Eko vs Varm

[jasonh]

I know its a little early for a versus topic, but I just read through the entire sticky for eko tuning. Reading through it, I found a lot of good information on how people took an enormous amount of time to get their eko to run at peak performance. One question though, do you have to adjust the settings each time you fire the boiler or is it on a as needed basis? Can an eko boiler be a "load and go" or do you need to stand and watch it for awhile?

Now searching on here for a varm, I've read a couple threads that once set up you could just load it and go. It seems a little more time efficient than an eko. Am I correct?

From other research it seems the 2 brands are pretty similar with a few more bells and whistles going to the varm. Between the varm 37 and eko 40 they are roughly the same size with the varm being a little more money. My dilemma is do I spend a little more money for a "load it and go" varm or save some money, tweak the eko to run good and be happy.

Storage and piping will be the same for either so not really concerned with that. And I'm not sure if I'm asking the right questions, hence why I'm asking here to the happy users who are making them work at peak performance.

Time for me is an issue having 2 little boys under the age of 3 and being away for 12 hours a day 4 days a week at my job. To me both boilers are work horses and are tried and true, just would like some more info from actual users of either.

Thanks

 

[Buzz Saw]

I know its a little early for a versus topic, but I just read through the entire sticky for eko tuning. Reading through it, I found a lot of good information on how people took an enormous amount of time to get their eko to run at peak performance. One question though, do you have to adjust the settings each time you fire the boiler or is it on a as needed basis? Can an eko boiler be a "load and go" or do you need to stand and watch it for awhile?

Now searching on here for a varm, I've read a couple threads that once set up you could just load it and go. It seems a little more time efficient than an eko. Am I correct?

From other research it seems the 2 brands are pretty similar with a few more bells and whistles going to the varm. Between the varm 37 and eko 40 they are roughly the same size with the varm being a little more money. My dilemma is do I spend a little more money for a "load it and go" varm or save some money, tweak the eko to run good and be happy.

Storage and piping will be the same for either so not really concerned with that. And I'm not sure if I'm asking the right questions, hence why I'm asking here to the happy users who are making them work at peak performance.

Time for me is an issue having 2 little boys under the age of 3 and being away for 12 hours a day 4 days a week at my job. To me both boilers are work horses and are tried and true, just would like some more info from actual users of either.

Thanks

I'm interested to know the same info. I too am in a similar with work hours and two boys under 3 and under.

 

[woodsmaster]

I've never run either, but from what I've learned on there the eko is a a hard dirty job to clean the tubes where the varm can be cleaned in around a minute. That is the biggest advantage I see. Also a huge weight difference, varm being lighter. I think this is good in that it will heat up faster but makes me wonder if they skimped on the steel ?

 

[jasonh]

Or do they just have the right steel in the right places thus using lighter steel in other places? I don't really know, if never designed one. Like I said above, what I've read on this site, both parties are happy with their boilers and have warm houses. I guess the issue that concerns me the most is do you have to sit there for 30 minutes while the eko gets going? But maybe the varm is the same. I dont know personally. I also remember a few people saying that the eko is tough to get going from a cold boiler state. I thought that was the point of batch burning?

It is impressive to see the amount of storage some people have and heating it with either boiler. I remember reading nofossil heating 800+ gallons with a 25 and burning once a day. That's a sweet setup. I was thinking either boiler and 2 500 gal tanks for me. Of course that's quite a few steps down in the design.

 

[jebatty]

I have no personal experience with either, but I do with a Tarm Solo 40, in many ways like the Eko in that it has simple controls. The Tarm manual gives advice on setting the primary/secondary air manual air control, and then says "or you can set it and forget it," which is what I did after some early experimenting with different settings. On the technical side, adjusting the air control can help to make burns more efficient depending on the moisture content of the wood. All of my wood is dried at least two full summers, so my wood likely has pretty consistent moisture content. In all events, set it and forget it is my mantra.

As to starting, about 5 minutes from the match to gasification burn. Kindling, partial wood load of small splits, light, burn takes off quickly, gasification starts, wait a couple of minutes, complete loading, and walk away.

As to cleaning, this can be important because they do need to be cleaned. I brush mine every 2-4 weeks, when I notice stack temp has risen about 100F from temp with newly brushed, cleaned tubes. To clean the Tarm fire tubes you have to remove part of the top cabinet of the boiler and then a plate which covers the fire tubes. Both very easy and quick things to do. Then brush the tubes. Also easy and quick, although a low ceiling would complicate this some. Then put the steel plate and the cabinet piece back on.

I wouldn't get too far down the line on one brand vs another brand of similar build boilers. The big differences come with lamda controls. And that's where a difference can matter a lot. This is where my personal experience with a Froling would make the Froling my boiler of choice if I ever have to replace my Tarm. The Tarm saw its first burn in 2006 and shows little sign of wear as the 2015-16 burn season soon will be starting. Hard to believe this will be 10 years with clean, smoke free hot water heat.

 

[jasonh]

Jebatty, good stuff in your post. I only stated those 2 boilers based on the similarity in price, which is in my price range. If I had the funds I would just get a garn. Of course there is the attack and biomass which are in the 5k range as well. And maybe a few others I'm forgetting.

