EKO ''Fuel'' issues

[stonefox]

Hello Folks,
Recently having issues with my EKO 40 timing out reading "Fuel" with plenty of wood and a call for heat.I know this is going to need more clarification but I had to start somewere.I would be greatful for any feed back.
Also my controller (RK-2001UA) has two settings that are not shown in the operators manual.They come up between the fan power setting and the automatic fan speed control. The first sign looks like a small n the other looks like a large n and a small h. Any clues?
Sean

 

[Hunderliggur]

Display | Parameter | Min | Max | Step Factory default
N100 | fan power or max fan power when Nr 1 | 50 | 100 | 10% | 100
N | % of fan ramp down
Nh | degrees ramp down starts
Nr 1 | automatic fan speed control |- .0 | 10 | 1 | 1
Nn 5 | fan work time | - .5 | 60 | 1s | 5
Nu 6 | fan pause time | 1 | 99 | 1min | 6

b) Pressure fan work parameters
Fan power [N100] - this value defines power of the fan. When "Nr" parameter is set to "0-10" this is the maximum power of the fan which can be achieved during the automatic fan control.
Automatic fan speed control [Nr 1] – it’s on, when this parameter is set to
"0-10" and causes automatic fan speed reduction when the temperature of water in the boiler reaches the desired temperature. If this parameter is set to"-", the fan automatic smooth speed control is disabled and the fan can work with power set by "N" parameter. Setting parameter value in range from 0 to 10 means time in minutes of the smooth fan speed increase from 40% to a value of "N" for a smooth boiler start.
Fan work time [Nn 5] - time of turning the fan on for a while, to remove accumulated gases. Setting the parameter to "-" turns this function off.

That being said, what does it mean? I don't know. I THINK Nh is a high temp ramp down but I don't know for sure. I think your fuel issue is that the fire is not relighting when the boiler is coming back on from idle. Are you sure it had a hot bed of coals when it tried to relight? I wish my boiler would go to "Fuel" when in ran out - more often than not the fan is running and the fuel is gone. Still working on that one. The 6 hour twist power timer people have talked about my be in my future!

 

[taxidermist]

For stone fox try this increase your Nn fan work time to 60 sec this will purge air into the chamber while boiler is in idle

increase Nu fan pause time to 3 min this will purge your fire box every 3 min for 60 sec to keep your fire burning.

you could also increase your Fd and Fb settings a little bit

What happens with default settings if you dont have storage is your boiler goes into idle and lays there smoldering due to the lack of air and only adds air every 6 min for 5 sec.
here is a link to the control manual http://www.newhorizoncorp.com/PDF/RK-2001UA-ENG1.pdf


Hunder...... you need to look @ your fb setting and see if it is set to 0 mine was and the fan would run forever.


Hope this helps

Rob

 

[Medman]

I had this problem a lot the first year, due to a combination of factors:
-Too much secondary air causing wood near nozzle to burn too fast
-Splits too big, causing bridging and loss of coals over nozzle - fire would not reignite after idle
-Wood too wet, causing lack of gasification - the boiler could never reach set temp and would shut down after time interval.

Read the fine-tuning EKO sticky for some good advice, and check those settings. Also, it is a good idea to always press stop, then start again when reloading. This resets the timer for the interval until the fuel message comes up - in my case, 60 minutes.
I have found that with a set temp of 180*, when the display drops to 172* or lower the wood is all gone and it is time to reload.

 

[stee6043]

+1 on Medman's second comment. Bridging is something a lot of new gasser burners struggle with. The answer is smaller splits. My rule of thumb is no splits bigger than 4" in any dimension. I had plenty of instances of full loads and no fire my first year due to bridging. Smaller splits will make you very happy....and a splitting maul next to your wood pile can accomplish this on an as-needed basis!

 

[timberr]

Stonefox,

My first year I experienced the same problem when initially trying to heat my storage. Then I lowered the target temp to 150*. I can't remember the setting but there is a time setting that the controller is looking for to reach the target temp. If you exceed the time limit the controller assumes there isn't any fuel so you get the fuel error. As the storage warms I would increase the target temp until I finally get to 190* which is where I normally run. During my regular burn cycles this isn't an issue.

