Drolet Escape 1800 insert install

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Easy Livin’ 3000

Minister of Fire
Dec 23, 2015
2,920
SEPA
Might be worth trying the L brackets, then returning the adapter if you don't need it. I didn't even attempt using the L brackets. I'm generally a pretty thrifty guy, but paying $80 to avoid a couple hours of pain and frustration working in a cramped spot seemed like a pretty good trade off!
Except you've only just begun dealing with this connection, when you install it.

Any time the stove needs to be disconnected from the liner, these brackets will need to be removed, and if the sheet metal screws are corroded, forget it.

I'm as thrifty as they come. And I've actually installed the L brackets. That connector is worth every penny. If you've not actually dealt with installing the L brackets or removed them, where is your opinion coming from?
 

pvfjr

Burning Hunk
Nov 18, 2015
152
Lyons, OR
Is your flue extension double or triple wall with insulation? It kind of doesn't appear to be. If not, that could end up with quite a bit of creosote condensation on it.
 

Riteway

Member
Jul 27, 2020
125
Kitsap County, WA
I'm as thrifty as they come. And I've actually installed the L brackets. That connector is worth every penny. If you've not actually dealt with installing the L brackets or removed them, where is your opinion coming from?

You mean my opinion that the L brackets would be hard to install/remove? I've done enough auto repair work (that often involves removing/installing fasteners in tight clearances) to realize that getting those buggers in there wouldn't be a pleasant way to spend a Saturday. Plus, it's good peace of mind knowing that the liner has a rock-solid connection to the insert with the adapter.

Is your flue extension double or triple wall with insulation? It kind of doesn't appear to be. If not, that could end up with quite a bit of creosote condensation on it.

No...the extension pipe appears to be just a section of uninsulated rigid chimney liner. That's a good point about the creosote...I plan on doing a mid-season chimney sweep this weekend (first sweep with the new insert), so I'll check it out then. If there's a lot of creosote buildup in there, then I'll probably try running the insert without the extension and see if the draft is still adequate.
 

pvfjr

Burning Hunk
Nov 18, 2015
152
Lyons, OR
No...the extension pipe appears to be just a section of uninsulated rigid chimney liner. That's a good point about the creosote...I plan on doing a mid-season chimney sweep this weekend (first sweep with the new insert), so I'll check it out then. If there's a lot of creosote buildup in there, then I'll probably try running the insert without the extension and see if the draft is still adequate.
Huh, it's interesting that they make a product like that. I'd figure it'd be closer to a Class A chimney type construction. I'd imagine you'd want to stay insulated all the way to the outlet at the top. I'll be curious to see if that sudden loss of insulation and resulting temperature change causes issues with buildup. Great job on the install though!
 

Easy Livin’ 3000

Minister of Fire
Dec 23, 2015
2,920
SEPA
You mean my opinion that the L brackets would be hard to install/remove? I've done enough auto repair work (that often involves removing/installing fasteners in tight clearances) to realize that getting those buggers in there wouldn't be a pleasant way to spend a Saturday. Plus, it's good peace of mind knowing that the liner has a rock-solid connection to the insert with the adapter.



No...the extension pipe appears to be just a section of uninsulated rigid chimney liner. That's a good point about the creosote...I plan on doing a mid-season chimney sweep this weekend (first sweep with the new insert), so I'll check it out then. If there's a lot of creosote buildup in there, then I'll probably try running the insert without the extension and see if the draft is still adequate.
Fair enough.

I don't think the three L brackets provide a better connection than the "hook up liner system".

Life is too short to use the L brackets, when a superior system is less $ than one month heating bill.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,136
central pa
As someone who both installs and cleans stoves I can't stand those things. I have broken quite a few rods because of those things.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,136
central pa
And if you should never have to pull a liner down like that. Line it all up properly ahead of time with the proper fittings.
 

Easy Livin’ 3000

Minister of Fire
Dec 23, 2015
2,920
SEPA
As someone who both installs and cleans stoves I can't stand those things. I have broken quite a few rods because of those things.
I think this warrants further discussion.

Are you breaking rods from the top or bottom?

If you've done it multiple times, why are you not doing something different?

They are easy to see from the bottom.

Ask SBI to redesign, or do it yourself. I'm no engineer, but they could leave a center hole for the rods to go through. Use a similar fastener that is used on conduit.

