Dutchwest XL Catalitic Problem?

[SLASHnBurn]

I can't seem to consistently engage Cat mode on my Dutchwest XL. Even with good dry oak I have a hard time getting the Cat. Temperature up to 800 degrees
even when the temps on my door are well in the red.
My Cat is ceramic and in great condition. I replaced the gasket around it, its not the tightest seal, but it is the factory gasket.

I am wondering if a SS Catalitic would help solve this?

 

[leeave96]

How old is your cat? How does the fire burn otherwise? Do you have smoke out the chimney? Your cat might be bad. I have a SS cat in my Woodstock stove and like it.

Good luck,
Bill

 

[SLASHnBurn]

The Cat has not been replaced since the stove was new in 2005, but the stove was hardly used at all ( burned six cords wood total ). When I took the Cat out and looked at it, all the chambers were clear
and it looked perfect to me. Stove works great with the damper open. A few times I have gotten the Cat to work with a good clean burn, no smoke out the chimney, but that is rare. I often get the Cat temp up to about 800 degrees, close the damper to engage the Cat and the stove will just smolder for hours and slowly lose temp.

Thanks for your response,

Mark

 

[leeave96]

If you go to woodstove.com, Woodstock has some great literature for free download that talks about catalyist combustors and how to use them. They also have some pretty good prices on replacement cats. I think the Dutchwest has a round cat and I think Woodstock sells one - don't know if it will fit, but worth asking.

Be very careful on their website or you might find yourself buying a new stove vs a new cat...

Good luck,
Bill

 

[certified106]

I have burned wood in a Dutchwest XL for 20+ years and the only time I have experienced not being able to get the cat to light off was
1) If the cat is worn out or plugged up which shouldn't be the case if you have only burned 6 cords of wood through the cat
2) If the wood was not dry enough (If you have been burning marginal wood and not getting the cat to light off it will plug up the Cat very quickly)
Can you tell us a little bit more about your setup specifically, what wood you are burning, how long it has been cut split and stacked, what size is your chimney, and how tall is your chimney. Also did this problem just occur recently?

 

[SLASHnBurn]

Thanks for the responses. Bill - I did go to the Woodstock website and you are right it is a great source of information - Thanks. I found it interesting that Woodstock indicates that you can engage the Cat at around 500 degrees. I think I recall reading that for the Dutchwest XL the stove needs to be up around 800 degrees before engageing the Cat. Maybe Certified106 can comment on what temps have worked for him in this regard? I bought my 2005 Dutchwest XL used from a guy who said he had only burned 6 cords with it and I believe him because the stove is mint. I removed the Cat to inspect it and it was super clean, no blockages or deformaties - it is ceramic. I did notice that the seal around where it sits was loose so I replaced the gasket there, but it is not air tight. What is that big machined white block of refractory made of that covers the Cat? Anyone know? I am thinking of getting a Stainless Steel Cat even though my ceramic looks perfect it is about 7 years old. I am finding it
a bit hard to keep the the doors air tight on the stove as the adjusters seem to come loose with use. All the gaskets are perfect, but the ash door doesn't seal as well as the others.
My Chimney is a total of 12' and the draw is great. First 6' is 8" Selkirk double wall black straight out the top of the stove with one 45 before it mates with 8" ID Metalbestos Stainless Steel insulated, out the roof for another six feet. My wood is mostly oak and an assortment of other hard woods. I don't have a lot of land so I am getting it from a local tree guy who says it was spilt but not stacked for a year.
I have stacked it in a nice sunny , breezy spot for a couple of months. Some is perfect and some a bit damp still. The difficulty with getting a good clean Cat burn has been going on since I installed the stove 10 weeks ago. I have not had any of the dreaded Backpuffing. I am sure much of this is down to my learning curve more than a hardware issue, but any guidance will be very welcome!
Thanks,
Mark

 

[SLASHnBurn]

