Dutchwest Stoves Website gone?

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vinny11950

Minister of Fire
May 17, 2010
1,660
Eastern Long Island, NY
Netmouse, that's great to see.

Are you going to get one?
 

raybonz

Minister of Fire
Feb 5, 2008
6,208
Carver, MA.
I still like how they build these stoves with solid cast iron interiors.. My old CDW was very durable and hardly ever needed a part.. A drawback is the stove cement they use to seal these stoves tends to deteriorate over time.. It's cheap to reseal but requires stove disassembly.. I never bothered but did use a little from inside the stove and it was OK.. It didn't leak enough to cause overfire so no big deal.. I wouldn't mind owning another one... I would avoid the non-cat version.. The DW stoves all use the same cat and they are easy to find and inexpensive (6" dia. x 2" tk.)..

Ray
 

netmouse

Member
May 25, 2008
110
North NJ
As to if I'll buy DW, I'm uncertain. My needs are winter months (day temp below 40 degrees) from Dec to March. I don't do Fall or Spring, and am fine keeping oil low. I start stove at 4 pm and stop loading wood at 9 pm. Stove still warm enough in morning so oil does not kick on.

From what I've read, this is not good usage for a cat as too short a duration to really get a cat going and take advantage of it's long, low burn. And non-cat DW everyburn seems unpopular here. Seeing what else is sold in my area (north NJ), I am leaning towards the Jotul 500 Oslo - a bit pricey but has what I'm used to with how it works and it has a left side door (I am replacing a 25-year old warped non-cat Vermont Casting Defiant). I am steering away from the Regency as there is front door only (no side or top door). I was wondering about Regency's stack of bricks lining the steel body inside, and not sure if that is good or not good.

Any thoughts or advice is welcome.
 

leeave96

Minister of Fire
Apr 22, 2010
1,113
Western VA
netmouse said:
As to if I'll buy DW, I'm uncertain. My needs are winter months (day temp below 40 degrees) from Dec to March. I don't do Fall or Spring, and am fine keeping oil low. I start stove at 4 pm and stop loading wood at 9 pm. Stove still warm enough in morning so oil does not kick on.

From what I've read, this is not good usage for a cat as too short a duration to really get a cat going and take advantage of it's long, low burn. And non-cat DW everyburn seems unpopular here. Seeing what else is sold in my area (north NJ), I am leaning towards the Jotul 500 Oslo - a bit pricey but has what I'm used to with how it works and it has a left side door (I am replacing a 25-year old warped non-cat Vermont Casting Defiant). I am steering away from the Regency as there is front door only (no side or top door). I was wondering about Regency's stack of bricks lining the steel body inside, and not sure if that is good or not good.

Any thoughts or advice is welcome.
I'm not sure I understand why you wouldn't do fall or spring as a cat stove is excellent for those shoulder season burns.

I think if you load the stove up at 9 pm, you will have a good heat output over night with enough coals to re-light the next morning.

I think the Dutchwest cat stoves offer a lot of bang for the buck - but you can't go wrong with the Oslo either.

Good luck,
Bill
 

VCBurner

Minister of Fire
Jan 2, 2010
1,509
Templeton, MA
netmouse said:
Glad I found this thread. I just priced a DutchWest today that would replace my big old Defiant. I am also researching the Jotul Oslo 500. I noticed the disappearance of the website for DutchWest and that makes me very nervous and less likely to buy it.

What is the feeling here on the DW cat versus non-cat? I use my Defiant in winter (usually just Dec, Jan, and Feb, other cold days) starting about 4 p.m., and stop feeding wood about 10 p.m. Stove is still warm (oil furnace does not kick on) when I get up about 5 or 6 a.m. The Defiant without cat has been fine, and I don't think I want fussing with a cat and replacing it in a few years if a non-cat is "good enough".
The first question asked of you should have been how much space are you looking to heat and where is your stove located as well as how open is the layout of your home. This is the only way anyone could come close to understanding what stove you really need.

It sounds to me like you might need a larger stove than the Jotul Oslo. If you had to replace a Defiant a more comparable size would be the Jotul 600 Firelight. As far as the lighting of the stove at 4pm and reloading at 10pm, you'd be better off starting the stove in the morning and getting it to keep ashes for an evening reload, regardless of the stove you chose. This way you'd still be filling twice a day and getting more even heat throughout the day and using less oil during YOUR burn season and possibly still using the same amount of wood. It takes a lot more wood to get a cold stove up to temp than to refill a warm stove and get a nice even burn without all the peaks and valleys.