If I never have to deal with those L brackets again, it'll be too soon.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,136
central pa
I think this warrants further discussion.

Are you breaking rods from the top or bottom?

If you've done it multiple times, why are you not doing something different?

They are easy to see from the bottom.

Ask SBI to redesign, or do it yourself. I'm no engineer, but they could leave a center hole for the rods to go through. Use a similar fastener that is used on conduit.

If I never have to deal with those L brackets again, it'll be too soon.
Yes breaking rods from the bottom some houses just are not safe or practical to clean from the roof.
 

Solarguy3500

Member
Dec 3, 2020
190
Western MA
And if you should never have to pull a liner down like that. Line it all up properly ahead of time with the proper fittings.

Since I'm getting ready to install my insert this is relevant to me too. I have calculated the angle that the flue is offset back from the center of where the stove outlet will be and it is about 13.9°. I was thinking about using one of those liner hookups, but would you recommend getting a 15° offset adapter instead?
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,136
central pa
Since I'm getting ready to install my insert this is relevant to me too. I have calculated the angle that the flue is offset back from the center of where the stove outlet will be and it is about 13.9°. I was thinking about using one of those liner hookups, but would you recommend getting a 15° offset adapter instead?
That depends how much height you have above the insert at that point. If you have enough room above the insert for that adapter and for the liner to make that bend. If you have enough height to negate the restriction caused by the bar across and you can clean from above easily then use it. If the answer to any of those things is no then I would not recommend it.
 

Solarguy3500

Member
Dec 3, 2020
190
Western MA
That depends how much height you have above the insert at that point. If you have enough room above the insert for that adapter and for the liner to make that bend. If you have enough height to negate the restriction caused by the bar across and you can clean from above easily then use it. If the answer to any of those things is no then I would not recommend it.

Good point. I have about 3' 10" from the stove outlet up through the tapered area above the firebox to where it enters the 12X12 clay flue tile. I will be installing a block off plate that will be about 5 7/8" above the top of the stove, but I can cut the hole in the plate as big as I need to for an adapter or stove hookup. The other thing I wonder is with almost 4' of liner from the flue tile to the stove, can I just bend the liner enough to connect directly with the straight appliance adapter that came with my liner?
 

Easy Livin’ 3000

Minister of Fire
Dec 23, 2015
2,920
SEPA
And if you should never have to pull a liner down like that. Line it all up properly ahead of time with the proper fittings.
If I'd have had even one inch less of clearance, there is no way I could have fastened the brackets down. As it was, it was nearly impossible. Then the connector would have been required. I'm sure this is a pretty common scenario, and why they sell the connector.

If I had to do it over, I'd have bought the connector and just removed the part that holds it to the stove when cleaning it. If necessary, replacing the part after the rotary head is past it. The bar in the middle of it is round, and I believe the rotary head can slip right past it. The sooteater head can.

Hex head sheet metal screws instead of the philips heads I used would have been better. But I think the philips heads came with the brackets, I can't recall.

I can see why you don't like the connector, as it is, it would be in the way of a rotary cleaner. It could be redesigned to accomplish it's application and still be completely out of the way for cleaning. If I'd have had more time and inspiration at the time, I'd have just built one. Three eye bolts with clips at bottom to connect to the inside of the stove, around the inside diameter of the connector. It'd be completely out of the way for cleaning, and allow for vertically tight installs.
 

JohnWW

Member
Jul 8, 2019
61
63119
Thanks! I'm not sure if this is the right product to use for a freestanding stove install (will you be using a flexible liner?), but here's the elbow I used: https://www.rockfordchimneysupply.c...omponents/fixed-elbow-for-flexible-liners.php

Like bholler says, I didn't realize I needed an elbow until after I ran the flexible liner down the chimney. While the liner is "flexible" to some degree, I needed that 30 degree bend in a fairly tight area (between the smoke shelf and the upper front part of the brick fireplace); the liner isn't flexible enough to accomplish that. Unfortunately, I don't have a picture. After I realized that I needed some type of elbow, I measured in the fireplace where the stove collar would be, and used a protractor to estimate the angle I needed between the color and the liner. Came out to pretty much exactly 30 degrees. I ordered the part from Rockford, and it was on my door in 3 days. Rockford also makes flexible elbows, but I read in an earlier post from bholler that using a fixed elbow is preferable. They also have a 15 degree fixed elbow.

