E-Bikes

[peakbagger]

I picked up an E- mountain bike last year but did not get to use it much due to some balance issues related to Covid shots. I have been getting serious about using it this year. I wanted a bike for rough roads so I wanted front suspension with mountain bike tires. After researching I wanted to go with a "mid drive" as they seem to be the most durable. There is a lot of chinese crap out there on the market for a lot cheaper much of it designed to be adapted to a conventional bike. From what I read, it works but not particularly reliable and forget things like support. I went with a Bosch Mid drive which has good reviews. Bikes in general are an assemblage of mostly the same components from just a few manufacturers installed on a frame that may or may not be made by the bike factory. Mine is equipped with mostly mid to high grade components from known manufacturers. E-bikes have been hard to get and still are so mine was bought on line from Redmond Washington (a very big biking area with lots of bike trails (and Microsoft money to keep them maintained) and shipped to my house. E bikes come in three "Classes" Class 1 is E assist, it has no throttle and only assists when the bike is pedaled and is limited to 20 MPH assist, Class 2 has a throttle and does not need to be pedaled (or it can be pedal assist) and limited to 25 mph assist. Class 3 are pedal assist only but top out at 28 MPH assist. The Class of e-bike is important to some as various trail systems and parks limit e-bikes to Class 1. Note there are quite a few hacks out there to boost speed and most of the Chinese components have no limits.

I really havent used a bike since high school on a frequent basis other than on rare occasions spotting a regular bike at the end of a hike to get back to my car. I used to be tolerant of the typical lean forward riding position and was quite good at riding with no hands on the 10 speed I used on my paper route. These days the lean forward position is far less comfortable for me. Unlike the old style adjustable headpieces, most modern bikes use a fixed stem piece but after trying out the bike I got a stem piece extension to raise the handle bars. That really helps on comfort, although my hands still arent used to the pressure on them. More of a challenge is the seat. Despite an added gel seat cover, the only rear suspension is a rear tire full of air. That is taking a bit of getting used to. The other "tool" that I had in stock from years ago is a bike helmet. With some new internal foam pads, I was ready to go.

I am lucky in that I have a rail trail in my area called the Cross NH Trail. https://www.xnhat.org/. It is hard to beat the location and scenery running through the White Mountains and a National Wildlife Refuge. It's fairly new but unlike a typical rail trail, the surface is a lot rougher in spots than a typical rail trail so wide tire mountain bikes preferably with a front suspension is the way to go. I am working my way up for distance and effort. Currently I drive to a road crossing and then ride a distance with no e-assist and then turn around at another road crossing and come back with assist. Twenty MPH may not sound much but on a bike on a sketchy roadbed its plenty. I usually take a day off between trips. So far I have been sticking to rail trails but the next stretch is on rural roads. At least this time of year I am not the only one using the trails, in the Wildlife Refuge, I passed horses, day hikers, backpackers on the Cohos Trail backpacking trail (170 miles long that runs to the Canadian Border,) Class 1 and Class 2 E bikes and folks out walking their dogs. Once I get myself broken in I will be using the bike for spotting my car for hiking and lots of other rail trails nearby to try out. The Cross NH trail connect to the Cross VT trail (a work in progress).

E Assist is interesting, best way to describe it is something is pushing the bike from the rear so pedaling gets easier. The bike has a seven speed derailer in addition to the mid drive. I can switch between assist levels on the fly and have an info screen that tracks power use and keeps track of time and distance as well as constantly calculates range left. On the flat and level a full battery has about 50 miles of range, pedaling a lot bumps up the range while switching to more assist drops the range. So far I stick to low or medium assist ranges as the upper ranges appear to be sized for agressive mountain biking. The battery pack is secured to the bike frame with a pretty beefy built-in lock and the display slips off and "bricks" the E-assist although someone could ride away unless I throw on a lock.

Its definitely a new hobby to add to my hiking for now and more so when I eventually fully retire.

 

[EbS-P]

Wife and I started tandem biking years ago. Moved the city and kids mean we don’t get out much now. But we did treat out selves to a tandem fat bike for the beach here. Roads just aren’t safe enough for me. What I want to look into is the front wheel powered hub.

In a tandem with my big big butt up front and her small one in the back we loose traction on the back and have plenty of weight up front. Think about that a two wheel drive bike! Anyway. We passed on the suspension fork but got the biggest tires you could at the time. We get lots of looks with a tandem on the beach and two kids in a trailer.

We need to plan more outings in the white mountains next time we head up that way. Probably not biking yet.

