Does the stove top steamer really do anything?

[MrKenmore]

I had been using a stove top cast iron steamer on my Oslo since I got it. Then I kinda asked myself "Is it really doing anything and is it worth it?" My stove is in a sunken room so the heat/air dissipates nicely to the rest of the house. Could the steamer possibly be giving me enough moisture in the air to make a difference? I stopped using it and the air seems the same.

Any thoughts?

 

[Corey]

It will be hard to say in your specific conditions. The best way to tell would be to monitor how much water you put in the steamer in a given day...any amount you put in is going into the air. So if you only put in a cup full each day, that is not very much. If it is on the order of a gallon, that is a moderate amount. A hydrometer (humidity meter) will also give some indication. From what we have discussed here, the cheap ones aren't terribly accurate, but they would be good enough to tell you the humidity is higher or lower.

Lastly - this may not apply in all cases, but for me - I looked at steamers, but being i have an insert with no direct contact with the firebox surface, they just don't seem to put out much unless they are in direct contact with the hot firebox. My solution was to substitute surface area for heat. I now use three 9" round pyrex pie pans. That gives almost 200 square inches of evaporative surface - combined with some airflow and I go through about a gallon and a half of water a day under full fire.

You think you need to add more humidity, you may search around some, we've had some good posts on alternate methods to add indoor humidity, too.

Corey

 

[begreen]

We go through about 1.5gal a day when the stove is really cooking. There's an older, 6 qt. pot on the stovetop that works pretty well. It does show up on the humidty meter, not a huge change, but maybe 5-10%. I agree with Corey, except for the cheap humidity meters. We have one that has barely budged most of the winter. I don't think they are very reliable. Now we use the Davis unit which seems to track it quite closely

 

[zzr7ky]

Hi -

I'm with BeGreen about 1.5 to 2 gallons per day in the coldest/windiest weather. Yes, the wood furniture and kids seem to benifit from it. I use a large pot. Not pretty but it's a 2-3 fill-up per day fix, easy to manage.

ATB,
Mike P

 

[mtarbert]

Just remember guys: Moist air is lighter that dry air. Measurments should be made at diffrent hights

 

[jtp10181]

I don't have a wood stove myself so I have an electric humidifier... fill it maybe once a day in the middle of winter, its got a few gallon tank. No one has mentioned this, is there something I am missing?

 

[begreen]

Nah, this is a woodstove forum. We create steam with fire. The humidfiers belong over at BI with them nimby sissies. (J/K) ;-)

 

[Corey]

Just remember guys: Moist air is lighter that dry air. Measurments should be made at diffrent hights

Ahhh, yes, a little known, oft forgot fact from deep within the old physics book. Good point! Like temperature, humidity will vary at different locations around the house.

Corey

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I don't have a wood stove myself so I have an electric humidifier... fill it maybe once a day in the middle of winter, its got a few gallon tank. No one has mentioned this, is there something I am missing?

They work, I have 3 of them, but they all require electricity that the stove top pot doesn't, require more maintenance like cleaning and new filters, and they make noise.

That being said, I always have a 3 gallon one running, and turn the two others when needed.

Matt

 

[K31Scout]

We lose a gallon a day in the stainless steel stock pot on top of the stove. Another 3 gallons on average in the Holmes humidifier and it still hovers about 25% at eye level. It's warmed up enough that we can crack the bedroom window to get some real air at night. The steamer you have helps but I think I'd need quite a few of them.

This is my first winter with a woodstove. I still love it but I'm seriously ready for spring and no 24hr fires!

 

[Corie]

Stupid question.


Why would moist air be lighter than dry air? It would seem to me (On 2 hours of sleep and jet lagged like no other), that since water is denser than air, air saturated with water should be heavier?

 

[begreen]

I believe it's because the molecular mass of Oxygen is more than Oxygen + 2 molecules of Hydrogen.

 

[Corie]

Yeah, but air is primarily not oxygen, but nitrogen.



Oxygen = 16.00 g/mol

Nitrogen = 14.01 g/mol

Hydrogen = 1.0079 g/mol

 

[Andre B.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_of_air
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/density-air-d_680.html

And while this one is not directly comparable, the steam in the balloon is hotter then the air around it, it's just neat.
http://flyingkettle.com/

 

[Rhone]

I think they're too small, have to be filled several times/day and have to be constantly monitored. If you don't monitor it and the water all evaporates (happened to me all the time), the minerals in it do not and those minerals start to burn and it smells something awful.

I don't like them, if you do get one make sure you get one that's easy to clean, either ceramic or one that's enameled. I assume if you have a lot of minerals in your water (or hate the small amount they can hold) you don't want one. The stink, how fast it gets dirty, how often they have to be refilled, and the cleaning of the burnt minerals will have you out and buying a plug in humidifier with several gallons of storage in no time.

