Drolet 1800i dimension issues

[Bootstrap]

So I recently posted about getting my Drolet 1800i installed. There are a few issues with dimensions to combustibles that I am not sure what I should do about. Its been brought to my attention that I need to insulate the liner, and that is going to happen.

The next issue as mentioned, is dimensions to combustibles. The dimension to the wood floor is too close, the dimensions to the fireplace mantle is too close.

The manual says I need 12" on the sides, and 20" on the top. I also need more in front on the floor.


I need to add protection all around. The is my situation.



What would you do?

 

[yooper08]

I have the Century cousin to your insert. There's a heat shield you can get to lower the clearance to the upper surround and mantle (I also had to get one). This will reduce the clearance to the upper surround to 11". So that'll be taken care of.

The trickier part may be the sides unless someone else knows something I don't. How attached are you to the fireplace surround? Would you entertain putting a new mantle in?

As for the floor, gotta take out the wood and extend the hearth. The requirement is 29" in front of the insert with non-combustible materials providing a total R value of 2. So you need an additional 19" based on your photo.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

So I recently posted about getting my Drolet 1800i installed. There are a few issues with dimensions to combustibles that I am not sure what I should do about. Its been brought to my attention that I need to insulate the liner, and that is going to happen.

The next issue as mentioned, is dimensions to combustibles. The dimension to the wood floor is too close, the dimensions to the fireplace mantle is too close.

The manual says I need 12" on the sides, and 20" on the top. I also need more in front on the floor.


I need to add protection all around. The is my situation.
View attachment 201111

What would you do?

I removed my mantle this year. Not as nice as yours, as it was painted white, but otherwise very similar. It took me two seasons to come to terms with it. Now I just need to get the hearth up to compliance. Eventually, I'm going to replace some of the floor with steel and concrete, which will require some major surgery. Currently, I have a sheet of hardybacker over the wood floor.

 

[Bootstrap]

Theres no way I will remove the mantle. that's just not going to happen. There must be a way. I was thinking about the heat shield on the top, I actually have one already. I was thinking about a similar heat shield on the sides as well.
Putting some kind of cement board down would not suffice? I have to actually tear out the wood flooring?
I am beginning to regret this decision.

 

[begreen]

There is a way. Check with Drolet on the side dimension. The mantel thickness will be important here. It could be you are ok there. As for above, it would be easy to add a mantel shield at the lintel level and if necessary short side shields too. I have to head out, but will revisit this thread later.

 

[yooper08]

Don't get frustrated quite yet, hang in there. It's a bump in the road. Lot's of knowledge here, so I'm sure together we'll help you figure this out.

As begreen said, give SBI a call and see what they say. Just that in the manual, there isn't a way given to reduce side clearances. If they give you a solution, ask for it in writing in case you ever need it down the road, and you get to keep your surround.

As far as floor protection, I've always been under the impression you can't just throw something over the floor, particularly if it raises the hearth extension in front of the unit, as in your case. Everything I've seen allows for an extension that is flush or below the existing hearth.

 

[begreen]

Some shielding ideas. Ask Drolet if either of these would fly.

1) attach a shield to the inside perimeter of the fireplace opening that extends 1" past the mantel trim. This assumes that there is at least 22" from the top of the insert to the mantel shelf.

2) slip an L shaped shield under the trim perimeter that maintains a 1" space from the trim and projects 1" beyond the trim.

 

[Ashful]

As others have said:

1. Top heat shield will reduce clearance to mantel requirement.

2. Those side clearances are typically for objects that protrude more than the 1” thickness of your surround. Measure surround protrusion, and see what they’ll allow for that protrusion.

3. Cutting back the floor is not a showstopper. Heck, I cut back the original 1770’s flooring in my house, to extend the hearth, and you’d never know it wasn’t original. It can be done tastefully. I can post photos, if you’re interested.

 

[begreen]

Simplest solution for the hearth would be a hearth extension board. This could be removed in summer if desired. The best look would be to cut back the floor as Ashful suggested and the extend with matching material.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Theres no way I will remove the mantle. that's just not going to happen. There must be a way. I was thinking about the heat shield on the top, I actually have one already. I was thinking about a similar heat shield on the sides as well.
Putting some kind of cement board down would not suffice? I have to actually tear out the wood flooring?
I am beginning to regret this decision.

You're getting some good advice, bootstrap.

I understand your feelings, the SBI clearances seem excessive, particularly now that I have two seasons experience under my belt. My mantle, nor floor, ever seemed warm enough to warrant the requirements, and I checked often. But, I'm not one to ignore manufacturers instructions, I figure they are in the best position to know their products.