Finding comfortable Handel bars and more than one grip position is what really makes longer rides more comfortable. The more upright you are the more weight in your backside. While the more bent over position seems uncomfortable I miss the drop bars on the new bike. I really want to find some big bull horn bars. That’s my compromise for trail bike.

 

[stoveliker]

Be careful with the helmet. Old helmets are often structurally poor, and their safety insufficient. A friend of mine died falling off his mountain bike with a poor (old) helmet. It's plastic after all. Please buy a new one.

I dislike front wheel suspension; lots of energy lost in warming up that spring with its compressive cycles.

(I'm no mountain bike expert, though I've done about a 1000 miles in the woods on one. I am more of a road biker, likely around 50 000 miles life time, part of that high speed, 45 km /hr. This is possibly underlying my front suspension remark, though the 1000 miles woods biking was mostly without suspension because I switched back.)

 

[stoveliker]

My point being that plastic deteriorates. (And helmet technology has improved too.)

 

[Stelcom66]

I picked up an E- mountain bike last year ...

Its definitely a new hobby to add to my hiking for now and more so when I eventually fully retire.

This interests me. I recently got into hiking and full retirement is hopefully less than a year and a half away. There are a good amount of trails nearby that allow bikes. One being called 'Rails to Trails' - a former railroad in the woods which is popular for walking and biking.

I believe somewhere it's posted that no motorized vehicles are allowed, but will need to re-check that, Also need to see if a bike with electric assist would be considered not allowed. I wouldn't think so.

 

[EbS-P]

This interests me. I recently got into hiking and full retirement is hopefully less than a year and a half away. There are a good amount of trails nearby that allow bikes. One being called 'Rails to Trails' - a former railroad in the woods which is popular for walking and biking.

I believe somewhere it's posted that no motorized vehicles are allowed, but will need to re-check that, Also need to see if a bike with electric assist would be considered not allowed. I wouldn't think so.

Our beach, which has had laws on the books banning all bikes from 9am-6pm, considered all ebikes vehicles and at least as written bans them completely. We never heard of anyone being ticked for riding them on the beach.

 

[EbS-P]

Be careful with the helmet. Old helmets are often structurally poor, and their safety insufficient. A friend of mine died falling off his mountain bike with a poor (old) helmet. It's plastic after all. Please buy a new one.

I dislike front wheel suspension; lots of energy lost in warming up that spring with its compressive cycles.

(I'm no mountain bike expert, though I've done about a 1000 miles in the woods on one. I am more of a road biker, likely around 50 000 miles life time, part of that high speed, 45 km /hr. This is possibly underlying my front suspension remark, though the 1000 miles woods biking was mostly without suspension because I switched back.)

Thats a lot of miles! I found that any trail riding at any decent speed the front shock was a great addition. I spent all my money one summer on an air over oil unit with adjustable valves. Much better than the springs or rubber. Wonder what happened to it.

They sell shock absorbing seatposts too. That might be really nice for your posterior if you ride in an upright position.

 

[Stelcom66]

Our beach, which has had laws on the books banning all bikes from 9am-6pm, considered all ebikes vehicles and at least as written bans them completely. We never heard of anyone being ticked for riding them on the beach.

I'm hoping a designated walking/biking trail would have somewhat flexible rules - but I don't know. As for enforcing, that may be difficult to be 'caught' , since I assume an E-bike would be relatively quiet.

 

[Stelcom66]

We walked some of the trail today. Didn't see any information posted, so looked online when I got home. Saw '

• All unauthorized motorized vehicles are excluded from all sections of the trail. Motorized wheelchairs are permitted.

So I'm assuming no E-bikes, but is an E-bike unauthorized I wonder? As part of the rules, or at least recommendations for bicyclists is to announce when they're about to pass someone. Glad to see those that did pass us said 'On your left..' as they passed by. When you're walking and talking they can seem to suddenly appear. I'd thank them for announcing their presence.

 

[stoveliker]

Thats a lot of miles! I found that any trail riding at any decent speed the front shock was a great addition. I spent all my money one summer on an air over oil unit with adjustable valves. Much better than the springs or rubber. Wonder what happened to it.

They sell shock absorbing seatposts too. That might be really nice for your posterior if you ride in an upright position.

True. But if you want to be faster or go farther than others (or your previous self), energy dissipated on something else than movement is an issue. My arms (posture) worked fine without.

Most miles were on the road (racing) though.

