Dog House Air Question

edyit

Minister of Fire
Nov 30, 2014
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Wilmington NY
I've gotten a couple burns in the new Madison we installed and so far so good. Really liking the AAS, the big door glass has an amazing view of the secondaries and I'm betting that when loaded full this thing will pound out some heat.

I'm hoping that someone that has the same stove, or another stove with a dog house air inlet can help me out with a couple quick questions. Can I put wood over the dog house? the dog house inlet on this stove sits in a full 4" fire brick from the door. Would putting wood over this cause a problem? If so then that would really lower the size of the fire box and mean I would have to load EW instead of NS which i greatly prefer when going for full loads.
 

begreen

Mooderator
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Nov 18, 2005
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It's been a couple years since I've looked inside this stove. I seem to recall the floor having a one brick wide shelf at the front. Is the doghouse air hole located there? Maybe post a picture for reference. The main concern would be blocking the doghouse air hole. I'd probably go ahead and load it normally N/S. On reloads maybe push the ash away from the doghouse hole? If draft is strong that may not be an issue anyhow. There may be plenty of air pulled into the fire to get a complete burn.
The manual says this:
Ash should not be allowed to accumulate in the stove to the point that it covers the dog box hole.
 

edyit

Minister of Fire
Nov 30, 2014
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Wilmington NY
yes the doghouse air is located at the middle edge of the brick shelf you are talking about. i'll have to wait for the fire to go out and cool before i can get some pics up.
 

edyit

Minister of Fire
Nov 30, 2014
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doghouse.jpg 20171030_063414.jpg

the blue circle is where the air enters, the bigger pic shows how far in it is.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
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Would you like to load n/s so that the front edge of your splits lie up on that shelf. That's what I would do and I think the doghouse air would then blow right under the load and work great.

There is no rule that says would must not be stacked above the air hole is there.
 

edyit

Minister of Fire
Nov 30, 2014
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There is no rule that says would must not be stacked above the air hole is there.
not that i could see in the manual anywhere. but this is the first stove i've had with a doghouse air inlet. iirc you have one on your NC30, i'm just not sure if it sticks in as far on this model.
 
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Highbeam

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not that i could see in the manual anywhere. but this is the first stove i've had with a doghouse air inlet. iirc you have one on your NC30, i'm just not sure if it sticks in as far on this model.
On the NC30 the doghouse is very close to the glass. Few inches maybe? It sticks up in a goofy way but since it is so far towards the opening it is not in the way of placing a nice stack of N/S firewood floor to ceiling. Also, the NC30 is very deep and regular 16" splits of firewood leave plenty of space front and back. I don't take advantage of the depth by cutting special wood, all is 16" long for a normal stove.
 

begreen

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View attachment 202019 View attachment 202020

the blue circle is where the air enters, the bigger pic shows how far in it is.
Yes, that's the way I recall it. I remember discussing this unusual design with England reps at the HPBA show when the stove was introduced. The function appears to be to introduce air under the front of the firebed. I agree with Highbeam, go ahead and load it N/S.
 

VirginiaIron

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Dec 19, 2013
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The following information was taken from page 18 this Englander document located here

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://pdf.lowes.com/operatingguides/794909501514_oper.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiR0I2o6pjXAhXEdSYKHZ8wCRsQFggmMAA&usg=AOvVaw2-gSgBzaGeRcX-vP7M1nJv



"Combustion air is delivered to the stove at two locations: The majority of the primary combustion
air enters the firebox via the air‐wash system which keeps the glass clean and feeds the primary
combustion flames on the top surfaces of the wood; some primary combustion air is feed into the
coal bed via the dog box hole in the bottom, front box of the stove. (This air is supplied from
under the unit.) Every effort must be taken to maintain the area in front of this hole free of ash."


"When loading the stove for a long term burn, it is most useful to rake a “v” in the center of the
coal bed, to allow the primary air bleed hole to push air all the way to the rear of the unit."
 
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yooper08

Minister of Fire
Jan 4, 2016
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That shelf on my stove is definitely not that big, nor is it surrounded by brick, just a metal shelf on both sides of the inlet. Sometimes my splits are a tad bit too long to fit on the floor without resting on the shelf. On reloads I just push coals and ash to either side of it so there's a channel for the air.