Regarding the cat vs. non-cat argument, you'd have to try them for yourself and see which one you like best. The new Jotuls cannot be compared with an old Defiant, though. Yes they are both non-cats, but are just completely different in secondary burn systems. The Jotul has reburn tubes and Defiant has a downdraft reburn chaimber that is not even an EPA rated system. So as far as thinking that you are familiar with the Jotul beacuse it is a non cat like the Defiant, you may be surprised when you buy your new stove. The Defiant does not reburn at the same rate as the newer Jotuls or Dutchwest stoves. As far as the cat Dutchwest, it is probably one of the most durable stoves on the market today. Double wall cast iron construction, cast iron baffle (I've never heard of anyone breaking one of these.) The catalyst does not need replacement every couple of years. With your short heating season it may last as long as ten years. The manufacturers generally give them a 6 year lifespan, but it is not unheard to have them last longer if taken care of properly. Although I understand people's concern with the instability of the companies that have owned the VC and DW lines in the past. It is a shame to see the line become a victim or corporate shuffling. The Dw line has remained the same since around 1993 and continues to be a great design so I doubt it'll go anywhere. The 6x2 cats they use are very common and are some of the cheapest around. I don't know where you heard cat stoves are not good for short burn periods? Cat stoves are known for their capability to achieve secondary burns on smaller loads and the flexibility they offer. You can burn a cat stove for short intervals with great results. You can also load up a Dutchwest XL at 4pm and leave it for the rest of the night if you wished. The stove would be heating until about 4am on a load of seasoned high btu hardwood. The other option would be to load it at 7am and 7pm, or every twelve hours (whatever fits your schedule) and use close to zero oil. I can't speak for the Jotuls because I've never owned one, but I can say that if you are buying a smaller stove (Oslo) and expecting it to stand up to a giant stove like the Defiant you may be disappointed with the results. Consider the more comparably sized Jotul Firelight. I'm biased toward the Dw only because I loved my Large Cat but plenty of people around here rave about their Jotuls.

Good luck.
Chris
 

BrowningBAR

Minister of Fire
Jul 22, 2008
7,609
San Tan Valley, AZ
VCBurner said:
It sounds to me like you might need a larger stove than the Jotul Oslo. If you had to replace a Defiant a more comparable size would be the Jotul 600 Firelight. As far as the lighting of the stove at 4pm and reloading at 10pm, you'd be better off starting the stove in the morning and getting it to keep ashes for an evening reload, regardless of the stove you chose. This way you'd still be filling twice a day and getting more even heat throughout the day and using less oil during YOUR burn season and possibly still using the same amount of wood. It takes a lot more wood to get a cold stove up to temp than to refill a warm stove and get a nice even burn without all the peaks and valleys.

You are correct, an Oslo produces less heat than a Defiant. The Oslo would be better compared to the Encore. The F600 is the better choice when comparing heat out put with a Defiant.
 

netmouse

Member
May 25, 2008
110
North NJ
Thanks everyone for input. I've had Jotul installer at my house. Said Jotul Oslo 500, and house size is about 1700 sf and falls within Oslo's range in specs.
 

VCBurner

Minister of Fire
Jan 2, 2010
1,509
Templeton, MA
netmouse said:
Thanks everyone for input. I've had Jotul installer at my house. Said Jotul Oslo 500, and house size is about 1700 sf and falls within Oslo's range in specs.
This may be true, but you still won't get the same amount of heat you used to get with the Defiant though!
 

netmouse

Member
May 25, 2008
110
North NJ
What puzzles me on the DW cat, is that while the emissions are lower than other brands (1.3 compared to Jotul 3.2), the BTU is so much lower. Can someone explain the lower dw BTU at 55000, while Jotul is 70000 and Regency is 75000 ? The efficiencies are similar around 75%.

