Door gaskets sticking to stove (and not sticking to door!)

[tradergordo]

OK, so I did some break in fires in my new VC Dutchwest (2479), then I did a bigger fire, then last week I did an even bigger fire. I noticed that after the last two fires, the fiberglass gasket rope from all three doors (side/front/ash pan) was sticking to the cast iron, and especially after the big fires, it was REALLY sticking. I was wondering - is it normal for the gaskets to stick to cast iron? I noticed someone else mentioned this in a review of a dutchwest stove. Anyway, it was stuck so strongly that it actually pulled the gasket off the front door. I had to go to the stove shop and ask them about it - they told me sometimes at the factory they don't use enough gasket cement, and they just gave me a tube of gasket cement and told me how to fix it.

Replacing that gasket was a much bigger pain than I thought it would be. I had to take the door completely off (recommended by the stove shop), finish removing the gasket, scrape like crazy to get the old gasket cement off, then apply the new and refit the gasket which of course didn't meet at the ends anymore (very easy to stretch or contract it). It was impossible to get all of the original dried cement off, I tried a lot of different tools, don't know if this is going to be a problem. There is also still some old cement on the rope that I reused. And I really wasn't sure how much new gasket cement I needed to use, it was a pain to squeeze out of the bottle and really the only way I could figure to apply it evenly was by putting on a rubber glove and pushing/smoothing it into the grove with my finger - I still don't know if I used enough, guess I won't know until I test it. But while scraping off the old stuff, I really didn't think the problem was the factory gasketing job - there was PLENTY there and it seemed to have full coverage, no gaps.

So the problem seems to me to be related to whatever causes the gasket to stick to the cast iron - maybe its the paint they use (and possibly it only sticks when its curing)? Don't know. Was wondering if it might help to rub a little bit of vegetable oil over the cast iron where it touches the gasket? This would be similar to how you season cast iron cookware (you rub a little oil coating on it and stick in the oven, it sort of bakes in and creates a non-stick surface). Has anyone done this with their stove?

Anyone else have problems with gaskets like this?
Maybe the gasket cement they use at the factory is some inferior or defective product, because it really wasn't holding the gasket on very tightly, the parts the didn't pull off the door on their own came off very easily with a gentle pull.

 

[skypager]

If I had to guess I would say its the factory cement that was used. I deal mostly with VC's (Dutchwest) gas stoves. The gasket on the gas stoves is only on the gas to stop the porcelain paint from chipping when the decorative (non funcitonal) doors are closed but it always falls off. I wouldn't bother with the veggie oil, it would probably stink for a while and the burn of anyway. I think the sticking gasket is more the curing process. It may stick a little in the future but with a good cement it won't come of the door.

What brand gasket cement did they give you?

 

[tradergordo]

If I had to guess I would say its the factory cement that was used. I deal mostly with VC's (Dutchwest) gas stoves. The gasket on the gas stoves is only on the gas to stop the porcelain paint from chipping when the decorative (non funcitonal) doors are closed but it always falls off. I wouldn't bother with the veggie oil, it would probably stink for a while and the burn of anyway. I think the sticking gasket is more the curing process. It may stick a little in the future but with a good cement it won't come of the door.

What brand gasket cement did they give you?

Thanks for the info. I hope vermont castings is paying attention (I will certainly let them know). The stuff the stove shop gave me was "Rutland" brand, and it is black. The stuff that didn't work from the factory was whitish in color.

ooooh, I didn't know it came in (broken link removed) (would have made things a little easier).

 

[skypager]

I personally would have put new gasket material on also. I'm sure that some of the cement is still on the original gasket and you will probably get a better hold with a new gasket since it will work its way into the weave.

Usually what I do is put a good bead in the groove, lay the gasket in overlapping at the ends, use the handle of a screw driver to tap it in to the groove nice and tight, wipe up the excess, and cut the ends to meet nicely.

Its obviously not difficult but I would think that the least you dealer could do is do it for you if you bring the door into his showroom. They would probably be ok with that since it may save them a trip to your home in the future.