Here's the real question that I've always wondered and have yet to find the answer to - when and why did someone call this part the dog house/box?
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
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That shelf on my stove is definitely not that big, nor is it surrounded by brick, just a metal shelf on both sides of the inlet. Sometimes my splits are a tad bit too long to fit on the floor without resting on the shelf. On reloads I just push coals and ash to either side of it so there's a channel for the air.

Here's the real question that I've always wondered and have yet to find the answer to - when and why did someone call this part the dog house/box?
It's a boxy bulge with a hole in it. Kinda like a doghouse.
 

Seasoned Oak

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Oct 17, 2008
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yes the doghouse air is located at the middle edge of the brick shelf you are talking about. i'll have to wait for the fire to go out and cool before i can get some pics up.
I have the 2400SF version. I just load the wood right on top of the dog house ,but not in back of it to cover the hole. If the wood is on top the air can get under the whole center right to the back in most cases.
 

Seasoned Oak

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The manual is not that clear as to placing the fire bricks. There is a quarter inch opening on the side of that front shelf ,and the manual shows the fire brick right up tight against the sides ,covering the gap. I emailed Englander but never heard back. So i cut the fire bricks the same way as they show it in the manual.
 
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Seasoned Oak

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edyit

Minister of Fire
Nov 30, 2014
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Wilmington NY
tried a small load today of 3 splits loaded NS centered right over the doghouse. Wood is cut to ~18 inch lengths and it seemed to be alright. Still had about an inch or more of clearance from the wood to the glass and it stayed clear. It was probably nothing to be overly concerned about but hey, the only stupid question is one you don't ask right.
 
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jwfirebird

Feeling the Heat
Sep 18, 2017
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western ny
ive been loading it around it, like Lincoln log cabin.
like mentioned on reloads I push the ashes back away from it
 

Michael Sean

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Jul 3, 2017
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What kind of burns times are you all getting? It doesn’t seem to matter how many splits I put in the stove after 3 hours it’s reduced coals. That’s with me turning the air all the way down.
 

edyit

Minister of Fire
Nov 30, 2014
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define burn time. for me its from when i load it to when i need to reload it to keep up with heat demand. so far that has been 8+ hours on partial loads, but this is still mild weather, the real cold hasn't set in yet. with 1/2 loads (3-4 splits) i still have enough coals to get the next load going after 8 hours, i have to keep the door cracked open to get the draft to coax it but no paper and a lighter.
 

Highbeam

Minister of Fire
Dec 28, 2006
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What kind of burns times are you all getting? It doesn’t seem to matter how many splits I put in the stove after 3 hours it’s reduced coals. That’s with me turning the air all the way down.
In the non-cat I get three hours from a full load but I do aim to keep the stove at 700 and I have a blower on it. Just some smallish coals and ash in a rapidly cooling stove at that point. In my opinion the maximum burn time has absolutely nothing to do with the heat load of the home. That's ridiculous. Maximum burn time is a performance specification of the stove and the stove doesn't know what your heat load is! It's like the maximum speed of a car.

Your question begs for some more specifics though. Such as, from first match in a cold stove to when the stove top drops back below 200 while burning 20% MC oak with a 15' chimney. That should be pretty repeatable if you can find someone with the same situation.

I have been pretty unimpressed with the rate at which the big non-cat can gobble wood.
 

yooper08

Minister of Fire
Jan 4, 2016
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South Lyon, MI
What kind of burns times are you all getting? It doesn’t seem to matter how many splits I put in the stove after 3 hours it’s reduced coals. That’s with me turning the air all the way down.
I can get 4 hours with just 3-4 splits, but that's from lighting to coals in order to relight the next load. I just ran a full load last night of ash, put it in at 9:30, had coals to relight at 8:30.

All depends.
 

edyit

Minister of Fire
Nov 30, 2014
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I haven't ran a full load yet so I can't say how long it will get.
 

Michael Sean

Member
Jul 3, 2017
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Kentucky
I can load the stove with 5 decent splits on a bed of coals about 830 pm and by 2 am the stove is about 200 and the house is cooling down. Our house is a 1400 sq ft polebarn house with 2x6 walls and blown in insulation.
 

Michael Sean

Member
Jul 3, 2017
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Kentucky
It’s the smaller englander Madison. 16 ft straight chimney, Double wall stove pipe to ceiling, then into class A the rest of the way.

I run the stove with the air pretty much shut down all the way once it’s up to temp. Just enough so that the wood is bearly burning and the secondaries are rolling. Wood moisture is 18% checked with a moisture meter on a fresh split.