 

[peakbagger]

Acadia National Park in Maine has the very famous carriage road network that the Rockefellers had built prior to handing their land over to the federal government to make the park, they permit Class 1 bikes only. My thought is its case by case basis by the entity that manages the routes. The Cross NH trail would not get a lot of use as a bike trail as its way too rough skinny tired road bikes and most mountain bikers would find it far too boring.

 

[SpaceBus]

I'm on an airgun forum and several of the members use e-bikes for hunting trips. I have to say that I'd like to get one in the future. Some guys have hub mounted motors and others have mid mount. I used to have a really nice Italian ultra-light Liotto mountain bike with front suspension, but that was many years ago and I don't remember what happened to it. My "ideal" e-bike would have front and mid suspension and fat tires. This would let me ride around on the firmer parts of the tide flats at low tide and get around the gnarly trails in our area.

 

[peakbagger]

There are some real nice full suspension ebikes out there but price goes way up. Definitely is pay to play when it comes to high end bikes. I think the Bosch Mid drive and the 500 watt battery is more than the cost of the rst of the bike.

 

[EbS-P]

True. But if you want to be faster or go farther than others (or your previous self), energy dissipated on something else than movement is an issue. My arms (posture) worked fine without.

Most miles were on the road (racing) though.

My favorite cycling efficiency/weight savings was a fellow grad student who spent I think 350$ for the the light weight fasteners (titanium?) for his road bike. He tipped the scales at 250+ pounds. Skipping beer 4 nights a week I bet I could have served at least 5# and dwarf the 5 oz. Every time I saw him smiling admiring his bike I’m pretty sure he most admiring the bolts.

 

[Corey]

Welcome to the club! I picked up a Luna X1 back in the beginning of 2020. The wife and I discussed and she thought she might use it in nice weather for her ~10 mile round trip to work. Well, safe to say THAT never happens so it's pretty much free to ride any time I want. I try to get in 50-60 miles a week of non-ebike workout riding, but then the ebike is nice for a cool-down ride or an evening trip for swimming at the lake, quick errands around town, etc.

It started out with a 48V battery, but I can hardly leave anything alone, so that got boosted to 52V pretty quick and 2kw at the motor. Pretty nice power to cover a wide range of road and trail riding.

 

[Highbeam]

My wife and I are regular users of our local rails to trail system. We ride mountain bikes 10-30 miles each outing. Getting ready to go this morning in fact.

“No motorized vehicles” the signs say but almost half the bikes are ebikes. The signs were made and rules written before they were invented. It is obvious, not only the physical appearance of the bike but the speed that the rider is zipping along at while sipping a latte. It’s really just a motorcycle, I dislike them and wish they were banned from the trails. Sorry if that’s unpopular. 25 mph is double what most pedal bicyclists are going and we’re already fast compared to walkers.

The one benefit is that the ebikes have gotten more people on the trail out their homes that otherwise would be fat and lazy(er) while sipping their 1000 calorie coffee drinks.

We swapped seats on our bikes to prevent butt pain. As a “normal” BMI male I found numbness in certain areas troubling so found the seats with a channel down the center allow more blood flow to those areas. Padded shorts and always wear gloves to keep my hands from going numb.

These paved trails are awesome. I have slicker tires on my mountain bike at 90 psi so I can pedal along easily. No stupid motorcycle parts needed.

I like motorcycles. I’ve raced them for years but they are not terribly compatible with slower walkers and bikers.

 

[SpaceBus]

Sounds like you have issue with the people using the e-bikes, not the e-bikes themselves. Your exact sentiments have been echoed at every new transportation invention.

 

[Highbeam]

Sounds like you have issue with the people using the e-bikes, not the e-bikes themselves. Your exact sentiments have been echoed at every new transportation invention.

Ha! Of course it’s the people but Ebikes are not an actual invention. It’s just a motorcycle. Those are great in motorized vehicle areas. There are some pretty great hiking trails that only allow foot traffic. Would you propose I ride my motorcycle on those trails too? Do you not understand why bicycles or motorcycles are not allowed on sidewalks?

 

[ABMax24]

Canada has pretty strict laws on E- Bikes, electric assist over 20mph or a motor larger than 500 watts requires the bike to be registered and insured as a moped, or alternatively as an offroad dirt bike.

That being said there is almost zero enforcement, and very few actually know the rules.

 

[SpaceBus]

Ha! Of course it’s the people but Ebikes are not an actual invention. It’s just a motorcycle. Those are great in motorized vehicle areas. There are some pretty great hiking trails that only allow foot traffic. Would you propose I ride my motorcycle on those trails too? Do you not understand why bicycles or motorcycles are not allowed on sidewalks?

