Econoburn Installation?

[haddtoo]

Has anyone in this area bought an Econoburn and had it installed yet? I'm looking for someone experienced to install - have one on order that should be coming in mid-October. Also, if you're in CT did you really not pay sales tax because of the Energy Star designation?

 

[bentrn]

Yeah, I bought one in September and I'm almost ready to fire it up. Have the last 2 connections to make and then inspection and it's ready to go. I have the model 100 and it's connected to my existing oil fired boiler. It has been a challenge getting the plumbing correct and locating the normally open solenoid valve for the dump zone, but I am hopeful everything will work as planned. They are right when they say the guys in technical support are helpful, they really are. I have talked to Dale and Mark along with Gary the dealer. If you need to know where to get your plumbing supplies, I'd go to F.W. Webb in Waterbury. They are very helpful and they have everything you should need to hook it up. I had to install a separate chimney so I would recommend Simpson Duravent. I used 24 gauge black stove pipe for the connection to the chimney pipe. I'll let you know how it goes when we're done.

 

[Eric Johnson]

Welcome to the Boiler Room--both of you guys. Be sure to let us know how they work.

 

[wantstoburnwood]

In my manual the normally open valve was changed to normally closed 115 volt dump zone valve with a pen. When my technician tried to hook up the dump zone he found that he needed a normally closed valve. The manual that was emailed to me was different from the 1 that came with the boiler. I am not sure which manual I should start my fire with this week. Check to see whether the wire leading to your dump zone is energized when you turn your power on . If it isn't it is the same as mine it is only energized when the boiler over heats. let me know how the first firing goes.

 

[bentrn]

The solenoid valve for the dump zone I used I got from mcmaster-carr part# 9766K53 3/4" NPT female. The valve closes with power, we tested it with no piping connections, and is normally open without power, so when you have a power loss gravity will feed water through the dump zone and return to boiler. I used baseboard units without the hardware and hung them above the boiler with 12" x 3/4" hangers all toll I used 20' baseboard and another 10' of 3/4" copper pipe. I put a check valve and and a vent near the boiler return so water would only flow back to the boiler and not up through the dump zone when you are in warm up cycle. I believe the book was overwritten in error. Gary the dealer here in Ct uses the same on his unit and has been operating it for over a year without any problems. He used the smaller 1/2" valve which was about $10 less. The cost for the 3/4" was $210.63.

 

[wantstoburnwood]

When the boiler over heats it energizes the normally closed 115 volt valve and dumps heat into your over heat loop. The valve is wired to the red wire in the control box at the back of the boiler. I also have a 24 volt valve in the same loop hooked up to my main boiler supply power which will dump in a no power situation.

 

[bentrn]

The way is was explained to me is this. The normally OPEN solenoid valve will be closed when power is applied to it. When a power loss occurs, the valve is open and will allow water to flow by gravity up through your dump zone. It is connected to the overtemp wiring in the back of the boiler as indicated by the wiring diagram on the electrical cover. The aquastat suppied with the boiler is the device which you will set the high limit temperature 220 to 225 degrees will cut power to the normally OPEN solenoid valve and allow overtemp water to flow through the same dump zone without the need for any other valve or control. The two circulating pumps one supplied with the boiler Taco 007 is for your boiler warmup loop, and goes off at 150 degrees, the other one you have to purchase another Taco 007 is set to go on at 150 degrees and both are controlled by the boiler front control panel and the internal aquastats. Even the dealer says the book is wrong that tells you to use a normally CLOSED solenoid valve. I have the final connections to the oil boiler to do today. Just for a little added flow control I installed a one way check valve in the dump zone return, sweat copper 3/4" valve, and a 1" female NPT after the warm up pump, and one other of the same up at the house supply both so that water would not come into the warm up loop and water would not come from the house feed to the normal heating loop. It's a learning curve, that's for sure, it had my heating man and me scratching our heads a few times, and I can't tell you how many times I had to dissemble the black pipe and redo it to fit in something else. I can just tell you the rule of thumb we learned the hard way, OUTPUT of the wood boiler to INPUT of the oil boiler AFTER zone valves and circulating pump on the oil boiler this will keep the burner from running also you may have to set the burner temp lower by 5 or 7 degrees this way when you turn a thermostat in the house for heat the zone valve will open and only the oil boiler cicculating pump will come on to send water to that zone, OUTPUT of the oil boiler to INPUT of the wood boiler, and then go from there.
Best wishes

