EKO 60 install questions

[cityboy172]

So, I just cut a check for an EKO 60, and am starting to get rolling on the fab work to get it rolling. Going off the "Simplest pressurized storage" design, the below picture is what I'm thinking. I've searched The forum quite a bit, and just want to make sure that I get everything set up correctly.

I have 2,000 gallons of storage gathered, and would like to use it all, but will be setting it up in a way that it can be isolated to 1,000 if need be.

Do I need to set my boiler to storage loop up in 1 1/4 or 1 1/2? If 1 1/2, what do people use for return protection in that size? Not finding a Danfoss valve in that size.

Any other comments or suggestions are appreciated. Just in the planning stages now.

 

[hobbyheater]

Can't help you with your questions . But congratulations on taking the plunge!

 

[cityboy172]

Can't help you with your questions . But congratulations on taking the plunge!

Thanks. It's a little nerve racking right now. I'm sure everything will be just fine, but I just cut a large check to a guy I don't know, for a boiler I can't see. I'll be a lot more relaxed when I have it in my hands. Due to the boiler being in Maine, I'm taking a risk and having it shipped instead of making the 1,100+ mile trip. Shipping will cost me less then half of what the trip would cost me.

 

[Mike Fromme]

Congrats. I take it that it's a used boiler?

You need to do the math to figure the friction loss and then decide what pipe and pump combo you want to run. A 1.25" danfoss will be fine for either size pipe. You just need to account for the Cv rating when you do the math.

 

[cityboy172]

Congrats. I take it that it's a used boiler?

You need to do the math to figure the friction loss and then decide what pipe and pump combo you want to run. A 1.25" danfoss will be fine for either size pipe. You just need to account for the Cv rating when you do the math.

Yes, boiler is a used 2008, and the guy I bought it from has had it in his basement for 2 years, not hooked up, making me the third owner. Started working on getting it hooked up this winter and decided it was too big. Or that's how the story goes anyways.

Everything should be pretty close together. I'm thinking 40-50' max will cover the storage loop. not positive on fitting count yet.

 

[Mike Fromme]

A little back of the envelope math --

A rule of thumb for rough estimation is to take the piping length and multiply 1.5 times to account for fittings. So 50' each way times 1.5 equals 150'.

1.25" pipe has a head loss of a around 6' at 20gpm per 100' of piping.

150' of equivalent piping means your looking at about 9' at 20gpm.

A quick look at the pump curves and the grundfos 26-64 would do that but not much more.


If you meant 50' total piping then you might be in the neighbors of being able to use a 15-55 or alpha but you'd only be moving 16-18 gpm.

 

[cityboy172]

I'm going to be at 50' total line length. On the storage loop anyways. House loop is previously installed from having a central boiler.

 

[JP11]

Check out AHONA. I have 1.5 inch copper from boiler to storage. I have return water temp protection. It's not a danfoss brand.

JP

 

[Mike Fromme]

Check out AHONA. I have 1.5 inch copper from boiler to storage. I have return water temp protection. It's not a danfoss brand.

JP

Got a link?

I looked on their site and only saw an old product sheet for No Longer Available danfoss valves. ( the old style ones)

 

[JP11]

Just make a phone call. I'm sure they have a current solution. I'm not home or I'd read you the brand name off mine.

 

[cityboy172]

I'll give them a holler if I don't get it hashed out with my supply houses soon.

What I do find interesting is that in my flipping through the manual that I didn't see a GPM requirement for the boiler. Unless I missed it, which wouldn't surprise me one bit.

 

[JP11]

well it's all math.

you have X BTU output. you ideally want a delta T of around 20 to 30.

should give you a GPM.

I think my 60kw boiler runs about design of 22 GPM thru that 1.5 short run of pipe. I'm usually 17 to 22 degrees delta T I think. I've seen peaks higher when it's really roaring.

JP

 

[henfruit]

You want a fluid power energy brand. www.fpevalves.com

 

[Mike Fromme]

The danfoss valve should be available through any local supply house. I'd be hesitant to buy one that is only imported through a few small distributors. If something goes wrong it's nice to know you can always replace the moving parts without cutting into your piping.

http://na.heating.danfoss.com/PCMPDF/ESBE VTC Datasheet- VDKIJ102 01-14.pdf

 

[stee6043]

Congrats on your purchase!