Hiking and biking trails don't allow motorcycles, so those people riding e-bikes at full speed are breaking the rules. I don't think I or anyone else suggested we drive motorized vehicles in pedestrian areas.

 

[Highbeam]

Hiking and biking trails don't allow motorcycles, so those people riding e-bikes at full speed are breaking the rules. I don't think I or anyone else suggested we drive motorized vehicles in pedestrian areas.

To me, an ebike uses an electric motor so it is a motorized vehicle. So ebike = motorcycle. Keep them off of my hiking and biking trails.

 

[peakbagger]

I have about 1400 miles of hiking trails in my area, the town with my wood lot reported has the largest mileage of hiking trails on the East Coast and only a few are approved as multiuse. Unless its a multiuse trail mountain bikes be they pedal or e assist, are not allowed on hiking trails. I am not aware of any line drawn between E assist bikes and regular bikes on the fee multiuse trails. IMO, they both have very similar impact to the ground and require the same trail hardening, less required of hiking trails (although high use hiking trail also need to be hardened). With the thin top soils in my area, mountain bike trails tend to have higher impact on the ground than hikers. A bike has a smaller contact area with the ground than a footprint and thus a higher ground pressure and more compaction and then destruction of the thin soil layer. Once the soil is exposed, the trail becomes a rut and the rut will widen out as the use increases. The damage is not apparent immediately but freeze thaw, winter snow and spring run off can turn a path into wet ditch over the course of a winter. Our town has a relatively new mountain bike network and many of the trails are old grown in logging road beds or the club is digging out topsoil and replacing with mineral soils.

On the national forest lands there are generally separate snowmachine trails but mountain bikes in general have been a square peg in round hole. The local White Mountain National Forest, didnt think they had a big issue with bootleg bike trails until they started using Strava to see where usage was occurring and found large networks of trails that had been illegally built. They have adopted the approach of working with groups to legitimize some biking while closing down paths in vulnerable areas. They currently have no division between Ebikes and mountain bikes. There have been a lot of issues in VT on the Appalachian Trail in the Green Mountain National Forest where mountain bike trails have been built and connected to the AT, in most cases unless its multiuse trail, mountain bikes are prohibited on the AT or AT lands. I maintain boundary on a section of the AT in Maine and access to one end of my section requires a 4 mile walk in via a logging road, that can eat up a lot of time so having an ebike to ride in via an existing forest road allows me a lot more time on the boundary. This land is owned by the National Park Service and should I see any new path be it mountain bike, hiking or forestry, I take coordinates and photos and report it to the NPS to deal with it.

 

[Highbeam]

When you say, “they have no division between ebikes and mountain bikes” is it just that you are ignoring where they prohibit motorized vehicles? Because an ebike is a motorized vehicle. Or maybe just lack of enforcement?

Motorcycles are fun for sure. So is biking and so is hiking.

 

[peakbagger]

No, as far as I am aware anywhere a pedal bike can go, an ebike is permitted. I think it must be a federal decision as the NPS and the USFS and the National Wildlife Refuges both seem to be consistent. The Acadia NP carriage roads get lots of bikes with big rental fleet and that was the only place I have heard of distinction between E assist (class 1) and other classes (2 and 3) with E assist allowed while others prohibited. In National Forest Wilderness areas (I have several nearby), both pedal bikes and e bikes are banned despite some very nice old logging railroad beds in the valleys and dugways wrapping up the sides of mountains.

 

[zrock]

Canada has pretty strict laws on E- Bikes, electric assist over 20mph or a motor larger than 500 watts requires the bike to be registered and insured as a moped, or alternatively as an offroad dirt bike.

That being said there is almost zero enforcement, and very few actually know the rules.

ya zero enforcement is right..

As far as ebikes go they are a motorized veh so follow the rules of the road and keep them off the bike trails and sidewalks.. I like the concept of ebikes great for a person like me that loved to bike until my knees told me no more, for me just to ride a block is quite panful.. Sucks to get old..LOL

Next statement is just mu opinion for both bike and ebikes. Bikes are meant to be ridden not loaded up in the back of your veh to drive a couple of miles and then ride on your favorite trail. Tree huggers say they are saving the environment by ridding their bikes but they are the worst culprit of loading their bike up in the veh and driving across town.. Same wit the people that ride the mountain trails load up th ebike to ride across town to hit their trail.. I used to bike everywhere to get to a trail i wanted to ride, did not mater if it was 4 hours or 10 min..