consumption of a pellet stove is a tiny part of a much larger exchange of air between the house and outdoors. In my drafty old house, it would be just like making another hole for the cold air to leak in.

Why not just cut a 2" hole in the side of your house & stick the exhaust end of your 2" shop vac ( hose connected on the exhaust side of the vac) out the hole & fire up the vac...........Stand out there in 15* weather & feel the warm air blowing from your heated living area on your hands & face.

That's basically what you're doing by not using outside air for combustion..........you're using a fan to suck air you paid to heat out of your house.

That is a ridiculous comparison. You obviously don't understand the principles behind air exchange. Inside and outside air pressures will equalize, with or without an OAK. A typical range hood draws several times the cmf of a pellet stove. There is no evidence in numerous studies to suggest that OAK improves efficiency or lowers heating costs. Manufactures or not stupid. If OAK gives them an advantage, they would recommend them, but in reality, they rarely do. Do some research and prove me wrong.

Here goes the OAK debate again. Guys we beat this to death already. Someone will have to do some testing to make us believe or not believe what is best. Facts and numbers. There are points for both sides to the story. Yes I OAK(sounds like I need AA or something). and I see no issue's. Or house draft either(the reason I OAK'ed). My stove loves the fresh cool air. I have no burn issue's.

Maybe one of these days I will do it. But I need to know the guide lines of both sides. And what needs to be tested. Instead of haggling about it. Can we agree to some testing?

Carry on!
jay

i agree to have you do the testing jay....LOL, hey thats because ya did such a good job on the pellet comparison

Thanks Hemi, If we can figure out what we all think needs to be done I will take a swing at it. Wait till its like -10°F below. Frost on the inside of the OAK tubing cold. Heck I have most of the tools already. Been meaning to put a thermalcouple in my vent tee cap.

What else would we need?

I'm not really to familiar with a whole lot yet (gettin there)...pretty much a spectator on alot of this.

 

[becasunshine]

Sorry, guys, sorry- didn't mean to poke at the fire. Heh. (One really shouldn't have to poke a pellet stove fire. I'm just sayin'.)

Anyway, for our purposes, I don't think we were given a choice about the OAK. We had the stove professionally installed by the shop from whence it came. I inquired about an OAK and I was told that we were getting one. Husband and I just consulted; we cannot remember whether we were told that it was code or whether we were told that this stove shop installs OAKs routinely. All we remember is that we *thought* that we wanted one, based on our pre-purchase reading, but we were willing to hear differing opinions from the dealer. When we asked the dealer we were told that we were getting an OAK and we were happy.

As far as pellet stove draw vs. exhaust fans, I am notorious about my stingy use of exhaust fans when we are running any sort of heating or cooling plant. I'll run it to get rid of excess steam or excess cooking aromas etc but as soon as the air has cleared the fan is off. I've had a couple of different people tell me that exhaust fans, even wimpy ones, pull a lot of conditioned air out of the house.

So mebbe the OAK is a good option for me, re: fresh air for the stove.

OH- one more thing, then I'll wait for more info- the pellet stove with the OAK really saved us during a major renovation last year. We tore out a kitchen and a laundry room, down to the subfloor, to the exterior brick walls and up into the attic in some places. Drafty is an understatement.

If we'd had to rely on the gas furnace, my guess is that the gas furnace would have sucked all of that cold, dusty air in through the breaches in the walls, ceiling and floor. It also would have pulled the plaster dust through the house and into the return.

The pellet stove, with its OAK, pulled air in through the OAK and pushed heated air out at the other end of the house.

The temperature gradient was heinous but at least we had some heat from a relatively contained source.

 

[jtakeman]

If your local building code forces you to install outdoor air, you will have no choice, but be aware that it will not reliably improve the performance of your pellet stove or result in higher efficiency. Unless you have a very airtight house, the benefit of providing a supply of outdoor air to the appliance is not supported by research results I have read. It turns out that the most consistently reliable place to take combustion air from is the room where the appliance is installed. It is sometimes assumed that taking air from outside through a duct saves energy because the stove doesn't use up indoor air and cause outdoor air to be drawn in through leaks to replace it. But the heating deficit is so small as to be insignificant. The average air consumption of a wood burning appliance is very small compared to the natural leakage rate of most houses. So the air consumption of a pellet stove is a tiny part of a much larger exchange of air between the house and outdoors. In my drafty old house, it would be just like making another hole for the cold air to leak in.

Why not just cut a 2" hole in the side of your house & stick the exhaust end of your 2" shop vac ( hose connected on the exhaust side of the vac) out the hole & fire up the vac...........Stand out there in 15* weather & feel the warm air blowing from your heated living area on your hands & face.

