Draft control? The house you save might be mine.

[Gator eye]

Last year I broke down and installed a wood furnace in my basement, gonna save thousands, the web site told me so.

Threw a couple arm loads of wood in the box, struck a match, turned the draft blower on and dang I got heat! Me and the wife started to get nervous about the time the house hit 90 inside, then it got down right scary about the time the house hit 95 with doors and windows open. First leason learned.

After that I used the draft fan with caution, but then run into a mountain of creosote. I was cleaning the pipes and chimney almost once a week, furnace did a good job of heating but the amount of creosote make me worry about a chimney fire.

I was burning wood that was dried for two years so I don't think it is a green wood problem. I think my problem is I have no idea on how to set or use the draft controls on the stove.

I have a barometric draft on the stove pipe, how do I set it??? Now I have it set so the wind can't blow it
open.

I have a blower draft on a thremostat control, and it also has a manuel draft on the door. In the past I ve been leaving the draft on the door completely closed when using the blower draft, after reading a few thing here I am beginning to believe this might be the sourse of my creosote by choking the fire inbetween burns with the draft blower.

I tried leaving the door draft open but when the blower turned on it forced smoke out of the door draft.

I need drafting help......anybody???

 

[BrotherBart]

Which furnace is it?

 

[Gator eye]

It's a yukon Jack...Super Jack.

I am heating 3200 square foot, furnace has no problem keeping up with the forced draft.

 

[jebatty]

Look like you have a forced air add-on furnace. The Hearth Room might be a better place for your questions, as this is the Boiler Room. That said, the Yukon website describes the Super Jack as follows, which does not exactly match with your experience:

"Jacks operate on a forced draft principle. Put some kindling in, light it with a match, and turn the thermostat up. That turns on the combustion fan to get the wood burning. Then load it up and relax. It's automatic from there. The room thermostat tells the combustion fan to start when it is not warm enough and shuts it off when you're comfortable."

My best advice is to go slow, experiment some, try to understand how the stove operates best as it is supposed to, and learn. You really shouldn't need a barometric damper, as the other draft controls should be able to be set to allow the furnace to burn properly without the barometric. I would do my slow experimenting with the barometric locked closed. I think the barometric is the last resort, and a bit dangerous at that, as in the event of a chimney fire they can "fan the flames."

Why not ask the Admin to move your post to the Hearth Room? That's the best place for you.

 

[BrotherBart]

Why not ask the Admin to move your post to the Hearth Room? That's the best place for you.

Maybe because the admin moved it here from the hearth room in the first place? Boiling air or boiling water ain't a heck of a lot different. Just less valves.

Dis be the furnace room.

 

[Hogwildz]

OH NO MR BILL!
Discrimination in the Boiler room now tooooooo????
Oh My.

 

[begreen]

I'm a bit confused as to how the unit is set up. Is the Yukon furnace on a room thermostat wired per factory directions? The thermostat should control the combustion fan. If so, how is the house getting up to 95 degrees? The thermostat should cut off the combustion fan when its temp setting is satisfied.

I'm trying to get my head around how things are set up to understand the creosote issue. Can you describe in detail the flue exhaust piping and chimney on this system? Is it sharing the flue with anything else? Is the chimney interior or exterior? Is there a flue stack thermometer on it so that you can track flue temps? And this I don't understand. Why is there a barometric draft regulator on a forced draft system?

Finally, I'm curious so that I understand the heating load, where are you located?

 

[Nofossil]

OH NO MR BILL!
Discrimination in the Boiler room now tooooooo????
Oh My.

And I was just about to ask for a 'smoking section' for the OWB discussions ;-)

 

[Gator eye]

When I first started the furnace I had the thermostat set to high and by the time the draft control fan shut off the fire with a full load of wood it was cranking. The blower fan which blows the hot air into my duct work keeps running anytime the stove temp is higher than 180 regardless of the room temp.

I believe my creosote problem is because when the forced draft fan shuts off it chokes the fire to much...
so...
Does the Barometric draft on the pipe help control choking the fire down to much?? or what does it do? and how do I set it??

Oh and yes, I do have a outside block chimney but most of the creosote build up is in the stove pipe and first two or three foot in the chimney. When I clean the chimney and pipe it is almost like a fluffy, flakey black build up, it knocks out easy but plugs the pipe if I don't keep after it.

 

[jebatty]

Why not ask the Admin to move your post to the Hearth Room? That’s the best place for you.