Thanks for the responses. Bill - I did go to the Woodstock website and you are right it is a great source of information - Thanks. I found it interesting that Woodstock indicates that you can engage the Cat at around 500 degrees. I think I recall reading that for the Dutchwest XL the stove needs to be up around 800 degrees before engageing the Cat. Maybe Certified106 can comment on what temps have worked for him in this regard? I bought my 2005 Dutchwest XL used from a guy who said he had only burned 6 cords with it and I believe him because the stove is mint. I removed the Cat to inspect it and it was super clean, no blockages or deformaties - it is ceramic. I did notice that the seal around where it sits was loose so I replaced the gasket there, but it is not air tight. What is that big machined white block of refractory made of that covers the Cat? Anyone know? I am thinking of getting a Stainless Steel Cat even though my ceramic looks perfect it is about 7 years old. I am finding it
a bit hard to keep the the doors air tight on the stove as the adjusters seem to come loose with use. All the gaskets are perfect, but the ash door doesn't seal as well as the others.
My Chimney is a total of 12' and the draw is great. First 6' is 8" Selkirk double wall black straight out the top of the stove with one 45 before it mates with 8" ID Metalbestos Stainless Steel insulated, out the roof for another six feet. My wood is mostly oak and an assortment of other hard woods. I don't have a lot of land so I am getting it from a local tree guy who says it was spilt but not stacked for a year.
I have stacked it in a nice sunny , breezy spot for a couple of months. Some is perfect and some a bit damp still. The difficulty with getting a good clean Cat burn has been going on since I installed the stove 10 weeks ago. I have not had any of the dreaded Backpuffing. I am sure much of this is down to my learning curve more than a hardware issue, but any guidance will be very welcome!
Thanks,
Mark

 

[Todd]

Sounds like your wood is the problem. Oak can take 2 years or more to dry out unless it's standing dead and even that isn't always dry. Chimney may be a little a little on the short side as well.

 

[Trktrd]

+1 on the chimney length. I also have a shorter than optimal chimney and have to start with pretty aggresssive fires to get the cat lit and everything cruising smoothly. I just ordered another 2' section of class A and will be installing it tomorrow. Will update you on any changes in performance. Probably could have used 3-4' section but don't want to get into having to install braces for it.

 

[certified106]

Thanks for the responses. Bill - I did go to the Woodstock website and you are right it is a great source of information - Thanks. I found it interesting that Woodstock indicates that you can engage the Cat at around 500 degrees. I think I recall reading that for the Dutchwest XL the stove needs to be up around 800 degrees before engageing the Cat. Maybe Certified106 can comment on what temps have worked for him in this regard? I bought my 2005 Dutchwest XL used from a guy who said he had only burned 6 cords with it and I believe him because the stove is mint. I removed the Cat to inspect it and it was super clean, no blockages or deformaties - it is ceramic. I did notice that the seal around where it sits was loose so I replaced the gasket there, but it is not air tight. What is that big machined white block of refractory made of that covers the Cat? Anyone know? I am thinking of getting a Stainless Steel Cat even though my ceramic looks perfect it is about 7 years old. I am finding it
a bit hard to keep the the doors air tight on the stove as the adjusters seem to come loose with use. All the gaskets are perfect, but the ash door doesn't seal as well as the others.
My Chimney is a total of 12' and the draw is great. First 6' is 8" Selkirk double wall black straight out the top of the stove with one 45 before it mates with 8" ID Metalbestos Stainless Steel insulated, out the roof for another six feet. My wood is mostly oak and an assortment of other hard woods. I don't have a lot of land so I am getting it from a local tree guy who says it was spilt but not stacked for a year.
I have stacked it in a nice sunny , breezy spot for a couple of months. Some is perfect and some a bit damp still. The difficulty with getting a good clean Cat burn has been going on since I installed the stove 10 weeks ago. I have not had any of the dreaded Backpuffing. I am sure much of this is down to my learning curve more than a hardware issue, but any guidance will be very welcome!
Thanks,
Mark

Reading your above post confirmed my suspicions, that your wood is most likely the culprit in this situation. Oak needs at a very minimum 2 years of sitting cut split and stacked before I would even consider trying to burn it. The Dutchwest stove are very very unforgiving of wet wood or marginal wood and I can sympathize with how frustrating it is to get this stove to burn marginal wood as I have been there done that. You can have the stove blazing hot and as soon as you shut the bypass damper the flames die out and it begins to smolder or burn very lazily even with the primary air open all the way. I can remember having to burn over half the load before I could even close the bypass damper at times. and at that point there really aren't very many gasses for the cat to even burn when/if you get it shut down. I highly doubt that any of the wood is perfect given the very short amount of time it has had to dry out.