That's basically what you're doing by not using outside air for combustion..........you're using a fan to suck air you paid to heat out of your house.

That is a ridiculous comparison. You obviously don't understand the principles behind air exchange. Inside and outside air pressures will equalize, with or without an OAK. A typical range hood draws several times the cmf of a pellet stove. There is no evidence in numerous studies to suggest that OAK improves efficiency or lowers heating costs. Manufactures or not stupid. If OAK gives them an advantage, they would recommend them, but in reality, they rarely do. Do some research and prove me wrong.

Here goes the OAK debate again. Guys we beat this to death already. Someone will have to do some testing to make us believe or not believe what is best. Facts and numbers. There are points for both sides to the story. Yes I OAK(sounds like I need AA or something). and I see no issue's. Or house draft either(the reason I OAK'ed). My stove loves the fresh cool air. I have no burn issue's.

Maybe one of these days I will do it. But I need to know the guide lines of both sides. And what needs to be tested. Instead of haggling about it. Can we agree to some testing?

Carry on!
jay

i agree to have you do the testing jay....LOL, hey thats because ya did such a good job on the pellet comparison

Thanks Hemi, If we can figure out what we all think needs to be done I will take a swing at it. Wait till its like -10°F below. Frost on the inside of the OAK tubing cold. Heck I have most of the tools already. Been meaning to put a thermalcouple in my vent tee cap.

What else would we need?

I'm not really to familiar with a whole lot yet (gettin there)...pretty much a spectator on alot of this.

Hemi, Your are learning quickly and doing great. The questions were really for the one haggling about it. Guess I lost them. I got some pellets to check out. Just got a tip. I will fill you in later!

 

[littlesmokey]

If your local building code forces you to install outdoor air, you will have no choice, but be aware that it will not reliably improve the performance of your pellet stove or result in higher efficiency. Unless you have a very airtight house, the benefit of providing a supply of outdoor air to the appliance is not supported by research results I have read. It turns out that the most consistently reliable place to take combustion air from is the room where the appliance is installed. It is sometimes assumed that taking air from outside through a duct saves energy because the stove doesn't use up indoor air and cause outdoor air to be drawn in through leaks to replace it. But the heating deficit is so small as to be insignificant. The average air consumption of a wood burning appliance is very small compared to the natural leakage rate of most houses. So the air consumption of a pellet stove is a tiny part of a much larger exchange of air between the house and outdoors. In my drafty old house, it would be just like making another hole for the cold air to leak in.

Why not just cut a 2" hole in the side of your house & stick the exhaust end of your 2" shop vac ( hose connected on the exhaust side of the vac) out the hole & fire up the vac...........Stand out there in 15* weather & feel the warm air blowing from your heated living area on your hands & face.

That's basically what you're doing by not using outside air for combustion..........you're using a fan to suck air you paid to heat out of your house.

That is a ridiculous comparison. You obviously don't understand the principles behind air exchange. Inside and outside air pressures will equalize, with or without an OAK. A typical range hood draws several times the cmf of a pellet stove. There is no evidence in numerous studies to suggest that OAK improves efficiency or lowers heating costs. Manufactures or not stupid. If OAK gives them an advantage, they would recommend them, but in reality, they rarely do. Do some research and prove me wrong.

An HVAC friend of mine spent a couple hours talking about pellet stoves and how they work. He does commercial work and has little experience with residential applications but did say, the CFM volume moved through the stove for combustion is barely enough to push the air out the vent. It appears to him that the firing is necessary to get good air movement. He compared it to powerventing on gas/oil burners, and the new water heaters. Says they are a pain in the buttimous. He's also an amateur blacksmith. Got a crazy idea to add a 5hp shopvac blower to a stove and make a small forge. I'm looking for an old manual stove for him to convert, I let you know how it works.

The silliness of requiring an OAK gets absurd on this site. You lose more heat through using the doors during a day, let alone the kitchen vent or bathe vent. Even the Furnace will draw three to four times the air a pellet stove draws, even cycling at low temp.

If your stove requires it, or you have a supertight house and have negative air issues, or you have knicker twists you can't work out get an OAK or custom build one. If you are like the rest of us, especially all of us who have used those archaic manual stoves (that are still efficiently operating) soon to be called antiques can get by and safely burn without the extra expense.

If you respond to my post, don't expect me to reply, I am done with this subject.

 

[tjnamtiw]

OH, Please Almighty One, make OAK debate a sticky so we don't have to keep reading these same comments over and over When I read these threads, it sounds like the Republicans and Democrats debating whether we should spend 2.2 million dollars to study the sex life of rats (in today's Omnibus Bill). (Not sure of the amount).....

