Drolet Tundra Problems

[travwise]

Hello,

Recently had a Drolet Tundra installed. Before I go further let me state that I am new to wood burning, apologies for any of these questions if they seem stupid.

Fired it for the first time yesterday. It is currently hooked up to a thermostat upstairs. Not long after the air inlet damper closed the fire went down to only red embers (no flame) and the whole unit cooled substantially. I could put my had on the black chimney pipe coming directly out of the stove. Smoke was billowing out of the chimney on the roof. A few hours later the glass was covered in soot, and what appeared to be creosote was dripping out the back at one of the seams on the stove pipe.

I called the guy who installed it. He said it's burning WAY to cool and that with the stove going to stove pipe should be around 400 degrees. I asked why would be burning so cool, and said he had no idea.

The stove was loaded with well seasoned black ash. So I don't think it was a moisture content issue.

I've attached some photos of the install job.

Any ideas on what may be causing this "cool" burning?

 

[begreen]

The wood is the first suspect. It may not be fully seasoned. To test you will need to resplit some splits, then check moisture content on the freshly exposed face of wood. With the split at about room temperature, press the pins of the moisture meter firmly into the fresh wood. Or lacking a meter, hold the freshly exposed wood up against your cheek. If it feels cool and damp the wood is not fully seasoned.

The other possibility is that it is too warm outside. Wood furnaces are not the best for mild weather heating. Maybe try a smaller load of wood and set the thermostat to a higher room temp so that the furnace air inlet stays open much longer?

 

[travwise]

Ok sure, I wondered about that.

I was under the impression this unit burned all day with the air inlet damper closed...or closed most of the time. I'll buy a moisture meter and check the wood. Thanks.

 

[maple1]

You should have your chimney draft checked too - warm temps can kill that as mentioned above, but they could be off to start with depending on your chimn situation. A manometer is another very useful tool to have, not that expensive & you can use it to tune your chimney draft & ductwork pressures. Dwyer Mark II Model 25 is a popular one. I have one permanently mounted to my smoke pipe. Or if your installer guy is close, he could check it when you're burning, if he has one. But for the cost of one it's nice to have anyway.

 

[laynes69]

Just like a stove, the furnace must come up to temperate before the damper closes. If it's mild out and there's little heating demand, small splits work best that are stacked a little loose. Otherwise in cold weather where the heating demand is higher, larger splits will work better. The firebox is a decent sized one, so you'll need enough fuel to maintain a hot fire.

 

[STIHLY DAN]

I thought a full plenum on a Tundra was a no no. Had to use to specific outlets, a static pressure thing.

 

[travwise]

I thought a full plenum on a Tundra was a no no. Had to use to specific outlets, a static pressure thing.

Underneath the plenum only two outlets are open. Is this still a concern? Can you explain static pressure?

 

[cachunko]

I have a Yukon Eagle Polar 2 furnace. I had the same exact problem is you. First that that made the largest difference was adding replacement air. It's essentially a way to let fresh air into the basement. Like a reverse dryer vent. I'm telling you, this fixed 80% of my problem. I had creosote running down my barometric damper that would then seal it shut. It was running down and out the seams like honey. Second thing I did was adjust my fan limit switch so the furnace wouldnt blow heat until it reached a higher temp. Third thing I did was use smaller pieces of wood more frequently. Fourth thing I did was get a manometer to measure and set the barometric damper. After doing all these things, I had 10% of the creosote that I had before. Good luck!

 

[cachunko]

From what Yukon told me, when you have a big fire going, it's using up the oxygen in the basement. When there isn't much left down there, you don't get a complete burn in the fire and smoke, creating more creosote. Just adding the replacement air made a big difference. The problem is your damper is closed, choking down the fire. When the fire smolders, it doesn't burn completely, thus making more creosote. More moisture also makes more creosote. Open up some windows to keep the temp down near the thermostat to keep the damper open

 

[travwise]

I have a Yukon Eagle Polar 2 furnace. I had the same exact problem is you. First that that made the largest difference was adding replacement air. It's essentially a way to let fresh air into the basement. Like a reverse dryer vent. I'm telling you, this fixed 80% of my problem. I had creosote running down my barometric damper that would then seal it shut. It was running down and out the seams like honey. Second thing I did was adjust my fan limit switch so the furnace wouldnt blow heat until it reached a higher temp. Third thing I did was use smaller pieces of wood more frequently. Fourth thing I did was get a manometer to measure and set the barometric damper. After doing all these things, I had 10% of the creosote that I had before. Good luck!

Hey thanks buddy! What does your replacement air system look like? Is it just piped into the furnace room?

 

[cachunko]

This is a pic from my manual regarding replacement air.

 

[cachunko]

i used 4 inch pvc.

 

[cachunko]

This was the smoke pipe from my furnace before I made these changes. It was almost 100% plugged after about 3-4 months of use. I just cleaned my furnace pipe and chimney a week or two ago and there was only just a small amount this time. Made a very big difference - all of the things I did.

 

[cachunko]

When it's really windy out, it's incredible how much air the furnace pulls in from outside. You could literally blow dry your hair with how much air comes in. The purpose of the "J" trap on the bottom is to prevent air from just flowing in all of the time. It's supposed to only come in the basement as the furnace needs it.