 

[skypager]

Rutland will hold well. They make good quality stove servicing products. It will dry to a grayish color after a few fires.

Edit - I mean cure.

 

[tradergordo]

Ugh, I was kind of wondering if I should have used a new rope gasket - the stove shop should have mentioned this, that stuff doesn't cost them much (they sell it from big spools by the foot). Anyway, how important is it to get all of the old cement off the door first? Because like I said, it was extremely difficult to get it off, basically like trying to clean spilled concrete from a floor, you need something like a hammer and chisle, but who has a tool that fits perfectly into that groove? I tried using a metal dowel, a screwdriver (which was recommending in the owners manual) and even a rotary tool but still couldn't get all of the old stuff out. And you are right about some of the cement still being on the original gasket.

Do you think I should remove it and start over before lighting the first fire that would cure what I've got already?

 

[begreen]

Why isn't the dealer doing this on a brand new stove? If you don't get it right, is the waranty in jeopardy? I would insist on a proper repair or a new stove.

 

[wg_bent]

Why isn't the dealer doing this on a brand new stove? If you don't get it right, is the waranty in jeopardy? I would insist on a proper repair or a new stove.

I second BeGreen's points!! Make this their problem.

 

[webbie]

IN my experience, it is a paint thing. The curing paint becomes sticky and grabs the gasketing and pulls it off the stove. Not much solution except waiting until the paint cures and then glue the gasket back on. When customers of our store had this problem, I would give them a tube of G2 (Heat-safe) furnace cement and that would make them happy. In most cases, you cannot expect house calls for simple paint and furnance cement situations.

 

[begreen]

I suppose if it was minor then I'd try myself. But if I had to take out a chisel to a new stove, I wouldn't consider that simple. It sounds like they need to bake their paint jobs a bit or not paint the gasket mating edge.

 

[skypager]

As far as getting the old cement out of the groove. Most of it should come out but don't kill youself trying to get it out, just what comes off easily. I use a flat head screw driver and scrape as much as possible, any big chunks or flaky pieces. If the old cement is holding to the door solid and has scratch marks from scraping the new cement will hold fine to that.

Manufacturer warranties rarely pay for labor and travel time on door gasket replacements. Being it a new stove they should pay for the material. If you were a customer of mine I would ask that you either stop by for the gasket and cement or bring it in the door and I'd have it ready to go in 15 minutes. I think that the dealer should at least do that for you at no charge.

 

[tradergordo]

Vermont Castings Tech reply:

" We do use the Rutland Stove Gasket Cement on all of our products and we haven’t had any specific problems with the gasket or this cement. The dealer’s assertion that it happens on the gas stoves is likely to be true, but that is more because the door on a gas stove is only ever opened for service and cleaning, so it is rarely removed and never gets worked in as it does on a wood stove. While it is not out of the ordinary for a gasket to be pulled off with a simple tug after the unit has been fired for a while (as it is with many brands), it isn’t typical to see it actually stick to the cast stove it is forming the seal on. The gaskets are covered under warranty for one year from purchase, so that shouldn’t be an issue if your stove is new, your dealer can assist you in obtaining the parts. Remember that gaskets are part of the annual maintenance requirements for your stove, and should be checked periodically for tightness of the seal and for fraying.

One thing I would like you to monitor is the overall casting temperatures of your stove. If it overfires, and gets up to temperatures up to and beyond 750 degrees Fahrenheit, it can aversely affect many components, least of all the gaskets. So I recommend a stove surface thermometer to be placed on the top, near the back of the castings to ensure proper cast iron temperatures."
_______________________________________________
(As far as the temps are concerned - like I said, besides the tiny break in fires, I’ve only done two bigger fires, and my stove top thermometer never got above 300 (it was mostly only in the 200-250 range). I got a probe flue thermometer, but haven’t tried it yet.

Can any of you tell me, ballpark, what a “normal” temperature should be both from the stove top (surface temp) and from flue (probe temp)? There isn't a single mention of specific operating temps in the manual except to say "don't overfire it", and you know its overfired when things start glowing.