Guess I unintentionally hit a sensitive nerve; didn't mean to. Is there forgiveness in the heat of the Boiler Room?

Does the Barometric draft on the pipe help control choking the fire down to much?? or what does it do? and how do I set it?

The barometric damper is a draft control device. Many operate by a weighted damper. As the draft in the chimney increases, that is, as more and more burn exhaust goes up the chimney, the effect is a vacuum in the chimney. As that vacuum increases, the weighted damper on the barometric is "sucked" open to admit room air. When and how much it opens is set by the weight. As room air is sucked in, the amount of burn exhaust is limited, thus decreasing the furnace/stove draft between the barometric and the flue outlet on the stove. As draft decreases, the rate of burn (and temp) should decrease.

Ideally the barometric is set to maintain the w.c. draft appropriate for your furnace. The manual may tell you what this should be for proper operation. You also can set it by experience to maintain a proper burn.

Another way I have used (but no longer use a barometric) is measuring interior flue temperature with a probe thermometer. Interior flue temp is about twice stove pipe surface temp when measured about 18-24" above the flue outlet on the stove. In my experience for a wood stove I want interior flue temp not to exceed 1000, and more usually be about 600-800. The 1000 number is about 1/2 the constant rating of a Class A chimney, which to me is a safety factor. The 600-800 number is related to efficiency. The hotter the flue gases going up the chimney, the more wasted heat. I set the barometric (at one time) to achieve the desirable interior flue temp. Now for me I have otherwise controlled the draft by damping the draft fan so I do not need the barometric.

Type of chimney, length, temperature, wind, proximity to obstructions, stove, intensity of burn and other factors all work together to result in draft in a particular install. There is no magic formula. As mentioned previously, I regard using a barometric as a last resort. Try everything else first. Because in the event of a chimney fire, draft increases rapidly, and the barometric opens fully to allow more air, thus "fanning the flames," not exactly what you want.

You also do not want flue gases too cool. Interior flue temp less than 300 is likely to result in condensation and creosote formation.

 

[Gator eye]

Thanks Jebatty for explaining a barometric draft

Sounds like I could close it off and not worry about it.

What about your manuel draft control and your forced draft?? How do they work together? Do you run both at the same time, or do you leave the manual draft closed when the forced draft fan is running and leave the manual draft for power outages only?

 

[begreen]

Gator eye, contact Yukon support. I don't think a baro draft regulator is used in this kind of installation.

Describe how the furnace is current connected to the chimney in detail so that the reason for creosote is clearer.

Is this furnace connected to a room thermostat as per the manual?

I have a lot of questions because this is starting to sound like a safety issue, especially if the system is mis-wired. The convection (duct) blower should be coming on at about 120 degrees, not 180. That is usually the high limit temperature. If this is due to mis-wiring, and clearances to the plenum are not good, this could be a very hazardous situation.

 

[Eric Johnson]

This is the Central Heating Forum. Brother Bart came up with the "Boiler Room" title and it sounded so right that we made that the official name. But everyone is welcome here, even 'ol Yukon Jack.

Offhand, it sounds to me like your furnace may be oversized for your heat load. Even with dry wood, you'll get creosote if the furnace shuts off the combustion air for extended periods, which is what should happen when the heat load is met.

In addition to getting rid of the barometric damper (big chimney fire hazard), I'd experiment with making smaller fires, trying to anticipate and better match your heat load. Don't fill the firebox up, for example, at 2:00 p.m. on a mild day when your house is sitting at 80 degrees. Stuff like that makes a huge difference. No matter how automated your furnace appears to be, you can't get around the fact that you can't store the heat produced, so you have to compensate through your firing habits.

 

[Gator eye]

I think the safty hazzard is more my learning curve on how to use the stove. I ve read the directions on how to use the stove but they are kind of vage. That's what has got me here trying to shortin the learning curve by a year or two and to make sure nobody gets hurt in the process. When burning I also keep tight tabs on the pipes and how much creosote is in them. Me and the wife has cleaning the pipes and chimney down to a science.

Yes it has a big fire box and now I know not to full it full. I might of miss quoted the blower fan on at 180 it might be 120, I haven't takin the cover off sence the install.

The fans all work proper and turn off and on when needed, the wiring was done by a professonal and system has been inspected.

My problem might have a lot to do with to big a stove and smoothers the fire to much.....I do like the idea of adding more fire brick to make the fire box smaller, I wonder if that would mess with the secondary burn????....I also thought about not using the force draft fan and just using the manual draft control cause when the draft fan is on it really burns hot, but when it's not to cold out and the fan doesn't run much I get a lot of smoke.