 

[travwise]

Well I changed my chimney pipe around, removed an unnessary 90 degree elbow, have a raging fire going, with air inlet damper open, and cannot get flue temp to rise above 100 degrees???

 

[cachunko]

I'm not familiar with that furnace so I can't be much help. You want that thermostat close to the stove, before the damper. Aside from that, I'd guess its an air flow problem. Maybe the thermostat damper isn't opening right?

 

[cachunko]

I can open my ash pan door and let more o2 in that way and watch my flue temps rise. Can you do that? To see if its an air issue

 

[STIHLY DAN]

How long has this raging fire bee going for? It will take awhile at cold start, also you should only be seeing 250-300* when ripen.

 

[DoubleB]

I was under the impression this unit burned all day with the air inlet damper closed...or closed most of the time.

You're right, you should be able to achieve that from the furnace.

I agree with all the possibilities from the folks above. Based on my experience I'll reiterate a few:
-Draft is key, in part because it's very important to have the right draft, but very hard to know without a manometer. This might solve everything right there.
-The manual says you can close the damper once the firebox is full of flames. In my experience, that doesn't matter much. What matters for mine is whether the furnace and wood have reached cruising altitude (temperature), which can take 30 minutes or more from a cold start with the damper open for my furnace. (Or can be only 10 minutes if adding more wood to a lot of coals).
-I thought I had dry wood, but turns out not all of it was so dry. My moisture meter also thinks my wood is dryer than it is. You might have the same ailment without realizing it.

Another thought I don't think anyone mentioned is that I believe that firebrick absorbs moisture. The first time I burned a fire I had lots of steam pouring out my chimney, but maybe it was all from the wood and I was just imagining things? Anyways, if you have much moisture in your firebrick, that would probably put out your initial fire with the damper closed until you get the furnace hot for a while. I might be out to lunch on this one, though, so hopefully someone will correct me.

 

[laynes69]

Your not going to see 400° on the outside of the exhaust. You might see 300° with an open damper with a large load, but usually 250° or so with a high fire and 150° to 200° external when in cruizing mode. What size and type is your chimney, and what's the height?

 

[brenndatomu]

1. What has the temp been where you are? That can affect draft big time. External chimney? How tall? 6" flue?
2. How old is the wood you are burning? Also, what species? It really sounds like you have wet wood. Add some kiln dried lumber to your next load, cut up old pallets, lumber cut-offs, eco bricks or the like. That will help you get a good, hot fire going when you have wet wood.
3. Get that manometer, you really need to know what your draft is! They can be had for $20-$30 on ebay. Check the draft before you worry about a fresh air intake, that will tell you what you need to know. You could crack a window to test this theory if you want. The chimney makes the furnace work. No draft, no heat, too much draft, no heat.
4. My new stove took quite a few fires before the firebrick dried out and the thing really started to burn correctly.
5 Moisture meters are not always accurate, gets you a ballpark idea though.
6.Those external magnetic thermometers are notoriously inaccurate.
7.If the fire goes out with the damper closed, either you let it close to soon (wood not hot enough) or the wood is wet, or both.

If you have poor draft, wet wood, and wet firebrick all at the same time, well, that will just make ya mad enough to spit nails!

 

[maple1]

+1 on inaccurate magnetic thermometers.

I have one right beside my probe. When I'm burning, the magnetic reads a full 100c less than the probe.

 

[travwise]

First of all, thank you guys so much for all the advice. Very informative and much appreciated.

Manometer and moisture gauge are on order.

To answer other questions the furnace is installed in the basement in the center of my house. It's a one story home. It's masonry chimney with square clay flue. I'll measure tonight, guessing 7"x7". It's been about 30 degrees, and very windy.

Side note, I've contacted SBI they recommended installing a 6" stainless liner. Not sure if I could even get an insulated liner to fit without removing the clay flue. I'm willing to do this but worried about dropping another $1000 if this isn't the issue.

 

[brenndatomu]

Side note, I've contacted SBI they recommended installing a 6" stainless liner. Not sure if I could even get an insulated liner to fit without removing the clay flue. I'm willing to do this but worried about dropping another $1000 if this isn't the issue.

I'd wait to get a draft reading before making any liner decisions. If your chimney runs through the interior of your house, then you very well may be fine with a un-insulated liner, much cheaper. How tall is the chimney?
Just a thought, I really don't think this is your issue, but it may be a contributing factor. Check to make sure the baffle that sits on top of the secondary air tubes at the top of the firebox is sitting directly on the tubes, flat, and slid clear to the back. It would not work nearly as well if the baffle is out of place.

 

[plips_2002]

I just installed a Tundra in my home and I'm having the same problem. Black liquid coming out of the elbow that slopes upward towards my chimney. The chimney is about 25 foot tall and has 9x9 clay tile inside. It does not yet have a liner and I haven't installed my barometric damper yet but will be soon. The wood is good and thought I had enough makeup air but might add more. I let the fire get rolling before closing the damper and I do notice the flue pipe temps drop enough that I can put my hand on it. Should I just leave the damper open? Was going to hook it up to a t-stat tonight but I might wait until I get the damper. We have a stack of Dwyer Mark 2 type 25's at work, I'll snag one and get some hard line and install it, should it go before the barometric damper? Thanks all.