I struggled greatly about tearing down the mantle (85% was pressure from the little lady to keep it), but, when I'm done, I'm going to have a rustic kick-ass cast mantle that is way cooler than that fancy one that was there.

As I've said before, bite down hard, and do what's necessary (after pursuing begreen and ashful's advice.) Seems daunting now, but you don't want to play with fire, so to speak. No regrets, it'll be worth it.

 

[yooper08]

If an extension board is used though, can it go in front? What about heat transfer from the current extension?

This is just me personally, but I also wouldn’t want that trip hazard.

 

[begreen]

Yes it can go in front, though not optimal in this situation. It needs to meet the stove's hearth protection insulation value. In this case because the hearth is flush, it needs to be an R=2.0 extension. That is pretty stiff and will require a ~ 1.5 - 2" thick extension in order to achieve the proper R value.

 

[Bootstrap]

So it looks like I'm ok on the sides as the surround doesn't protrude more than 1" out till its after 12" away from the stove. So I think I have that requirement there.
The mantel shelf is over 22" from the top of the stove and only sticks out 7" so I'm well within that requirement. But the trim on top will need the heat shield which I so conveniently already have. So I think we are good there.

The biggest decision maker is whether or not to extend the hearth or put a hearth board down. I can get the 48x48 hearth boards but they get pricey. Looks like they are 2" thick, which means I'll have to shim up the stove as only the front area of the stove would be on the hearth board. And Ill have to cut the hearth board anyways so it goes into the fireplace a bit.

Last night I was leaning toward the hearth board but now I'm interested in extending the hearth. With that said, two questions:
1. How far out would the hearth have to stick out in front of the stove? That part I am unsure of.
2. I *think* I know exactly what it will take to do the job as I have laid tile before. But just in case, can someone (Ashful) post pics and details of how that should be done?

Thanks

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

So it looks like I'm ok on the sides as the surround doesn't protrude more than 1" out till its after 12" away from the stove. So I think I have that requirement there.
The mantel shelf is over 22" from the top of the stove and only sticks out 7" so I'm well within that requirement. But the trim on top will need the heat shield which I so conveniently already have. So I think we are good there.

The biggest decision maker is whether or not to extend the hearth or put a hearth board down. I can get the 48x48 hearth boards but they get pricey. Looks like they are 2" thick, which means I'll have to shim up the stove as only the front area of the stove would be on the hearth board. And Ill have to cut the hearth board anyways so it goes into the fireplace a bit.

Last night I was leaning toward the hearth board but now I'm interested in extending the hearth. With that said, two questions:
1. How far out would the hearth have to stick out in front of the stove? That part I am unsure of.
2. I *think* I know exactly what it will take to do the job as I have laid tile before. But just in case, can someone (Ashful) post pics and details of how that should be done?

Thanks

Good news on the mantle.

Regarding the floor, I've asked this exact question. I think you'll find that it's way more involved than removing the flooring, putting down some cement board and tiling. To get to the values that the manual calls for on an install where the stove sits level with the floor, you'll need to remove floor framing to the dimensions specified in the manual. Essentially it'll be like building a trap door frame in the floor and filling the hole with non-combustable material 5" per manual. I believe this part must go out at least 16" from the front of the stove.

Page 32 of the manual also proscribes a total of 29" out (you're already out 16" from the previous paragraph, so you'll only need 13" more) with an R value of 2 or more. Getting to an R value of 2 requires a lot of traditional masonry thickness. Looks like you can get there with about 1" of micore, whatever that is. R values of various materials are detailed on pg 34 of same manual.

The picture and last sentence on pg 32 have all the details you need, a bit hard to understand, hopefully I've helped a bit.

(broken link removed to https://www.drolet.ca/en/owners-manual/list/?productId=DB03127K)

 

[Bootstrap]

Micore 300 has an R value of 2.06 per inch of thickness so that might be the best material to use.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

Micore 300 has an R value of 2.06 per inch of thickness so that might be the best material to use.

Yep, that's right. I edited my previous post to correctly state your observation.

I've been thinking about this for two years now, and your post has me revisiting it. My sticking point is the 16" that needs to be 5" deep of non-combustables. I'm currently at 10", so only need 6 more, but my floor joists run perpendicular to the front of the stove, and I'm no carpenter. The micore covered with tile sounds like the ticket for the extension.