I am still having difficulty in envisioning where the elbow is installed and why. A picture or diagram would be useful if anyone has one.
 
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JohnWW

Member
Jul 8, 2019
61
63119
Progress continues on the world's slowest insert install. Installed the insulation on the flexible chimney liner, using the procedure in this video. I used a insulation kit I got from Rockford Chimney, it came with all of the supplies and was a piece of cake to install.

View attachment 264621

Up on the roof...my flue is 11"x11" and is a straight shot, so it took all of about 20 seconds to drop the insulated liner down.

View attachment 264622

Attached a 30 degree elbow and Drolet liner hook-up adapter to the end of the liner, then stuffed the smoke shelf area with "Safe and Sound" Rockwool.

View attachment 264623

Next, installed the damper block off plate with Tapcons. I ended up cutting a big hole for the liner in the block off plate, which will give me plenty of wiggle-room when it comes time to install the insert. After the insert goes in, I'll cut a patch piece and use some rope gasket to seal around the liner. I figured cutting a big hole would end up being easier in the long run, instead of potentially having to lift the insert on and off the raised hearth multiple times to do test fittings.


View attachment 264624

Here's a close-up of the Drolet liner attachment fitting I ordered. I have very little excess vertical clearance to install the L brackets at the top of the insert, so I figured this was well worth the money. The steel cross bar installs inside the insert right above the baffle, and screws down to secure the liner to the stove.

View attachment 264625

I'm starting to see the finish line...last steps are to lift the insert in then install the top plate and cap up on the chimney. Oh yeah, I also need to apply some silicon around the block off plate. I'm back in a holding pattern until the stone work on the fireplace is done, though. Still waiting on the stone to come in, should be another week or so.
Couple of questions.
1. How much of the liner should be left unwrapped at the bottom? Is there any reason I wouldn't wrap insulation all the way to the connector and then just make a bigger hole in the block off plate?
2. Is there any reason I shouldn't use my existing chimney cap on top of the block off plate? I looks better than the one supplied with the kit and has a bird screen.
Thanks
 

Easy Livin’ 3000

Minister of Fire
Dec 23, 2015
2,920
SEPA
Couple of questions.
1. How much of the liner should be left unwrapped at the bottom? Is there any reason I wouldn't wrap insulation all the way to the connector and then just make a bigger hole in the block off plate?
2. Is there any reason I shouldn't use my existing chimney cap on top of the block off plate? I looks better than the one supplied with the kit and has a bird screen.
Thanks
I stripped off some liner insulation below the block off plate.

Two reasons:

First, it radiates a ton of heat into the insulated fireplace box, which had nowhere to go but into the house;

Second, I can see when it begins to glow (I don't use the surround). It starts to glow long before the stove overfires because it's thin metal, and gives me a greater degree of control through observation.

Regarding the cap, use whatever one you like that fits. I think some areas have code that require screens to keep sparks from lighting the forest on fire. This might be what you refer to as bird screen. Keep in mind, the screen will require attention, as it will accumulate creosote and probably clog without regular cleaning, even when the rest of the liner is clean.
 
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bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,136
central pa
Couple of questions.
1. How much of the liner should be left unwrapped at the bottom? Is there any reason I wouldn't wrap insulation all the way to the connector and then just make a bigger hole in the block off plate?
2. Is there any reason I shouldn't use my existing chimney cap on top of the block off plate? I looks better than the one supplied with the kit and has a bird screen.
Thanks
The cap does not go on top of the block off plate. It goes above the top plate. The blockoff plate is in the top of the firebox. And if your old cap fits and allows enough space between the liner and top of the cap it should be fine.

You can insulate all the way down but it makes positioning the liner much harder
 
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JohnWW

Member
Jul 8, 2019
61
63119
I stripped off some liner insulation below the block off plate.

Two reasons:

First, it radiates a ton of heat into the insulated fireplace box, which had nowhere to go but into the house;

Second, I can see when it begins to glow (I don't use the surround). It starts to glow long before the stove overfires because it's thin metal, and gives me a greater degree of control through observation.