 

[Woodhandler]

I am considering the econoburn boiler also and would be gratefull for information on how it is working out.
I just found this form and very excited to read other comments

 

[Nofossil]

I am considering the econoburn boiler also and would be gratefull for information on how it is working out.
I just found this form and very excited to read other comments

Welcome to the forum and to the boiler room. There are several Econoburn users at this point, and I think they're all somewhere between happy and ecstatic. Searching on 'econoburn' should yield several threads. Do keep in mind that people tend to use this forum as a resource when they have problems or questions, so you'll tend to see a lot of problem related posts. Don't let that discourage you.

 

[Woodhandler]

Thanks for makeing me feel welcome.

For 30 years we had a Hs Tarm 35 with the demestic tank.Going to a gasification furnace will be diferent experence.The Econoburn looks like one that could not only last but could be repaired if the refactory cenent needed replaced.
The few things that concerned me was heating demestic water, and how to do the storrage tank.Need some do it yourself ideas hear.
The other thing is the price.

 

[Piker]

Thanks for makeing me feel welcome.

For 30 years we had a Hs Tarm 35 with the demestic tank.Going to a gasification furnace will be diferent experence.The Econoburn looks like one that could not only last but could be repaired if the refactory cenent needed replaced.
The few things that concerned me was heating demestic water, and how to do the storrage tank.Need some do it yourself ideas hear.
The other thing is the price.

The refractories in the Econoburn are a pretty simple design... and in general, things that are simple tend to have less of the inherent reliability problems of complex or over-engineered products. The small ceramic brick cemented in the base of the firebox is easily replaceable, as is the refractory in the cumbustion chamber.

Heating your domestic water will not be a problem. The Econoburn does not have a DHW coil inside... so you will need to plumb your DHW via a heat exchanger of some sort outside the boiler either as part of your primary loop or as a zone. There are several threads on DHW here at the forum... as well as quite a few knowledgeable folks more than willing to guide you.

You will find that the Econoburn is going to cost significantly more than just about any traditional outdoor or indoor wood boiler that doesn't use some form of gasification or reburn of the wood gasses. You will pay up-front for that 90%+ efficiency in order to save much more time and money in the long run.

If you have any specific questions about the Econoburn boilers, feel free to ask. As a dealer with several units in the field, I may have some insight that would be helpful.

Cheers

 

[kgryder]

I installed and have been running my Econoburn EBW 100 since the first of Dec. Everything has worked great. It is a heavy well built machine.
I hired my plumbing done and that wasn't cheap, keep that in mind when you consider purchasing a boiler.
I have been heating all of our DHW and most of our home heat. The boiler easily heats our 3400 sq ft house but without storage I run out of fire at about 5:00 am so we burn some oil till I get the fire going again.

The storage tanks are laying in the yard and I hope to get those in place in the next few weeks.
The only issue I've had was on the 1st or 2nd week the flue draft handle wouldn't operate. I had to take the side panel off to find that they used a simple shaft collar on a bronze bushing to guide the linkage. The collar screw was loose and slide off. Not a big deal but it took a few minutes to take the side off.

I can tell I am going to run low on dry wood. I started the winter with about 4 cords of wood. Only about half was really dry. The other half was from a big oak that was struck by lightening last spring. I was hoping that it would be dry enough to use by now, but it's still at about 30% moisture.

 

[Woodhandler]

We have 24 face cord of wood left as my Hs Tarm started to leak in November.Now heating with a old wood force air furnace till we can get another boiler.
The dry wood is what everyone says about the Econoburn. Going to look at one that is installed locally to see how they like it also.

 

[kgryder]

The oak at 30% moisture will burn and you get some gasification after it cooks for a while but it's not the nice jet you get with the good dry wood.

 

[Piker]

We have 24 face cord of wood left as my Hs Tarm started to leak in November.Now heating with a old wood force air furnace till we can get another boiler.
The dry wood is what everyone says about the Econoburn. Going to look at one that is installed locally to see how they like it also.

Dry wood is what everyone should be saying about ANY wood burning furnace. It really doesn't matter what you are burning wood in... if it's green it's not going to be as efficient as if the wood were dry.