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

OH, Please Almighty One, make OAK debate a sticky so we don't have to keep reading these same comments over and over When I read these threads, it sounds like the Republicans and Democrats debating whether we should spend 2.2 million dollars to study the sex life of rats (in today's Omnibus Bill). (Not sure of the amount).....

It would make far more sense to study the sex life of wood pellets. Someone call Pelosi before it is too late.

Just don't try to enforce one baby pellet per pellet couple as it would severely restrict supply leading to pellet piglet deaths.

 

[jtakeman]

OH, Please Almighty One, make OAK debate a sticky so we don't have to keep reading these same comments over and over When I read these threads, it sounds like the Republicans and Democrats debating whether we should spend 2.2 million dollars to study the sex life of rats (in today's Omnibus Bill). (Not sure of the amount).....

It would make far more sense to study the sex life of wood pellets. Someone call Pelosi before it is too late.

Just don't try to enforce one baby pellet per pellet couple as it would severely restrict supply leading to pellet piglet deaths.

I would rather debate whats the next brand of beer I should try. Almost out of my sammy winters. No politics please. Gotta be something better to dabate here.

SmokeyTheBear, I only have one piglet. Lets me spend the little I have on him. I could not afford 2 of them. He's like me. He wants more than he can carry. Guess he's see's dad going after the pellets"Gotta get a bigger truck and some more storage"!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

OH, Please Almighty One, make OAK debate a sticky so we don't have to keep reading these same comments over and over When I read these threads, it sounds like the Republicans and Democrats debating whether we should spend 2.2 million dollars to study the sex life of rats (in today's Omnibus Bill). (Not sure of the amount).....

It would make far more sense to study the sex life of wood pellets. Someone call Pelosi before it is too late.

Just don't try to enforce one baby pellet per pellet couple as it would severely restrict supply leading to pellet piglet deaths.

I would rather debate whats the next brand of beer I should try. Almost out of my sammy winters. No politics please. Gotta be something better to dabate here.

SmokeyTheBear, I only have one piglet. Lets me spend the little I have on him. I could not afford 2 of them. He's like me. He wants more than he can carry. Guess he's see's dad going after the pellets"Gotta get a bigger truck and some more storage"!

Sammy winters, Jay you've got to upgrade. You might try some Pleasant Mountain Porter or HSA.

 

[jtakeman]

OH, Please Almighty One, make OAK debate a sticky so we don't have to keep reading these same comments over and over When I read these threads, it sounds like the Republicans and Democrats debating whether we should spend 2.2 million dollars to study the sex life of rats (in today's Omnibus Bill). (Not sure of the amount).....

It would make far more sense to study the sex life of wood pellets. Someone call Pelosi before it is too late.

Just don't try to enforce one baby pellet per pellet couple as it would severely restrict supply leading to pellet piglet deaths.

I would rather debate whats the next brand of beer I should try. Almost out of my sammy winters. No politics please. Gotta be something better to dabate here.

SmokeyTheBear, I only have one piglet. Lets me spend the little I have on him. I could not afford 2 of them. He's like me. He wants more than he can carry. Guess he's see's dad going after the pellets"Gotta get a bigger truck and some more storage"!

Sammy winters, Jay you've got to upgrade. You might try some Pleasant Mountain Porter or HSA.

Pleasant Mountain Porter even sounds good. I will have to look out for it around here. Now we have a debate!

Sorry to hijack-But were talking about beer!

 

[HEMI]

OH, Please Almighty One, make OAK debate a sticky so we don't have to keep reading these same comments over and over When I read these threads, it sounds like the Republicans and Democrats debating whether we should spend 2.2 million dollars to study the sex life of rats (in today's Omnibus Bill). (Not sure of the amount).....

It would make far more sense to study the sex life of wood pellets. Someone call Pelosi before it is too late.

Just don't try to enforce one baby pellet per pellet couple as it would severely restrict supply leading to pellet piglet deaths.

I would rather debate whats the next brand of beer I should try. Almost out of my sammy winters. No politics please. Gotta be something better to dabate here.

SmokeyTheBear, I only have one piglet. Lets me spend the little I have on him. I could not afford 2 of them. He's like me. He wants more than he can carry. Guess he's see's dad going after the pellets"Gotta get a bigger truck and some more storage"!

Sammy winters, Jay you've got to upgrade. You might try some Pleasant Mountain Porter or HSA.

Pleasant Mountain Porter even sounds good. I will have to look out for it around here. Now we have a debate!

Sorry to hijack-But were talking about beer!

may as well throw in my 2 then.....can't get it in CT but if ya ever see it try Yuengling beer, i'm sure some of the NEW YORK boys have had it, i have to go past danbury to th NY line and get it