Once you have dry wood the stove will perform so much better you won't be able to believe it. I very rarely would wait until the surface of the stove was 500° before engaging the cat. I kept a magnetic thermometer on the side loading door and when it would reach between 300-400°F I would close the bypass damper but open the primary up all the way and ususally within 10-15 minutes the cat temp would be up around 800 and I would begin shutting the air all the way back down. The cat would then hold 800-1300° for hours before slowly falling back down. The key to all of this is get very very dry wood! Realistically at a minimum you should have next years already split stacked and waiting for you. Your best bet for this year is to split all the pieces very small to allow them to dry quicker and give them more surface area to burn. Also you could try to find someone who has some really dry wood and trade them for some of yours so you could mix it in with the wet wood to help it burn.

I didn't pull the manual but it sounds like the chimney is a little bit on the short side as these stove really need a strong draft. The ash door should be looked at as it needs to seal very tight to keep the stove from turning into a blast furnace when your wood is better. With my Dutchwest I would just let the ash pan fill completely up every season and never empty it for the rest of the burn season. I found that the stove ran better with a good 1-2" of ash in it and would just remove some from the firebox as needed throughout the year.

Good luck and don't hesitate to keep asking questions or asking for clarification on something you don't understand as we have all been there and are more than happy to help.

 

[certified106]

Just looked at the manual and it states "the chimney should extend at least 16' above the flue collar of the stove". I would really recommend installing a minimum of 4 more feet of pipe which should help your stove draft a lot better! Do you have the manual for your stove? If not PM me and I can send it to you or I believe you can still get the manual on Majestic's website where the Dutchwest is still being sold.

here is the exact wording.....
"For proper draft and good performance, the chimney should extend at least 16’ (5 m) above the flue collar of the stove.
The chimney must also extend at least 3’ (900 mm) above the highest point where it passes through a roof, and at least 2’ (600 mm) higher than any portion of a building within 10’ (3 m). (Fig. 2)"

 

[Trktrd]

Not trying to hijack slash's thread, but is there a general "average height" for cat stove chimneys?? I know mine is too short and if I'm going to shell out the money for another section, I want to be sure it will make a difference. I currently have a tad over 11' total. Can't complain, the stove works and keeps us warm, temps where they should be. Just want the best performance.

 

[Todd]

Not trying to hijack slash's thread, but is there a general "average height" for cat stove chimneys?? I know mine is too short and if I'm going to shell out the money for another section, I want to be sure it will make a difference. I currently have a tad over 11' total. Can't complain, the stove works and keeps us warm, temps where they should be. Just want the best performance.

It's usually in the stove manual. I think most stoves just go with somewhere around 15" + or - a foot. Probably the height of the chimney that it was tested with at the lab. This is also straight up, if you have any elbows or bends it's a good idea to add a little more.

 

[SLASHnBurn]

Thanks Cert106 and other responders. I guess another hint that my wood is the issue is that performance can vary from load to load. I will endevor to get another couple cords of
super dry wood to mix in with current stock. I also have a Black Locust to take down to introduce to my wood mix. I have another 4 foot class A Chimney section to add
once I get a brace kit for it. Cert106 - I was wondering where you liked to set your primary and secondary air intakes when you were in Cat mode? I would like to try that with
dry wood. Also - has anyone tried the Stainless Steel Cats and noticed a positive benefit? Are they any better suited to deal wit maginal wood? Can you really engage them at lower temps?
Thanks again to all!

 

[Todd]

The biggest advantage of the steel cat besides quicker light offs is resistant to thermo shock so they won't break apart like ceramic cats. This probably makes it easier to get away with burning less than dry wood if you burn a little hotter and wait longer to engage the cat. The downside is they have smaller cells which can plug up easier if you smoulder burn with wet wood. It's best to just get a year or two ahead on wood and you won't have a problem. So far I haven't noticed any difference in heat output between my two stoves and one has steel and the other has ceramic.