The difference in the Econoburn from a regular boiler is that since the primary air that feeds the fire box doesn't blow directly on the fire itself (it blows across the top of the fire), it is more difficult to get green wood to burn. There is a good reason that the air enters the firebox of the Econoburn the way it does... but the the biggest question is why you would want to burn green wood in the first place. With a little planning, you can drastically reduce your wood usage with a gasifier and save time and money.

Wood quality is the biggest issue regarding the actual performance of the boiler itself. One of my customers had his property timbered 4 years ago. He thought that the wood would be seasoned by now... but that is not the case. Wood dries through the end grain mostly... and not through the bark... and especially not through the saturated punky stuff on the outside. Logs left in full length to rot in the forest can have as high if not higher moisture content than when green. That is not to say this wood is not worth burning once it dries out. It certainly is, but you still have to remember that the 1 or 2 inches of punky stuff on the outside has very little Btu content, and it takes up a considerable amount of space in the firebox that could be filled with good stuff, and will shorten your burn times for sure.

The second biggest issue regarding performance is installation. A quality installation is going to cost a decent amount... Hot water heating equipment is expensive... there's no getting around it. But compared to a crummy installation that doesn't work it's definitely worth it to get someone who knows what they are doing.

Cheers

 

[bentrn]

Woodhandler,
Unfortunely my econoburn is down for a bit until I can repair a problem with the chimney. The area I am in is subject to back drafts and I've purchased a vacu-stack cap for the stainless steel pipe. Other than that small problem the econoburn has been flawless. A little tweeking of the temperature on the indirect water heater and a couple of changes to the wood boiler temperature and it was perfect. If your near my area and would like to see it I live in Oxford, CT.

 

[pybyr]

I got my Econoburn running in the wee hours of the morning on January 16, when it was -30F outside. then, and in other parts of this recent cold snap, my house has been more comfortable than ever before. it (the Econoburn) is a sensibly designed and very well-built machine, and I am getting more heat per unit of wood than I have ever experienced before, even though I do not have storage yet, and even though my wood is not as dry as would be ideal. the other night, when it was 15 below zero outside and 75 degrees inside (which was hard to attain with any previous heating plant here), I went downstairs and kissed the thing... not something I usually do with inanimate objects

 

[Der Fuirmeister]

In my manual the normally open valve was changed to normally closed 115 volt dump zone valve with a pen. When my technician tried to hook up the dump zone he found that he needed a normally closed valve. The manual that was emailed to me was different from the 1 that came with the boiler. I am not sure which manual I should start my fire with this week. Check to see whether the wire leading to your dump zone is energized when you turn your power on . If it isn't it is the same as mine it is only energized when the boiler over heats. let me know how the first firing goes.

I don't have an Econoburn, but we wire many fail-safe devices for emergency generator systems. Work through the logic. Fail-safe when the power (or controller) fails.....power to close, spring to open on loss of power.

 

[Der Fuirmeister]

........... I went downstairs and kissed the thing... not something I usually do with inanimate objects

It's OK pybyr, we understand.

 

[Woodhandler]

Would like to know more about your chimney problem.
Located hear in northeastern Pa. but thanks for the offer to see your boiler .

 

[willworkforwood]