Good Luck

 

[stonefox]

Thanks for all the imput.It's the second full season with the 40 or as my wife calls it the "Beast",because it's very hungry and takes a lot of my thought process. I think I have it licked and then the weather changes and I'm at it again.I'm also beginning to think that I may be at the boilers max for my buildings heat load. 2400 sq. ft, 4-12x14 overhead doors (I have to work on the drafty overheads), sprayfoamed insulation, 9-300 ft 1/2 " loops tubing set a little deep ,6" slab. I will slay this beast.I just have to find its sweet spot.
Cheers Fellow Gassers
Sean

 

[Hunderliggur]

You didn't say in your initial post, but are you running the EKO 40 in a 2400SF shop wth 6" concrete/in slab radiant? If so, I would just set the temp to the max and dump the heat into the slab. Idling with a no-storage radiator system can make sense, but I don't think it is the best way to get the BTUs into your space - burn them and put them into the concrete.

 

[stonefox]

You didn't say in your initial post, but are you running the EKO 40 in a 2400SF shop wth 6" concrete/in slab radiant? If so, I would just set the temp to the max and dump the heat into the slab. Idling with a no-storage radiator system can make sense, but I don't think it is the best way to get the BTUs into your space - burn them and put them into the concrete.

Here lies part of the problem.First I cant get it to target temp(180) without the fan more than half open hence short burn times .Even then some times it still goes to fuel without hitting idle shut down.I'm trying what Timberr suggested of lowering target temp to 155 and bringing it up that way .I'm begining to think that it may be the controller,I just don't know.Tell me if I'm wrong ,if the floor is calling for heat I think the stove should come up to target temp and idle untill it drop below the restart temp and ping pong back and forth.Which it does every once in a while and then it will go to fuel with a 1/2 load of wood in it . When it was a little warmer it was cycling just fine .It met the thermostat set point and was good .When it dropped in temp outside.I've been losing with very little gains and not meeting the 68 desired room temp.My primaries are 9-10 mm the secondaries are 3.5 .Like I said earlier fan @ 1.25-1.5 '' just to be able to get it up to target temp.This produces less than optimum flame (more orange with a roar).I know the thread has suggested that a lower fan openning and a bluer flame is better but I cant get the temp up to target then.
I hope I'm not rambling I'm just trying to put all the info that I can think of.I apologize I didn't get it all in the first post.
Thanks again fellas

PS how do you rearrange the tread order from last post to first ?

 

[taxidermist]

Stone,

Are you saying you only have the fan shutter on the front fan @ 1.25" to 1.50" open? If so that needs to be ! 100% open as the chart in the manual says. Maybe tis is your problem.

 

[stonefox]

Stone,

Are you saying you only have the fan shutter on the front fan @ 1.25" to 1.50" open? If so that needs to be ! 100% open as the chart in the manual says. Maybe tis is your problem.

Taxi- I hear what you are saying,but I was told by Zenon it should be more closed than open. Also referencing to the EKO fine tuning sticky,it seemed that most members were seeing a full fan opening blowing the bottom out of the coals hence bridging.Also a full fan gives me a very orange flame which I thought I wanted a bluish flame.And thirdly full fan knocks my burn time in half. I'm confused am I hearing something wrong.

 

[mr.fixit]

Stone,

Are you saying you only have the fan shutter on the front fan @ 1.25" to 1.50" open? If so that needs to be ! 100% open as the chart in the manual says. Maybe tis is your problem.

Taxi- I hear what you are saying,but I was told by Zenon it should be more closed than open. Also referencing to the EKO fine tuning sticky,it seemed that most members were seeing a full fan opening blowing the bottom out of the coals hence bridging.Also a full fan gives me a very orange flame which I thought I wanted a bluish flame.And thirdly full fan knocks my burn time in half. I'm confused am I hearing something wrong.

Well heres my take on this.First off I leave my fan shutter open all the way,then I adjust the speed--100% when first starting the fire then after a bit and good gasification going I turn the speed down to 70%,sometimes 60% if it is really dry wood.Seems to work good for me,very seldom do I get the "fuel" light.
Something else --are some of those older posts in the sticky using the the old style controller where you couldnt adjust the fan speed?I cant remember ,I havent read them in a while but that would make a difference.
Another thing I noticed when first starting out heating the slab in my shop was that I had the mixing valve set to hot.The floor pump wouldnt run long and when it did the return tenp was so low the boiler struggled.
What about your wood,is it dry?
What kind of burn times do you get with a full load?