 

[begreen]

Vermont Castings Tech reply:
_______________________________________________
(As far as the temps are concerned - like I said, besides the tiny break in fires, I’ve only done two bigger fires, and my stove top thermometer never got above 300 (it was mostly only in the 200-250 range). I got a probe flue thermometer, but haven’t tried it yet.

Can any of you tell me, ballpark, what a “normal” temperature should be both from the stove top (surface temp) and from flue (probe temp)? There isn't a single mention of specific operating temps in the manual except to say "don't overfire it", and you know its overfired when things start glowing.

It's nice that they got back to you quickly. Can you bring in the door to the dealer for gasket refit?

This is a good question for the tech at VC, temps vary from stove to stove. FWIW, our stove top is running 450-600 after it's warmed up.

 

[skypager]

Vermont Castings Tech reply:

"the door on a gas stove is only ever opened for service and cleaning, so it is rarely removed and never gets worked in as it does on a wood stove."

They misunderstood which gasket I was referring to, but it doesn't matter. I think that after you get the new one on there good you won't have a problem. Sometimes little annoyances happen (with any brand of stove) and just need to be worked out. I wouldn't expect that there was is any major problem with your stove, someone probably just didn't put enough cement on at assembly.

Man, if only I could get manufactures to get back to me that quickly. :-S

 

[seaken]

I've noticed that the gaskets often come off on new stoves and I ask my crew to pay attention and make sure the gaskets are in good shape before they leave the house. Sometimes on self-installs I end up making a good will call to show them how to redo the gaskets. I did this just a couple of weeks ago. A customer installed a new Defiant Non-cat and then called back complaining that the gaskets fell off. My FIL expalined some of the possibilities as to why but the customer just wanted it fixed. I drove out to the location (45 minutes each way) and repaired the gaskets while he looked on for instruction. He wasn't averse to doing it himself he just wasn't sure if it was a defect and it should have been covered. It was.

That's the kind of stuff we take care of without question. Thats what customer service is all about. I have just given a tube of cement to some customers but if they don't like that solution I go to them and fix it. VC doesn't pay me to do that. But we don't discount our stoves and we feel that we should have such good-will calls covered in the sale price.

What erks me is when my crew was just there yesterday and I get the call today that the gaskets are falling out. That ends up costing me. But I send the tech back to take care of it. I've told the techs that I don't think I should have to pay them for these types of call backs. Get it right the first time.

I've been doing this a long time. I've regasketed thousands of stoves. The only thing that has caused the gasket to come out for me is when I wasn't careful to get the gasket in place soon enough from the time I spread the cement. The cement quickly starts to build a barrier when exposed to the atmosphere. Timing is critical. The tech must get the gasket in place before the barrier begins to form. If the cement sticks to the gasket but comes loose from the casting it is always some foriegn substance on the casting, inlcuding moisture from a humid environment.

And Gordo, yes, the best tool for running the cement is your finger! I've tried lots of other techniques and always go back to the finger.

Sean

 

[elkimmeg]

This is a new stove gaskets should not be sticking and pulling away. Re using already glued gaskets is bogus, on a new stove?
Well you just found out what dealer support is. I have re-gasketed many stoves. I never reused existing gasket material.
What was your dealerthinking by just handing you a tube of gasket cement? So now if the stove overfires caused by re-using the gaskets, the warranty is voided by over firing?. Bring in the doors and have them fix it with new gasketing. request a receit as proof they did the gasketing should future warranty issues arrise.

 

[BrotherBart]

This is a new stove gaskets should not be sticking and pulling away. Re using already glued gaskets is bogus, on a new stove?
Well you just found out what dealer support is. I have re-gasketed many stoves. I never reused existing gasket material.
What was your dealerthinking by just handing you a tube of gasket cement? So now if the stove overfires caused by re-using the gaskets, the warranty is voided by over firing?. Bring in the doors and have them fix it with new gasketing. request a receit as proof they did the gasketing should future warranty issues arrise.

But Elk. It is a stove from Bether Vermont!