I was going to post a thread at some point, but what I have to say seems to fit ok in this one. I'll give a thumbnail of my story and try to keep it short. In March I watched oil take off, and started thinking about heating with wood again. Years ago I heated a 140 year old colonial exclusively with a big Ashley, so I know about the work, the mess, etc. So I started cutting wood on my property at top speed, but not knowing the how - my current house is unsuitable for a wood stove, so it had to be something else. Then I saw Gasifier - what's that? Then I found HEARTH.COM and when I wasn't splitting I was reading. So, could a gaser work ? Yes - we have a large unfinished basement, baseboard FHW, 40 gal SuperStor, and a workable existing chimney situation. Tarms were sold out, so I zeroed in on an EBW 100 piped in parallel with my OB to heat 2400 SF (American made was the tiebreaker with EKO). Now, could I install ? Hearth is my only exposure to Hydronics - could I learn it ? - yes, I'm not afraid of projects with long hours. Best guess at finishing - in time for heating next year. Good side - the wood will be fully seasoned. Bad side - we spend another year on oil while the wood gets covered with snow. Final question on me installing - how long could my wife live without hot water ? The answer is some small number of minutes, so I will not be doing the install. Now it's getting late in the Summer, the wood is up high cooking in the Sun, but nothing with the boiler. Enter Joe Waskiewicz, our local Econoburn dealer who comes out to give an estimate. He tells me first that a parallel install would cost a good deal more, due to having to move stuff around, including the oil line which will need permits and inspections. Then he says that he doesn't like the EBW 100 as much as the 150, due to a couple of things such as the fan design, and also feels that the 150 is not greatly oversized. Ok - the estimate will be for a 150 with series install. The numbers are 8K for the boiler and 4K for the install. Not a surprise - about what I was expecting - but I'm just like most of the other working stiffs on Hearth, 12K is not something I have in my wallet, so it would need to be a 401K loan with a 1 year payback - and lots of bread and soup during the year.
Ok - let's add it up. I'm still not sure about the boiler size. Nofossil would tell me the 150 is too big, but he will also say I can make it produce like a 100 with smaller fires. Nobody likes piping in series, but 12K is max - can't spend more for parallel. Hey, the 150 will have extra BTUs to make up for what's being wasted going up the OB pipe - well at least those 2 parts fit. What to do ? Bottom line is I just can't let that wood go unused and pay another 2.5 K+ for oil again. I pull the trigger. Joe and Vic's crew does a nice, one day install, which included moving the Superstor to the other side of the OB. Spirovent, R-C Draft Control, etc. I can't say enough about the fine, professional job they did, and would recommend them to anyone living in the Central Ma vicinity. They do not deliver boilers - that's a story for another time. The install was done just in time for the cold week before Thanksgiving, and I started giving thanks after the first fire.
Ok - my story was too long. For those of you still reading, I'm sorry about that.
A few specific things about my situation. All of the new pipe resulted in a roasting basement - then I insulated most of the new and existing pipe, and now the heat goes where it's supposed to. Also, I gradually turned down the high aquastat (not the one on the EBW front panel) from their initial 210 to a current setting of 192, which seems to work best in terms of idling and overall heat production. We load based on the outside temp - generally fires on the small side whenever possible. No storage, so the fire never goes completely out. The boiler is doing incredibly well with less-than-perfectly seasoned wood. After making it through last Fridays -10 with a cozy warm 73 inside, I'm totally happy with how this has worked out. Maybe it could have been done technically better with a series install, and maybe I could have saved a few bucks by doing the install myself taking an extra year, but the bottom line for me is that every time I go down to load, I get to see the oil gauge in the exact same place that it was on Nov 10. All of the success I've had with this boiler is a direct result of the information on Hearth.com, and I can't even begin to thank all of the people who contribute their time and incredible knowledge to this forum.

willworkforwood

EBW 150 No Storage
Maul + wheelbarrow = free fitness club

 

[sdrobertson]

Welcome aboard willworkforwood and that is a excellent first post. Sounds like you did your homework and have a excellent system for your setting. Its good to have happy individuals post their stories as it seems like all there are mostly posts with questions and problem solving and I don't want "guests" who are reading these posts to start thinking that its really difficult to run.

 

[Piker]

Willworkforwood,

That's a good story. Congratulations on your install. As an Econoburn dealer I tend to agree with your dealer that an EBW150 is well suited for most installations where an EBW100 would be sufficient. It provides a little overhead and a larger firebox for longer burn times... which is obviously a bonus especially if you're not running thermal storage.

You are also right about building smaller fires to increase efficiency with an oversized boiler. The demo I use here at Hillside is an EBW200 that heats around 3700 sq feet total. It's definitely oversized for the heat load especially without thermal storage... but it allowed me to attain almost 13 hours of burn time with seasoned hickory when it was -20 last friday night, and average burn times with a half a load of mixed ash and soft maple will consistently get us 10 to 12 hours with average temps in the 20's. I am for sure using a little more wood on those long burns than if I had the smaller unit, but it's a tradeoff I am more than happy to accomodate until I get the thermal storage up and running. I have found that during times when I am home to feed the boiler, it pays to add only 2 or 3 pieces of wood at a time. A smaller fire, with a smaller coal bed will proportionately force more heat to be produced by the gasification process than by the inefficient combustion of the firebox alone. (this applies only to boilers that do not have thermal storage... boilers with storage will obviously run flat and at full efficiency to heat the storage regardless of load size) As the fire spreads through the wood pile in the top chamber of an oversized boiler, the amount of heat transferred to the water jacket from that innefficient combustion increases proportionately to what your overall heat requirement is... which causes the boiler to gasify less... which reduces overall efficiency. In my opinion burning small fires almost entirely eliminates the loss of efficiency you would see from having an oversized boiler. It also keeps the gunk that can build up in the heat exchanger to a minimum.

