Don’t kill yourself (literally) trying to be energy efficient

NoGoodAtScreenNames Posted By NoGoodAtScreenNames, Dec 6, 2017 at 4:55 PM

  1. NoGoodAtScreenNames

    NoGoodAtScreenNames
    Burning Hunk 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 16, 2015
    161
    73
    Loc:
    Massachusetts
    I’ve been doing some work in my attic to air seal and fix / add insulation. I found a lot of helpful hints on line. I ran across this guy and a lot of the advice was solid, but then I saw this video...

    In a nutshell he bad mouths wood stoves as if they are fireplaces but then does some things to fix air leaks from a stove while it’s dormant that make it dangerous while operating.

    I counted at least 4 ways I could kill myself following this advice and I’m far from a professional. How many can you count?

     
  2. begreen

    begreen
    Mooderator 2.
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    Nov 18, 2005
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    Never heard of a block-off plate I guess.
     
  3. Dmitry

    Dmitry
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Oct 4, 2014
    627
    96
    Loc:
    CT
    I got some great advice from him that made a lot of sense insulating my attic and sealing top plates of the walls. Too bad he is wrong here. . All he needed to say : Install block off plate, use insulated liner and seal the top plate with cap to best of your ability.

    Instead of this, he propose to install creosote trap on a top of your chimney and declares in bold letters on a screen :WOOD STOVES CAUSE AIR LEAKS .They don't if installed correctly This is just stupid . He can put this : WINDOWS CAUSE LEAKS or DOORS CAUSE LEAKS , or WALLS CAUSE LEAKS. They don't , they just leaking if faulty or installed not the right way.
     
  4. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 22, 2012
    628
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    Loc:
    Michigan
    New chimney cap completely negates the advantage of a liner with a proper cap, would've been better off sealing the top of the original cap with silicone, and installed a block off plate at the flue/ damper area by the stove. He is just so wrong about wood stoves, I don't even know where to begin..
     
  5. NoGoodAtScreenNames

    NoGoodAtScreenNames
    Burning Hunk 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 16, 2015
    161
    73
    Loc:
    Massachusetts
    With everything there is a risk and reward and it doesn’t add up to do this. Sure you’ll save some air going up but not much compared to a block off plate. I mean how much air leaks through a stove / block off plate when it’s shut down with the door closed? So minimal reward if any.

    What’s the risk? It’s another thing to fiddle with when doing a fire. What happens if the customer forgets to open it during a start- smoke and CO. Or since they are so scared of air leaks that they close the damper before all the coals are extinguished - so again CO issues.

    Then you’ve got creosote issues from not opening it but he also cut the liner a few inches below. So now the creosote could also accumulate on the outside of the liner which is impossible to clean and could drop down all the way into the living area since there’s no block off plate.

    It’s scary that something so dangerous can be advocated by a professional when they get out of their area of expertise. Let this guy blow your insulation. Call a sweep for your chimney.
     
  6. gregbesia

    gregbesia
    Feeling the Heat 2.
    NULL
    

    Jan 26, 2009
    313
    105
    Loc:
    central CT
    I know you really mean CO :)
     
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  7. peakbagger

    peakbagger
    Minister of Fire 2.
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    Jul 11, 2008
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    Loc:
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    Unfortunately the current reality is there inst a lot of potential liability placed on a lot of electronic media. As an engineer if I am getting paid to make technical recomendations and they cause unintended consequences I can get sued. Yet I can publish a video on the internet with the same and not be liable.
     
  8. begreen

    begreen
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    Nov 18, 2005
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    I feel for the chimney sweep that has to brush after this installation. How is the liner supported after being detached from the top cap and cut off 8" below the cap?
     
  9. NoGoodAtScreenNames

    NoGoodAtScreenNames
    Burning Hunk 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 16, 2015
    161
    73
    Loc:
    Massachusetts
    No idea what you mean... (pay no attention to the guy who just edited his post).

    Sometimes your fingers type something different than what your brain means.

    On a related note, did you know that standing next to a human is dangerous from all the CO2 that they emit?
     
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  10. jetsam

    jetsam
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    Dec 12, 2015
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    You simply hammer a couple pieces of 36" rebar all the way through the chimney, being sure to pierce the liner, about 10" down. Easy peasy!

    When you need to sweep, you simply pull the rebar out, rebuild the chimney, go downstairs to shake the lost brick out of the liner, fabricate a special liner grabbing tool to clamp the liner from the top, clamp the liner, sweep normally, and hammer the rebar back in.

    If you have any rebar left over, you can also use it to make a quick and easy outside air kit for your stove. Simply hammer it through the back wall of the stove all the way to the outdoors, and enjoy the fresh air and improved heat output from your stove.

    Rebar: What can't it do?
     
  11. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster
    Minister of Fire 2.
    NULL
    

    Sep 22, 2012
    628
    204
    Loc:
    Michigan
    Not to mention what would happen if that cable or holder or any connection fails with the new chimney cap, you've just sealed the entire flue. If it happened at night it would be a recovery for local FD not a rescue.
     
  12. bholler

    bholler
    Minister of Fire 2.
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    Jan 14, 2014
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    Using a top sealer in this case is obviously completly wrong and dangerous for many reasons. But if any part fails the damper will open on its own. So in that respect it is not a safety issue
     
  13. begreen

    begreen
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    Is there any issue with the top seal icing up and not opening?
     
  14. bholler

    bholler
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    Jan 14, 2014
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    Yes that can happen. Not as much with the type he installed as with the popup ones but it can happen with any of them. Again i am not defending what this moron did at all.
     
  15. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster
    Minister of Fire 2.
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    Sep 22, 2012
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    My mistake, I thought it defaulted to closed.
     
  16. begreen

    begreen
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    Understood. Just wondering how much this might be an issue for folks in areas where ice storms are common.
     
  17. bholler

    bholler
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    Jan 14, 2014
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    Nope
     
  18. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster
    Minister of Fire 2.
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    Sep 22, 2012
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    I have had this unit, or one very similar to it, and had it freeze shut on me, it was with a gas log, and the condensation from the gas made it moist enough to freeze shut. Ice storm, if heavy enough would do it too I suspect.
     
  19. bholler

    bholler
    Minister of Fire 2.
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    Jan 14, 2014
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    It absolutly can be an issue we use one that is a pop up type but it gas a regular cap over it to so snow and ice is not an issue but we have had several that got iced up on the inside from condensation
     
  20. Manly

    Manly
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    Aug 8, 2017
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    I don't know. This guy looks like a real pro to me. Check out his tool belt. I do believe it is real leather. Nothing like the smell of a real leather tool belt. :) Manly
     
  21. jetsam

    jetsam
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    Dec 12, 2015
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    20171207_215054.png

    Well, his kit checks out. I know someone's going to disagree, but I'd like to see YOU fix a stove without scotch tape! You'd probably fall down and injure yourself just getting dressed for the job, because YOUR stove repair bandolier does not even contain a shoehorn! Rookie.
     
  22. Sodbuster

    Sodbuster
    Minister of Fire 2.
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    Sep 22, 2012
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    That's hilarious, well played!!!
     
  23. RobbieB

    RobbieB
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    Feb 19, 2017
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    You have to have tape so you can mark and cut the liner off square with both hands on the angle grinder.
     

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