Regarding the cap, use whatever one you like that fits. I think some areas have code that require screens to keep sparks from lighting the forest on fire. This might be what you refer to as bird screen. Keep in mind, the screen will require attention, as it will accumulate creosote and probably clog without regular cleaning, even when the rest of the liner is clean.
Good stuff - thanks. I will probably leave a smaller amount of liner exposed to observe the glow while I have the surround off and then add some more lining when I am more comfortable operating it and add the surround.
After I submitted that last post, it occurred to me that the top plate raises the exit point quite a bit so I will check that I have sufficient clearance to the top of the cap so as not to incur significant back pressure. The bird screen is a guard to keep birds etc out, but probably not as necessary as when I had 10" square. 6" diameter SS is probably less appealing. You are right about it building creosote, it was crudded up badly whereas the chimney wasn't too bad and easily cleaned. On balance, I think the provided SS one is the better choice.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,136
central pa
The liner should not be glowing
 
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JohnWW

Member
Jul 8, 2019
61
63119
The cap does not go on top of the block off plate. It goes above the top plate. The blockoff plate is in the top of the firebox. And if your old cap fits and allows enough space between the liner and top of the cap it should be fine.

You can insulate all the way down but it makes positioning the liner much harder
Yes - used the wrong terminology. I just posted a couple of minutes before and will rethink the insulation length accordingly. Thanks!
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
26,136
central pa
Yes - used the wrong terminology. I just posted a couple of minutes before and will rethink the insulation length accordingly. Thanks!
I thought that was probably the case
 

Easy Livin’ 3000

Minister of Fire
Dec 23, 2015
2,920
SEPA
The liner should not be glowing
You are correct about this, of course.

But I am certain that there are lots of liners glowing behind surrounds above fireplace inserts. Last time I caught mine glowing, the top of the stove, directly in front on the adapter, was at 730°, well below overfire for the stove. Everyplace else on the top of the stove was cooler than 730.
 
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JohnWW

Member
Jul 8, 2019
61
63119
And the saga continues...

I had originally bought the wrong type of Rockwool ('Comfortboard') by mistake, and couldn't return it because it was a special order return at Lowe's and on mega-sale. It's not really suitable for stuffing up the damper because it's rigid and just crumbles into pieces. I ended up using it to insulate the firebox, since the fireplace is on an exterior wall. I used the extra HVAC tape that came with my liner insultation kit to tape up the seams. If the insulation ends up making the insert too hot, it will be pretty easy to tear it out. I'll just see how it goes.


View attachment 265203

The stone masons were over today to install the fireplace veneer and hearthstone. They also helped me lift the insert in...turns out 3 people are pretty ideal for this task (2 lifting on the side and 1 in front). We laid down some strips of metal flashing on the hearth to protect the stone while sliding the unit in.


View attachment 265208

After watching these guys work, I'm REALLY glad I decided not to take on the stone work myself. These guys are real pros. They'll be back tomorrow to finish laying the stone veneer.

View attachment 265209 ...

This stone veneer is pretty cool...it's 'cultured' (aka synthetic) stone. We also looked at some real stone veneer, but we actually liked this stuff better.

View attachment 265210

Here's a shot of the inside of the stove, with the liner fastened using the Drolet accessory adapter. Really glad I didn't have to mess around with angle brackets, considering the tight vertical fit I was dealing with. Got a very secure, tight fit.


View attachment 265211
Trying to remove the firebox upper components to access the adapter. It's not obvious to me how to do this. Any advice would be appreciated. Update - just figured it out. Twist 90 degrees and slide right. Weird how I figure out stuff just after I post the question.
 
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Easy Livin’ 3000

Minister of Fire
Dec 23, 2015
2,920
SEPA
Trying to remove the firebox upper components to access the adapter. It's not obvious to me how to do this. Any advice would be appreciated. Update - just figured it out. Twist 90 degrees and slide right. Weird how I figure out stuff just after I post the question.
Yep, it's not obvious from looking at it, but it's explained clearly in the manual to my recollection.

"Wise-grips", the lawyers said, to avoid violating intellectual property rights. That lawyer should be fired for being an idiot.
 
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quantpsyc

New Member
Jan 10, 2021
1
NC
Hey, thanks for the kind words. I pretty much learned how to do all this by reading through posts on here; what a fantastic resource this forum is. Kudos to the staff and regular contributors.
WOW we just ordered the 1800i from costco and so happy to find this detailed help! a couple questions. now that you have burned a couple of months any additional words of wisdom? also, any concerns that the chimney cap has no screen?