The stove pipe comes out the back of the stove about 8" into a 90, the up about two foot into another 90 and then a straight piece of about 12 inches to the thimble. The baro. draft is in the two foot up and down section.....oh, and yes the baro draft came with the stove.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Creosote formation is one good indication that you're not getting much (if any) secondary burn. I heated with a wood-fired furnace for a few years and I think you're correct in that you can probably solve most of your problems by learning how your particular furnace operates. It always takes me at least a year with a new stove, boiler or furnace to get reasonably proficient. Even longer to get really good.

 

[solarguy]

I hate to say this but this is a typical problem with wood add on warm air furnaces. Anyone that I have know that has installed one of these in their homes wish they hadn't.

Because of their design, a steel box ,they throw off heat much in the same way a wood stove does. This heat eventually finds its way to the living space, usually convection thru the ductwork, satisfies the thermostat & the wood in the firebox just sits there & smolders which in turn causes more heat & a cresote problem.

The yukon does require a barometric draft damper for proper operation. You may want to see if it's located in the proper place. As someone else mentioned, you may want to check the control wiring to be sure it's correct.

 

[jebatty]

What about your manuel draft control and your forced draft?? How do they work together? Do you run both at the same time, or do you leave the manual draft closed when the forced draft fan is running and leave the manual draft for power outages only?

I operate a system much different than yours, a gasification boiler, and I doubt that much of what I did will be very useful to you. My draft fan has a damper which you manually adjust to increase or decrease the forced draft. You might check to see if you have the same.

 

[Drifthopper]

Gator Eye.....you still following this thread???

And ...Solarguy...Why???? i have a WoodChuck furnace, one season under my belt and like it alot. I can see Gator Eye's issues,,,its a learning experience, ( and have comments to add if still following, ) but if you are typing that the one's you talk to don't like 'em,,,, something may be "wrong" with their installation.

 

[begreen]

Hope gator eye checks back in too. I'm concerned about his original concerns as indicated in the title. There seemed a possibility that this system was mis-wired and maybe mis-installed. Hopefully he has called the manufacturer's tech support and is getting it straightened out.

 

[Chrisg]

Sent you a PM Drifthopper. Thanks

 

[Gator eye]

Yeap, I am still following along.

As far as install,,,this is how it's working
When I set the upstairs thermostat at 74 and the temp in the house is at 68 then the force draft fan turns on. When the plentum reaches 120 (I checked the setting) the blower fan kicks on intil the plentum temp falls below 110 then it shuts off intil temp goes back up. The forced draft fan stays on intil the house temp reaches the temp the upstairs thermostat is set at then it shuts off intil the house temp falls below the set temp.

This all works great when it's ten degrees out and the draft fan is working and calling for heat. This unit heated my 3200 foot house without a hitch. The problem and creosote build up starts when it's 30 or 40 out, the draft fan rarely kicks on and so I get creosote.

I am learning that this cool burning is causing my creosote but I am still a little in the dark how to control the three different drafts on this unit and how they work together. These are my three draft controls on this stove.
Forced fan draft with manuel shutter on fan intake,
Manuel spinner draft control in the door,
Baro draft in the stove pipe.

I didn't do much messing with how I burned the stove last year but I am already working on a list of different ways to set the draft controls for next.


I ve been checking this forum almost everyday and have picked up a lot of other things to try also.
like
Smaller hotter fires....sounds good but might be hard to do and still have a long burn time.
Dry wood.......After reading some post on here, I know I didn't let my wood season near enough
Outside chimney.......not much I can do about that now, but at least I am awhere of the problem
Burn from the front to the back
Open the draft and let the wood and fire get going before closing drafts down.

I'll gladly try any other suggestion or idea's put on here.

thanks.......

 

[begreen]

Hey ge, thanks for the update. This is a nice, concise report that indicates that the basic systems are working up correctly. It was the earlier report about the blower not coming on until 180 degrees that spooked me. I think Eric nailed this one. In milder weather, burning is going to have to be managed. That will kill long burn times, but such is life. Burn short, hot fires in spring and fall and let them go out. As noted, dry wood is usually the best prescription for eliminating creosote.

 

[Drifthopper]

Chris...did you get the PM reply?

 

[Chrisg]

Yes thank you very much. The link to the englander and your insite was encouraging. I will be in touch with you for more brain picking.
Chris