Also, on creosote build-up. With my current VC Defiant stove, once the fire gets burning really well leaving the side door open, I then shut the door and the damper. It then cruises nicely settling at a lower temp (the temperature on the pipe a couple of feet above the stove is about 300, not higher). After a recent cleaning the sweep said the stove inside had more creosote than usual. Can you explain how to prevent that - does a start-up need really high heat for a set amount of time like a half hour, before putting it into cruise mode at a lower temp?
 

netmouse

Member
May 25, 2008
110
North NJ
VCBurner said:
netmouse said:
Thanks everyone for input. I've had Jotul installer at my house. Said Jotul Oslo 500, and house size is about 1700 sf and falls within Oslo's range in specs.
This may be true, but you still won't get the same amount of heat you used to get with the Defiant though!
Right, but per next post I cruise the Defiant at a lower temp anyway. It may be too big. It was put in by prior house owner 25 years ago.
 

kingquad

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2010
669
Pennsylvania
Manufacturer BTU claims are useless. The important thing is firebox size. A cat stove will give you the ability to burn slower and more controlled. On a non cat, you must use load size to regulate heat output.
 

VCBurner

Minister of Fire
Jan 2, 2010
1,509
Templeton, MA
You still havent answered my first questions on layout and stove location, then there is age of house/insulation, windows and doors and energy efficiency of your home. These are all factors that some installers are not willing to go into, some may just be trying to fit a stove of your budget into their sale. It may be true, but I know for sure not too many people here complain because their stove is too small, most complain about not enough heat. But, he could be right, it all depends on all these factors.
 

BrowningBAR

Minister of Fire
Jul 22, 2008
7,609
San Tan Valley, AZ
VCBurner said:
netmouse said:
Thanks everyone for input. I've had Jotul installer at my house. Said Jotul Oslo 500, and house size is about 1700 sf and falls within Oslo's range in specs.
This may be true, but you still won't get the same amount of heat you used to get with the Defiant though!

I can not stress the importance of this post. The Oslo does not put out the same heat as the Defiant. The Oslo's firebox is about 2 cu ft. The Defiant is over 3 cu ft.
 

BrowningBAR

Minister of Fire
Jul 22, 2008
7,609
San Tan Valley, AZ
netmouse said:
VCBurner said:
netmouse said:
Thanks everyone for input. I've had Jotul installer at my house. Said Jotul Oslo 500, and house size is about 1700 sf and falls within Oslo's range in specs.
This may be true, but you still won't get the same amount of heat you used to get with the Defiant though!
Right, but per next post I cruise the Defiant at a lower temp anyway. It may be too big. It was put in by prior house owner 25 years ago.

Right, you are talking about the old pre-epa Defiant. Which was huge. The current Defiant is smaller at 3.1 cu ft. The Oslo is about 2 cu ft which is about the same size as the Vigilant I run.
 

BrowningBAR

Minister of Fire
Jul 22, 2008
7,609
San Tan Valley, AZ
netmouse said:
What puzzles me on the DW cat, is that while the emissions are lower than other brands (1.3 compared to Jotul 3.2), the BTU is so much lower. Can someone explain the lower dw BTU at 55000, while Jotul is 70000 and Regency is 75000 ? The efficiencies are similar around 75%.

Also, on creosote build-up. With my current VC Defiant stove, once the fire gets burning really well leaving the side door open, I then shut the door and the damper. It then cruises nicely settling at a lower temp (the temperature on the pipe a couple of feet above the stove is about 300, not higher). After a recent cleaning the sweep said the stove inside had more creosote than usual. Can you explain how to prevent that - does a start-up need really high heat for a set amount of time like a half hour, before putting it into cruise mode at a lower temp?

Like others have said, ignore claimed BTU ratings and focus on firebox size. Which model Defiant do you have?
 

BrowningBAR

Minister of Fire
Jul 22, 2008
7,609
San Tan Valley, AZ
Chettt said:
Dutchwest/Vermont Castings doesn't have a good reputation in wood stoves anymore. They are probably trying to use a different name.

I wouldn't go that far.
 

VCBurner

Minister of Fire
Jan 2, 2010
1,509
Templeton, MA
Chettt said:
Dutchwest/Vermont Castings doesn't have a good reputation in wood stoves anymore. They are probably trying to use a different name.
They still call it Dutchwest though, so it wouldn't make much of a difference just changing the "by Vermont Castings" portion of the name. I think it's probably more like coorporate tactics of shuffling product around to increase sales. While VC dealers may have lots of cast iron stoves and DW stoves would get lost in the mix, the Majestic dealers may benefit from the addition of a good selling line like the Dutchwest. IMO, what they are thinking is it may increase both Dutchwest and Majestic sales in the long run.
 
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