 

[infinitymike]

Hey, If I can throw wrench in to your thoughts, have you considered a Wood Gun?
They are the bare bones controls, which may lead to a less efficient burn, but they really are a "set it and forget it" machine.
5 minute start up from a empty firebox to gasification, 5 minutes to clean out the gasification chamber and ash pan once a week, and even with no storage (which I would recommend and like to get) it can take a full load of wood and last 8-12 hours depending on your heat load.
A bit more expensive, (why I'm not sure) but it may be worth the lack of effort needed to run it.
I will say that I had my fair share of "issues" in the first year or two, but I chalk it up to my lack of user knowledge.
I run it year round for winter heat and summer DHW and have gotten a system that is extremely quick and easy.
My wife and teenage kids have run it while I've been away with just as much ease.

They also like big, somewhat moist spits, which will save you time c/s/s

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck,

 

[maple1]

Woodsmaster hit on what I was going to hit on.

Don't overlook ease of use beyond getting the fire going - you will have to keep it clean for as long as you will own it, and nothing beats a Varm for that. Just open a door, slide turbs out, brush tubes, slide turbs back in, close door. 5 minutes tops. I can even do mine while there is a fire going, if I wanted to. Not good for brush life, but just goes to show how easy it is.

I don't have any first hand experience with an Eko, but lots of happy users out there for those too. Hopefully you will get more Varm 37 feedback - but I think both are more or less set & forget once you get dialed in for your chimney & wood conditions, and can't see there being much difference in fire starting. One key difference is in their draft setups though - Varm is induced draft (air is sucked through firebox), while Eko is forced draft (air is blown through firebox). I think - someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong on the Eko. That may be prove to be a benefit to you if this will be installed in the house - induced usually means less chance of smoke spillage.

I really like my Varm, and it couldn't be much simpler - natural draft with no controls or fan. Only a stat to start the pump. And shut it off when the fire goes out. [One thing to check out is how Eko handles end of burn shut-down. Some units will keep running the fan until it is manually shut off, not sure if that applies to the Eko]. You do need a pretty tall chimney for the 40 though. Aside from that the construction is mostly the same as the 37, and I have seen no issues after 3 seasons - aside from one cracked refractory that cracked in the middle of season 1 that I have done nothing about and don't plan to for a while yet. No signs of refractory wear in the nozzle area yet - and when that day does come, they are very easy to service & replace. I got a spare set when I bought my boiler and don't anticipate having to start to think about changing them for at least another 3 years. They are very well engineered units.

 

[GregMajecki]

I have biomass 40 wood/oil unit. My advice would be to get oil boiler and add wood boiler to the system. Also I would get the best wood boiler that you can afford with electronics control for air. I spent a lot of time adjusting and re-adjusting air settings
If it come to cleaning I clean mine 2 times per winter its a wood boiler and there is always ash, smoke and dirt
With oil prices low I think wood boiler hype is gone
just my five cents

 

[Buzz Saw]

Not to get off topic of the EKO vs Tarm OP, but how does the Econoburn compare to the Tarm/EKO?

I ask because I have a Econoburn dealer locally and local dealer support maybe an important factor to consider.

 

[jasonh]

Greg that's my thing. I don't want to have to adjust and readjust the settings every load or whatever. A lambda boiler would be nice but I don't think it's in my budget. Oil is low now, but what's it's going to be in 6 months? No one knows.

Maple, I'm glad you chimed in. We've talked a few times before about your boiler. You make some good points. The varm is "easier" to clean I guess from what I've been reading as opposed to the eko.

I was hoping more eko boilers could offer their experiences.

 

[flyingcow]

Jebatty, good stuff in your post. I only stated those 2 boilers based on the similarity in price, which is in my price range. If I had the funds I would just get a garn. Of course there is the attack and biomass which are in the 5k range as well. And maybe a few others I'm forgetting.

You might find out the Garn will be no more money than a gasser w/storage+installation time. And I don't think you'll find an easier unit to run.

 

[jasonh]

Not a problem Buzz. I was thinking of a tarm but can't find any prices for their boilers.

 

[Buzz Saw]

Shot, I ment Varm. I'm scrabble right now as we speak. Just got off the phone with the builder of my pole barn. Lots to do and little time to do it.

 

[jasonh]

Varm tarm.....I knew what ya meant. The 100,000 btu tarm is 6 or 7k. I called them this afternoon. The solo Innova was 8k I think.

 

[Tennman]

Definitely not "too early" for a "versus" discussion if you intend and install for the '15-'16 season. This is a BIG life decision. Lots of guys in your neck of the woods who would be glad to have you come see their system. I highly recommend you do that (I should have). A several hour drive is nothing compared to the time you're going to spend feeding and caring for any wood boiler over it's operational life.

I want to be respectful of the many, very happy EKO owners, but I don't understand why that design has been stagnant for a such a long time. Our company develops products and if our product line was stagnant for over 20 years our competition would bury us. And the answer is not that it's a product that can't be improved. The BioMass is a much newer design and has seen product upgrades. I think today you can buy a Lambda Attack in the 5-6K price range which if I was going to visit Zenon today at New Horizons I might leave with an Attack instead of a BioMass.