 

[Corey]

Yeah, but air is primarily not oxygen, but nitrogen.



Oxygen = 16.00 g/mol

Nitrogen = 14.01 g/mol

Hydrogen = 1.0079 g/mol

Well, more like diatomic molecules of oxygen and nitrogen

02 = ~32g/mol

N2 = ~28g/mol

Then you have water @ 18g/mol.

So just looking eyeballing that, it wouldn't be a big surprise if adding more water made the air less dense. There are several other factors that go into the equation, such as partial pressures, gas law, temperature, bla bla bla. But the original statement is true. It is spelled out pretty well at:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/density-air-d_680.html (we have this link above)

It is a pretty good 'gotcha' fact, though. Seems contrary to what you would expect, but we are used to dealing with water as a dense liquid and air as an invisible vapor, usually not the other way around.

Corey

 

[Corie]

haha good deal.


Very very interesting to know that.



I'm still recovering from the weekend btw, haha.

 

[Andre B.]

It is a pretty good 'gotcha' fact, though. Seems contrary to what you would expect, but we are used to dealing with water as a dense liquid and air as an invisible vapor, usually not the other way around.

Another good one (actually relevant to stove and chimney design ) is the viscosity of air, and I believe most gases, increases with temperature.

I guess the density of steam fits also since it is a primary product of combustion.

 

[mikeathens]

Yeah, but air is primarily not oxygen, but nitrogen.



Oxygen = 16.00 g/mol

Nitrogen = 14.01 g/mol

Hydrogen = 1.0079 g/mol

Well, more like diatomic molecules of oxygen and nitrogen

02 = ~32g/mol

N2 = ~28g/mol

Then you have water @ 18g/mol.

So just looking eyeballing that, it wouldn't be a big surprise if adding more water made the air less dense. There are several other factors that go into the equation, such as partial pressures, gas law, temperature, bla bla bla. But the original statement is true. It is spelled out pretty well at:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/density-air-d_680.html (we have this link above)

It is a pretty good 'gotcha' fact, though. Seems contrary to what you would expect, but we are used to dealing with water as a dense liquid and air as an invisible vapor, usually not the other way around.

Corey

What is this? Hearth.com or Nerd.com???

 

[Corie]

When you've got me, its NERD.COM!! hahah

 

[TruePatriot]

I guess Mike from Athens is kidding, when he says this, given that he put a smiley face in it:

cozy heat for my feet - 19 March 2007 04:26 PM

Corie - 19 March 2007 01:27 PM
Yeah, but air is primarily not oxygen, but nitrogen.



Oxygen = 16.00 g/mol

Nitrogen = 14.01 g/mol

Hydrogen = 1.0079 g/mol

Well, more like diatomic molecules of oxygen and nitrogen

02 = ~32g/mol

N2 = ~28g/mol

Then you have water @ 18g/mol.

So just looking eyeballing that, it wouldn’t be a big surprise if adding more water made the air less dense. There are several other factors that go into the equation, such as partial pressures, gas law, temperature, bla bla bla. But the original statement is true. It is spelled out pretty well at:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/density-air-d_680.html (we have this link above)

It is a pretty good ‘gotcha’ fact, though. Seems contrary to what you would expect, but we are used to dealing with water as a dense liquid and air as an invisible vapor, usually not the other way around.

Corey

What is this? Hearth.com or Nerd.com??? ;-)

So this is not meant as an attack. :cheese:

But I, for one, appreciate learning things, and it's the main reason I come here--despite the peerless "comaraderie"--LOL

For example, I was totally blindsided to learn the moist air is heavier than dry air. I was sure that was a mistatement, until I read the supplied links.

So thank you for the discussion--perhaps if knowledge wasn't negatively associated with being "uncool," or "nerdy," in American culture, there'd be more of an emphasis on quality in design and engineering, and our domestic auto industry would be as successful as that of the Japanese, you know? As it is, I think both Ford and GM had losses in the BILLIONS last quarter, Chrysler is on the block (or sold already?) and Toyota is, I believe, the most profitable automaker.

I would imagine that those "nerds" are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[DriftWood]

Don't forget heat when thinking about stove top steamers.Did the equasions take account for heat in the air..

 

[mikeathens]

Yah, trupatriot, I was kidding...probably because I am a bigger nerd than most. I just thought it was funny all of the discussion on molecular weights and how it is that we come to the conclusions that we do on here. It was funny to me to see other people having the type of discussion that I find myself in on an almost daily basis. Hearth.com is definitely my type of community! I have noticed that there is a mix of individuals with a wide range of opinions, but almost everyone is courteous and open to others' thoughts here. too. There is a lot to be learned around here!