 

[Bootstrap]

The way I figure it, with micore 300 it only need to be 1" thick. Then put backerboard on top of that and slate tile over that. So overall thickness of the hearth extension would be about 2". That would mean I will have to cut into the floor joist a little. My joists run perpendicular as well and I believe I only need to cut into one. But I will have to frame in support underneath the hearth extension.

 

[Bootstrap]

I think for the meantime, I will make a tasteful looking board out of micore 160 that will just sit in front of the insert for now. Maybe I'll throw some tile on it to look nice and some kind of border on it. Itll just sit in front of the insert. That'll get me through this season and maybe in the spring or summer a better option will present itself. That way I can stew on it for a while.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I think for the meantime, I will make a tasteful looking board out of micore 160 that will just sit in front of the insert for now. Maybe I'll throw some tile on it to look nice and some kind of border on it. Itll just sit in front of the insert. That'll get me through this season and maybe in the spring or summer a better option will present itself. That way I can stew on it for a while.

Sounds good, just keep an eye on the temporary board, it will tend to inch away from the stove and leave a gap that will attract any errant coals like a magnet. You also will kick the edges and corners from time to time. If you make it too nice, you'll be tempted to make it permanent, which is why I left mine "construction-grade".

I'm glad you posted about this. Last time I thought about mine, I had interpreted the manual to require 29 total inches of full-on hearth 5" thick, out from the fan housing. Which I now think is way more than is required.

 

[yooper08]

29" starts at the insert face. Where are you guys getting the requirement for 5" thick on the extension? The manual only states 29" of protection with at least an R value of 2.00 since the insert is less than 4" above the floor.

 

[Bootstrap]

29" starts at the insert face. Where are you guys getting the requirement for 5" thick on the extension? The manual only states 29" of protection with at least an R value of 2.00 since the insert is less than 4" above the floor.

I think he thought the hearth needed to be 5" thick. If you use Micore it doesn't need to be that thick. But if you use something else like concrete it might need to be 5"thick. It depends on the material.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I think he thought the hearth needed to be 5" thick. If you use Micore it doesn't need to be that thick. But if you use something else like concrete it might need to be 5"thick. It depends on the material.

Look carefully at the last picture on page 32. It clearly indicates that the hearth slab must extend 16" in front of the stove face (A). And it also clearly states that it must be at least 5" thick. The extension (D) is the part that needs to be R-2. The hearth plus extension (A+D) needs to be 29" or more. There is absolutely no ambiguity here, you can't argue with a clear picture with numbers and measurements given. The sentence above the picture clarifies it further.

 

[Bootstrap]

I don't know how thick the hearth extension is and Im not about to tear up the floor to find out. But regardless of that, it sticks out 17" from the fireplace opening so its nowhere near what it should be.

Its conflicting because the wordage says "front of the unit" but the actual picture points to the fireplace opening.... So I guess I don't know which. If its referring to the hearth extension from the fireplace opening as evidenced in the diagram, then its compliant because its 17" from that. However if it really means stove face(in which the diagram is wrong), then there is no way possible for me to be compliant at this time.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I don't know how thick the hearth extension is and Im not about to tear up the floor to find out. But regardless of that, it sticks out 17" from the fireplace opening so its nowhere near what it should be.

Its conflicting because the wordage says "front of the unit" but the actual picture points to the fireplace opening.... So I guess I don't know which. If its referring to the hearth extension from the fireplace opening as evidenced in the diagram, then its compliant because its 17" from that. However if it really means stove face(in which the diagram is wrong), then there is no way possible for me to be compliant at this time.

I think you are actually referring to the hearth, not an extension. This needs to be 16" from the fireplace opening (A). If you are at 17", then you are good as far as the hearth goes, and only have to worry about the extension. That's great news for you, as that would have been the most difficult to remedy. I wouldn't tear up the floor to measure it's thickness either.

I have the benefit(?) of open joists in the cellar, so I can see the slab. I'm not sure it's 5", but it's been there for many decades, so I'm not gonna measure it. I guess I'll see when I add the additional 6" out to get it to 16 and I make the slab 5" thick.

The extension, plus however much of the original hearth slab that isn't covered by the stove, should add up to 29". So, how far out from the fireplace opening does your stove stick out? Measure to the face of the stove, not the fan housing or door.

 

[Ashful]

I know you already own the Drolet, but it might be much easier to do the hearth extension if you don't have to meet these R-value requirements. My stoves (both the Jotuls I had before, and the Blaze Kings that replaced them) only required ember protection. So my extension was as simple as getting 1/2" cement board + tile to come out flush with the existing wood flooring. I can post photos on how I did it (tonight), but it won't be directly applicable for a case requiring R-value.