As far as I can tell the "value brands" are still the EKO, BioMass, and Attack (but expect this forum to be your customer support lifeline). We purchased a affordable boiler, but without the generous help from guys on this forum, I might have thrown in the towel like many who try to save money on the boiler. I.e., far more inquiries over the years asking about purchasing a used EKO or BioMass than a Froling, Varm, or Garn.

Look at Maple.... over 5,000 posts and really likes his Varm. Very reassuring endorsement. And BTW Flyingcow's point on the Garn is well taken if you have radiant heat. Our system all up with storage would not be far from a Garn's install cost. Bit of a bummer we're forced air.

Don't over think the nozzle tuning. Lots of EKO and BioMass users now have nozzle opening dimensions that work well across a spectrum of conditions and new users get lots of help via the Stickies. But, on the other hand, I like technology. If I was to buy a new wood boiler today, it would have lambda control for all the same reasons we're dumping carburetors and transitioning to fuel injection on our products to get continuously optimized combustion efficiency and reliability. You've found the right place. Welcome

 

[jasonh]

Thanks tenman, very insightful post. Is the lambda attack the profi? I looked on one of the sites and it only looked like it was for the 75. Wasn't sure. Reading this thread and buzzsaw's thread, what do you guys think about the a switzer boiler? I emailed him last year and he said a 500 gallon boiler was like $9500. Seems like the concensus is, you'll have a little more in it than that with a boiler, storage and insulation. From my understanding the switzer is kinda like a garn. So many decisions.

Good news is my village called me and said there is no ordinance against wood boilers in town. I could run a hardy or other smoke dragon if I wanted to. I know better than that though.

I've been around for a couple years lurking in the shadows but just started posting this past winter. And I would like to get it in for the 16-17 season.

 

[velvetfoot]

That Switzer looks interesting to me. I searched here and it seems to be pressurized vs. unpressurized Garn. They sure look similar on the surface.

 

[jasonh]

Velvet, It's looks the same to me. Maybe heaterman can chime in. He knows his stuff on the garns. Maybe him or anyone else can spread a little more light on any differences. Pressurized would be great since I have a gas boiler in the basement I could tie right into.

 

[jasonh]

I had a breakthrough today. I think I'm going to head towards a varm. My boys are getting close to the age where we can actually take a vacation somewhere warm in the winter. We're thinking of looking into purchasing a condo in the Carolinas at some point for rental income. So with my vacation time from work, we can spend a week somewhere, meaning I won't be here to feed the boiler. I flip over the varm to the pellet head, fill a bin and head south for awhile. I'm not sure if any other manufacturers offer a pellet head or not. I think wood master does.

I was kinda heading toward a varm anyway. Last winter I started looking at them pretty hard in hopes to get things in order to make it happen. Just wanted to see what the eko owners had to say. Now it's just putting all the pieces together.

 

[maple1]

I heavily weighed the backup options also.

I decided on an electric boiler for that, and got rid of all oil stuff. Very cheap & easy to install (relatively speaking), takes up to no room, and doesn't get much easier to 'switch over'. Just flip a switch to send power to it.

Granted, electric boilers can chew a lot of juice - but we're only away maybe 2 days all winter so the extra fuel cost in those two days is irrelevant, in that situation (can coast on storage the first day). Might be with a week of running also?

But if I was rewinding the clock back to then, I might have gone with a mini-split instead. Much more expensive, but has the capability to heat with less expense, and also do A/C in the summer. I'm actually considering one anyway, even after the fact, to add to the mix. I did consider the fact that my boiler can easily take a pellet head in the future, in deciding what boiler to get. It was one of the more minor factors though - and hard to say what the pellet situation will be like around here whenever I get tired of doing wood. It's not the best as it is. So I'm still constantly thinking about future options - preferable fuel choices seem to be in constant state of flux. Even oil isn't looking as bad as it did back then (did I actually say that?).

 

[jasonh]

We have NG here with an 83% efficient boiler running through baseboard. I know where I live we're supposedly in the hot bed for the shale drilling. However my gas bill does not go down event hough I'm running my blaze king 24/7. It continues to go up every year. And for me it's more of a self sufficiency thing than a financial payback in 3 years or less.

I think the pellets might work ok for summer time as well as being away in winter. Depends on what supply looks like at the end of a season. I have no idea though. I never looked into pellets before.

On a seperate note, gas just went up 90 cents here

 

[Buzz Saw]

Jason, what's your heat load? How many BTU's an hour do you require?

I like the Varms too, but not sure they will be big enough. Granted I haven't looked to closely into them either. I also like the Econoburns.......

 

[jasonh]

I think in the 40's an hour. I talked to dean before and we came to the 37 from my usage from the previous year.

 

[plumedic]

I'm listening with interest to this thread because I'm needing to buy a boiler as well. Does anyone have the pellet attachment for their varm? Do they work good? I do like the option of 2 fuels.