I ran 1-1/4" black pipe for my main system lines. My heat exchanger (forced air) is plumbed with 1" Pex-AL-Pex from my manifold. If I were in your shoes I'd plumb with 1-1/2" pipe. It'll give you a little more wiggle room when the boiler is really cranking. A 1-1/4" Danfoss should work fine with a reducer.

Quick thought on your diagram - it can be quite tricky (as far as I know) to effectively run two tanks in parallel as opposed to in series. Close attention needs to be paid to balance flow through the tanks. I ran mine in series to avoid having to worry about flow. A couple of extra shutoffs and tees and you should easily be able to isolate each tank regardless of which path you take for the plumbing.

One tip - add a couple extra vents while you're doing the plumbing. Air in the system can be very frustrating and easily removed with some well placed vents or shutoffs.

 

[91LMS]

One tip - add a couple extra vents while you're doing the plumbing. Air in the system can be very frustrating and easily removed with some well placed vents or shutoffs. AMEN TO THAT!

my initial install was rushed (went online in January) and I struggle for quite some time to get air out the night I filled storage. not to mention without vents where you hook boiler supply into the heating system you are pushing all that air into your previously bled emitters if this is an add on. make sure you also put a valve so that you can control the amount of water that passes through your danfoss on the hot side. 3/4" or 1" copper might be easier to plumb that leg, along with smaller valves and fittings to save some money.

if you are not set up for generator back up on the house in event of a power outage, make your boiler is ready if you don't plan to do battery backup. I added a outlet and made a cord to plug male to male from my generator. piece of mind if the temp keeps climbing on boiler temp.

 

[cityboy172]

Well, it showed up today. You could say things are getting pretty serious now....

 

[hobbyheater]

Well, it showed up today. You could say things are getting pretty serious now....

Wheres the pictures?

 

[cityboy172]

Wheres the pictures?

Didn't get any, was in a hurry. Work and personal is wearing me really thin right now. I'll get some up once I start putting things together.

 

[jebatty]

What I do find interesting is that in my flipping through the manual that I didn't see a GPM requirement for the boiler.

The comment above that it is all about the math is correct. There is no GPM requirement that fits everyone. Just use the formula: btuh = gpm x deltaT x 500, or gpm = btuh / (deltaT x 500).

The Eko 60 is rated at 205,000 btuh, which probably means that is the peak output. To move 205,000 btuh, just plug in the the deltaT you expect in your system and calculate the gpm you need to be able to move the full output into the system. As deltaT changes, so does GPM; and as output changes as the fire burns down, so does GPM to move the ever reducing output.

 

[cityboy172]

Productive day.

 

[cityboy172]

Ok, so I have things moved around to permanent spots now, and the expansion tank is hung in the rafters. I have the pipe here, and the rest of the fittings and odds and ends coming, except for the things that I don't know I forgot yet. Ended up going with a 1-1/2 FPE mixing valve.

So, my next thing that I need help on is the flue pipe. What do I need to run? I'm going through a corrugated tin roof on a polebarn. Will be a straight shot up. I know zero about this. Looks like a lot of guys run single wall until ceiling height? Should I run 8" out, or downsize? What do people usually do for sealing the roof?

This is my first go at this, so forgive me if the questions are a little basic maybe. My search didn't turn up a little whole lot.

 

[cityboy172]

Also, my turbulators need to come out so the tubes can be cleaned. Should I put it back the way it was, modify the turbulators and just hang them in there, or hang 3/8 chain?

 

[JTWALL]

I removed all the mechanisms from my Eko and just leave them hanging. The OEM cleaning action does not work very well. Manual cleaning is not all that bad...takes about 8 minutes. I suggest you keep area above turbulator access cover/plates clear to ease any maintenance in the future. Good luck!
PS - If you check the fit between the turbulator fin and the heat exchanger tube, you will find a 3/8-inch gap (total). I am not sure how the builder thought this design would properly clean off built up residue. I have modified the turbulator to achieve a tighter fit and am waiting to see how it works. So far, all the changes have made a significant improvement! Again, good luck with you install and keep us updated! Regards.

 

[cityboy172]

Boilers pretty much cleaned up, an hopeing to have the majority of the piping done this weekend. The boiler was not as clean as I was led to believe. The turbulater tubes were packed, and I had several stuck turbulators.

How much of the creosote do I nerd to clean out of this upper box before it goes out the flue? Do I need to worry about cleaning it out of the wood box?

Ended up going with a Fluid power engineering mixing valve. That thing is huge.