 

[heaterman]

That is a lot of load to pick up for a 40.

 

[stonefox]

Stone,

Are you saying you only have the fan shutter on the front fan @ 1.25" to 1.50" open? If so that needs to be ! 100% open as the chart in the manual says. Maybe tis is your problem.

Taxi- I hear what you are saying,but I was told by Zenon it should be more closed than open. Also referencing to the EKO fine tuning sticky,it seemed that most members were seeing a full fan opening blowing the bottom out of the coals hence bridging.Also a full fan gives me a very orange flame which I thought I wanted a bluish flame.And thirdly full fan knocks my burn time in half. I'm confused am I hearing something wrong.

Well heres my take on this.First off I leave my fan shutter open all the way,then I adjust the speed--100% when first starting the fire then after a bit and good gasification going I turn the speed down to 70%,sometimes 60% if it is really dry wood.Seems to work good for me,very seldom do I get the "fuel" light.
Something else --are some of those older posts in the sticky using the the old style controller where you couldnt adjust the fan speed?I cant remember ,I havent read them in a while but that would make a difference.
Another thing I noticed when first starting out heating the slab in my shop was that I had the mixing valve set to hot.The floor pump wouldnt run long and when it did the return tenp was so low the boiler struggled.
What about your wood,is it dry?
What kind of burn times do you get with a full load?

Fixit,
Wood is very dry ,maybe too dry .Burntimes were 7-9 hrs to completely out.I opened the fan all the way this afternoon and already seeing temp gain.Don't know what burntimes will be overnight.

 

[mr.fixit]

That is a lot of load to pick up for a 40.

Heaterman-are you refering to me or Stonefox?

 

[taxidermist]

Stone,

Not sure what Zennon is telling you? the manual even says 100% for a eko 40. Stick with us as we have been there done that You have to think different on our boilers...we are not really looking for"burn times" we are looking for a very hot fire and good transfer to storage. I think you have storage right? I run my eko 60 pretty much like a 40 as I have 1 fan unhooked. I run the fan shutter @ 100% speed @ 80 to 100% primaries @ 1" and secondaries @ 4 turns. This is my 3rd year and I still tinker with it but for the most part leave it alone.

PS Just re read the post dosent say if you have storage? do you? If not then between opening the fan shutter and adjusting the purge times i told ya about you should start seeing heat and full burns.


Rob

 

[stonefox]

Stone,

Not sure what Zennon is telling you? the manual even says 100% for a eko 40. Stick with us as we have been there done that You have to think different on our boilers...we are not really looking for"burn times" we are looking for a very hot fire and good transfer to storage. I think you have storage right? I run my eko 60 pretty much like a 40 as I have 1 fan unhooked. I run the fan shutter @ 100% speed @ 80 to 100% primaries @ 1" and secondaries @ 4 turns. This is my 3rd year and I still tinker with it but for the most part leave it alone.

PS Just re read the post dosent say if you have storage? do you? If not then between opening the fan shutter and adjusting the purge times i told ya about you should start seeing heat and full burns.


Rob

Rob- Thanks for your imput.I have no storage,but at this point I can barely get the shop to the set temp of 68 anyway .Back to my question should I have gotten the EKO 60?The original heat calcs. for the building done by a local HAVC company told me that I could heat it with a EKO25. I oppted for the 40 over their suggestion. They also figured on 12 -300ft loop @ 8'' on center and I was only able to phyiscally get 9 loops even after switching to 6'' on center. My mistake may have been setting the tudes too deep in the 6'' slad.
Sean

Can anybody tell me how to change the order of the post viewing?

 

[taxidermist]

Sean,

I think you will be fine when you get "the beast" running right and things heated up.Are the temps coming up still since you started giving it some air?

Rob

 

[mr.fixit]

Stone
Do you have a danfoss mixing valve on your boiler inlet or something else to maintain boiler temp?
Maybe a posting a plumbing diagram would help. Just another thought --If you idled alot last season (and this season)is it possible your HX tubes are creasoted up?
Something else--is the slab well insulated?