Dropped a tree into another tree

[Eric Johnson]

I've never gone wrong with Swedish "how-to" manuals and videos.

Seriously, they practically invented modern manual (and mechanized) logging techniques.

 

[wahoowad]

Eric,

What do you think of the technique? Is that for an advanced wielder of chainsaws? I ask as I was surprised to see his run the tip of the saw so far in (if at all).

Those saws seem to run amazingly smooth and powerful as well. Their dull chains are probably sharper than my sharp chains!

 

[Eric Johnson]

Really great video, Roos. Notice his use of wedges and his limbing technique. I was really impressed by the cant hook he made out of the strap and the sapling. I'm gonna have to try that! Looks like he was using a 346XP with the 13-inch bar. You can get away with that if you've got that kind of skill.

What he was doing with the tip was just a standard bore cut, Warren. You need to make sure your chain is sharp and your rakers are set at the correct depth if you want to try that. It's just a fancier way to get the same job done (as a straight notch-and-backcut), but it makes sense with the small bar. You can practice boring and see how you like it--just be aware that it's an opportunity for kickback.

Personally, I just do the std. felling approach with the notch and backcut.

This guy makes it look easy, which it certainly isn't.

 

[ecfinn]

That is a great video. For someone who's still trying to learn all he can about how to use a chainsaw safely, its encouraging to see someone that experienced show how its done properly. I particiularly liked the diagram showing how to line up the direction of fall and the demonstration of his limbing technique.

In the second video when he's cutting the downed trees, there is a section where they show green arrows and red arrows. Can someone explain to me what the meaning of those arrows was. I often cut downed trees from a storm and any safety tips doing that would be greatly appreciated.

Eric

 

[Roospike]

Really great video, Roos. Notice his use of wedges and his limbing technique. I was really impressed by the cant hook he made out of the strap and the sapling. I'm gonna have to try that! Looks like he was using a 346XP with the 13-inch bar. You can get away with that if you've got that kind of skill.

What he was doing with the tip was just a standard bore cut, Warren. You need to make sure your chain is sharp and your rakers are set at the correct depth if you want to try that. It's just a fancier way to get the same job done (as a straight notch-and-backcut), but it makes sense with the small bar. You can practice boring and see how you like it--just be aware that it's an opportunity for kickback.

Personally, I just do the std. felling approach with the notch and backcut.

This guy makes it look easy, which it certainly isn't.

Very true. It all does take practice.
I use the standard 90° face cut and the back cut. I also use the bore cut but its mostly for leaners as so your tree does not barber chair on ya - normally bore cuts do not use wedges because of the already lean , i would save it for the leanders and the more skilled chain saw user.

 

[Roospike]

That is a great video. For someone who's still trying to learn all he can about how to use a chainsaw safely, its encouraging to see someone that experienced show how its done properly. I particiularly liked the diagram showing how to line up the direction of fall and the demonstration of his limbing technique.

In the second video when he's cutting the downed trees, there is a section where they show green arrows and red arrows. Can someone explain to me what the meaning of those arrows was. I often cut downed trees from a storm and any safety tips doing that would be greatly appreciated.

Eric

Cutting up downed storm damage trees is very dangerous. If you look back throught the video you can see that the tree is under pressure one way or the other. You wouldnt want to cut a tree under pressure and have it whip back at you once cut.

 

[ourhouse]

Cutting storm damage is some of the most dangerous work we do. We have to keep an eye or two on the new guys when were working storm damage. Trees are twisted and smashed in ways you just can't believe. It can be very tough to read how trees and limbs are under tension. Always look things over very closely when working on a storm damaged tree. And always wear you'r PPE.

 

[velvetfoot]

And stay away from electric lines.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Everything these pros are telling you about storm-damaged timber is true. Really, the best way to salvage timber is with a machine, and even that can be risky. It's hard enough predicting what a standing tree will do, but when the timber is laying on the ground under who-knows-what stresses, best to walk away if you're not absolutely sure what you're doing.

When Sweden had a huge storm that blew down thousands of acres of timber the summer before last, they calculated in advance that at least 12 people would die in the salvage effort. I should check to see what the total actually was.

I don't know what the red and blue lines mean, either. Wish I spoke Swedish. Watching those videos reminded me of watching Bergman movies.

 

[ecfinn]

Believe me, I'm as careful as I can be. I spend a lot of time trying to understand exactly where the stresses are on a downed tree before I even get the saw out of the case. I figure I can always learn something new so I might as well ask. I cut up a 40' hickory that went down because the root ball came up. It took quite a bit longer than I originally thought because I had to spend so much time calculating which way the tree would lean next, and which branches were holding the weight, etc. I actually really enjoy doing that type of thing and using my brain that way. Its much closer to how my brain works than what I actually do for a living. I just don't get the opportunity very often. Thanks again everyone.

 

[Roospike]

The down fall to the video is .......... that it is in Swedish .
The up side is ........its the best video that i have seen for situations and chainsaw training such as these even if in a different language.