At any rate, good luck with and congrats on your new setup.

Cheers

 

[Der Fuirmeister]

I was going to post a thread at some point, but what I have to say seems to fit ok in this one. I'll give a thumbnail of my story and try to keep it short. In March I watched oil take off, and started thinking about heating with wood again. Years ago I heated a 140 year old colonial exclusively with a big Ashley, so I know about the work, the mess, etc. So I started cutting wood on my property at top speed, but not knowing the how - my current house is unsuitable for a wood stove, so it had to be something else. Then I saw Gasifier - what's that? Then I found HEARTH.COM and when I wasn't splitting I was reading. So, could a gaser work ? Yes - we have a large unfinished basement, baseboard FHW, 40 gal SuperStor, and a workable existing chimney situation. Tarms were sold out, so I zeroed in on an EBW 100 piped in parallel with my OB to heat 2400 SF (American made was the tiebreaker with EKO). Now, could I install ? Hearth is my only exposure to Hydronics - could I learn it ? - yes, I'm not afraid of projects with long hours. Best guess at finishing - in time for heating next year. Good side - the wood will be fully seasoned. Bad side - we spend another year on oil while the wood gets covered with snow. Final question on me installing - how long could my wife live without hot water ? The answer is some small number of minutes, so I will not be doing the install. Now it's getting late in the Summer, the wood is up high cooking in the Sun, but nothing with the boiler. Enter Joe Waskiewicz, our local Econoburn dealer who comes out to give an estimate. He tells me first that a parallel install would cost a good deal more, due to having to move stuff around, including the oil line which will need permits and inspections. Then he says that he doesn't like the EBW 100 as much as the 150, due to a couple of things such as the fan design, and also feels that the 150 is not greatly oversized. Ok - the estimate will be for a 150 with series install. The numbers are 8K for the boiler and 4K for the install. Not a surprise - about what I was expecting - but I'm just like most of the other working stiffs on Hearth, 12K is not something I have in my wallet, so it would need to be a 401K loan with a 1 year payback - and lots of bread and soup during the year.
Ok - let's add it up. I'm still not sure about the boiler size. Nofossil would tell me the 150 is too big, but he will also say I can make it produce like a 100 with smaller fires. Nobody likes piping in series, but 12K is max - can't spend more for parallel. Hey, the 150 will have extra BTUs to make up for what's being wasted going up the OB pipe - well at least those 2 parts fit. What to do ? Bottom line is I just can't let that wood go unused and pay another 2.5 K+ for oil again. I pull the trigger. Joe and Vic's crew does a nice, one day install, which included moving the Superstor to the other side of the OB. Spirovent, R-C Draft Control, etc. I can't say enough about the fine, professional job they did, and would recommend them to anyone living in the Central Ma vicinity. They do not deliver boilers - that's a story for another time. The install was done just in time for the cold week before Thanksgiving, and I started giving thanks after the first fire.
Ok - my story was too long. For those of you still reading, I'm sorry about that.
A few specific things about my situation. All of the new pipe resulted in a roasting basement - then I insulated most of the new and existing pipe, and now the heat goes where it's supposed to. Also, I gradually turned down the high aquastat (not the one on the EBW front panel) from their initial 210 to a current setting of 192, which seems to work best in terms of idling and overall heat production. We load based on the outside temp - generally fires on the small side whenever possible. No storage, so the fire never goes completely out. The boiler is doing incredibly well with less-than-perfectly seasoned wood. After making it through last Fridays -10 with a cozy warm 73 inside, I'm totally happy with how this has worked out. Maybe it could have been done technically better with a series install, and maybe I could have saved a few bucks by doing the install myself taking an extra year, but the bottom line for me is that every time I go down to load, I get to see the oil gauge in the exact same place that it was on Nov 10. All of the success I've had with this boiler is a direct result of the information on Hearth.com, and I can't even begin to thank all of the people who contribute their time and incredible knowledge to this forum.

willworkforwood

EBW 150 No Storage
Maul + wheelbarrow = free fitness club

Thanks for sharing your experiences.......