The one thing you will notice in the video is how relaxed the sawyer is and not being in a hurry , taking his time , looking around and assessing the situation before cutting.

I have cut with many different guys over the years and i always get a wise-n-himer that has to say something to me like "What the he(( ya waiting for" ...........kind of remark.

I always say "the option for a 70th birthday"

 

[Gibbonboy]

After cutting through a lot of storm-downed trees, I will agree that nothing makes for a more puckered posterior. A 10,000 lb. winch helps to move things around without someone having to be near the trees. You never know which way it will buck, snap, roll, or fly when you cut. Our recent floods left lots of downed wood, most will sit and rot because it's just too dangerous to cut. And I've had to do it in the dark, which makes things 10 times worse, even with floodlights on the trucks. We usually just cut enough to drag the tree out of the road until the state crew could clean it up in the daylight.

The storm video was great, how could a guy with a mustache like that be wrong?

I think the red arrows mean "cut like this, you get a chainsaw vasectomy".

 

[ecfinn]

regarding the "chainsaw vasectomy" and the arrows.

Is there a right/wrong side of a downed trunk to be on when cutting the last section from the rootball? It seemed that he wanted the engine to be on the side of the root ball vs. the other side. Any reason for that? Or is the only concern having adequate access to back away from the trunk without obstructions or which direction its likely to spin/twist/fall/etc after its cut?

Thanks,
Eric

 

[Eric Johnson]

The anticipated movement of the trunk (if any) is the overriding consideration, because you don't want it moving in your direction. Meanwhile, you need to plan for the unexpected, so you also need a good escape path if things don't work out.

With those two things taken care of, pay close attention to what happens as you begin to cut through the trunk. The cut should open up the way you expected, and you should be cutting in such a way that the saw won't bind when the trunk moves. If it does, then you know you miscalculated and you will have time to reassess the situation.

A good approach to severing a tree still attached to the rootball is to start cutting at the top of the tree, paying attention to what happens as you cut the upper limbs free. Be very careful here as well, because branches under tension can also be very dangerous and unpredictible, and cutting them loose can also cause the trunk to move around. If you can clear the trunk of branches, then the odds of it moving unexpectedly when you sever the root ball, decline.

 

[BrotherBart]

The anticipated movement of the trunk (if any) is the overriding consideration, because you don't want it moving in your direction. Meanwhile, you need to plan for the unexpected, so you also need a good escape path if things don't work out.

With those two things taken care of, pay close attention to what happens as you begin to cut through the trunk. The cut should open up the way you expected, and you should be cutting in such a way that the saw won't bind when the trunk moves. If it does, then you know you miscalculated and you will have time to reassess the situation.

A good approach to severing a tree still attached to the rootball is to start cutting at the top of the tree, paying attention to what happens as you cut the upper limbs free. Be very careful here as well, because branches under tension can also be very dangerous and unpredictible, and cutting them loose can also cause the trunk to move around. If you can clear the trunk of branches, then the odds of it moving unexpectedly when you sever the root ball, decline.

That and those loaded springs known as smaller trees that the big one bent but didn't break on its way down. I have had a few of those whiz by my head at light speed.

This whole thread seems like old home week. Every thing I have been cutting for the last two years, and the upcoming two, is all tangled, leaning and generally messed up tornado remains. I hate the ones broken in half with the top half still attached and the bottom standing tall. There is no way in the world to predicte what is going to happen with those things.

As to root balls. I always cut the bottom standing on the side that allows the saw and root ball to be to the right of me. When those things decide to plop back in the hole that stump comes at ya quick. If it hits the saw bar I want it going away from me.

 

[Eric Johnson]

That's a good point about the stump knocking the saw into you.

I was almost neutered one time back in my '20s when cutting a spring pole.

 

[Gibbonboy]

For springpoles and hairy situations with small stuff, I keep a bow saw handy. the Bahco (Sandvik) 22" is the best that I've found. You can control the cut very precisely, no spinning chain, and you can stop when you hear it start to give. Little bit slower, but you can only get killed once, or worse crippled for life. I've even strapped my little pruning saw to a pole to get me out of the situation altogether, cut from 10' away.

Like the saying goes: "When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail." Besides, it's nice to cut wood quietly once in a while.

 

[Burn-1]

Can we get saws here in the US with that secondary chain brake located near the throttle? That seems like a good idea.

 

[Eric Johnson]

I'm glad somebody noticed that. The only place I've seen them was at a trade show in Sweden. They're not sold in this country, and probably won't be unless somebody passes a law requiring them.

The way it was described to me was: "This protects you from kickback when you are using the saw above your shoulder height. You're not supposed to use the saw that way, but this will protect you when you do."

It looks like it might get in the way, but I fooled around with the saw (though not running) and it was not an issue.

 

[suematteva]

I saw that also..wonder if it is an aftermarket type thing we could throw on ourselves???