Ember protection construction requirements

[keever86]

I'm struggling with understanding a requirement being given to me from the WETT inspector I'm working with. This is in Ontario, Canada.

(I acknowledge I need to do what's necessary for the inspector to pass my installation, so I'll stuff my stubbornness and do what's necessary!! But....it's bugging me!!)

From what I've gathered from many places online, for a stove that requires only ember protection (PE Super 27 in my case), a piece of sheet metal alone, 28 gauge or thicker, is sufficient under the stove. However, the inspector maintains that sheet metal alone is not acceptable unless it's 3/16" or thicker, or it must be in conjunction with a non-combustible pad like 1/2" rockboard, etc.

If all that is required is a non-combustible surface, I don't understand the purpose of the rockboard or non-combustible pad in addition to the sheet metal (20 gauge was my plan).

Can anyone offer anything to help me understand what I may be missing, or refer me to some code or standard that would confirm this one way or the other? Is this possibly a local requirement for my municipality or province? The only standard I've seen referred to is CSA-B365, but it has to be purchased.

I'm feeling guilty about how stubborn I'm feeling about this one, but my brain isn't letting it rest!

Thanks.

 

[begreen]

Most modern wood stoves have either legs or wood stove compartment which provides the required clearance so that floor protection is not required. The inspector should know this. The sheet of metal should suffice. It must be at a minimum thickness of at least 0.38 mm or about 26 ga. according to this WETT inspection site.

Wood Stove Installation Guide | WETT Inspections for Barrie | Orillia | Midland | Alliston

Wood Stove / Space Heater installation information for home owners planning on installing a space heater to augment their homes heating system.

wett-inspection.com

 

[keever86]

Most modern wood stoves have either legs or wood stove compartment which provides the required clearance so that floor protection is not required. The inspector should know this. The sheet of metal should suffice. It must be at a minimum thickness of at least 0.38 mm or about 26 ga. according to this WETT inspection site.

Wood Stove Installation Guide | WETT Inspections for Barrie | Orillia | Midland | Alliston

Wood Stove / Space Heater installation information for home owners planning on installing a space heater to augment their homes heating system.

wett-inspection.com

What you say is my understanding as well. I sent him that link and others. However, he said he checked with other inspectors and they agreed that the sheet metal is not sufficient on its own. That's why I was hoping for some standard to refer to.

At this point, I either need to find another inspector who I agree with, or just stop arguing and move on with life.

 

[begreen]

Have him show or provide you with the specific code he is trying to enforce.

 

[keever86]

Have him show or provide you with the specific code he is trying to enforce.

I'm somewhat reluctant at this point lest I cause frustration because of my resistance! I may try calling someone from the website you linked, since they're relatively close to my area. If nothing else, I can get their take on this.

Maybe I'll get the courage to ask him. I'm running out of options for inspectors, so I don't want to burn any bridges!

 

[begreen]

I hear your concerns. Petty authoritarians can be a pita if they want to be. Still, it is reasonable to ask for the cited regulation so that you can properly build it to code. Thank him for his guidance and ask for the reg so that you can be sure that all points of the code are satisfied in advance of inspection. FWIW, it doesn't hurt to exceed requirements just to be sure.

 

[keever86]

FWIW, it doesn't hurt to exceed requirements just to be sure.

I did end up asking him. Will see what he says.

I'm not trying to just do the minimum. In fact I'm trying to use sheet metal that's over twice the minimum thickness. The reason for wanting the sheet metal is that it doesn't create a toe-stubbing hazard, particularly during the off-season, as well as for aesthetics.

I called someone from the website you linked, and he agreed that sheet metal is sufficient, and told me that he's getting that from the CSA B365 8.1.3.2 standard, which is where the requirements are found for this per Ontario Building Code 9.33.1.2.

As far as I can find, these are the requirements:

Any combustible flooring or floor covering beneath a solid-fuel-burning appliance requires protection from hot embers that might fall during fire tending or ash removal.

Combustible floors must be protected by a continuous, durable, non combustible pad made of a 0.38 mm (0.015 in) thick metal sheet , or a grouted ceramic floor-tile installed in accordance with the National Building Code of Canada shall be considered a durable pad.

Floor protection pads must extend not less than 450 mm (18 in.) in front of the loading door and 200 mm (8 in.) beyond the other sides and back.

 

[Bad LP]

So the difference doing what the inspector wants versus getting your cookies busted on something else is worth how much?
Yes some of them suck but they can also be a royal PITA for a very long time.

 

[snobuilder]

I am trying to learn and understand what a proper install is and why the requirements for floor protection vary between stoves that look to have the firebox positioned a relatively similar distance to a combustible floor. I looked up the PE super 27 and it appears to be very close to my Peasant hearth 2200 as far as height off the floor and both have an ash drawer. in fact the PE 27 ash drawer is very deep and looks to sit within an inch or 2 of the floor.
My manufacturer asks for an R2 floor protection below the stove while the PE27 a simple metal ember pad. But that is simply my observation and doesn't matter against the manufacturers requirements.

I understand that testing is done and what the manufacturer requirements are need to be followed, but why then should a person run into a problem with an inspector? Shouldn't a copy of the manufacturers install requirements suffice under law? And what else should an inspector go by if not the manufacturer's own tested data? Why give someone the sole authority to add cost, time and frustration to an install that follows all tested data?

 

[bholler]

I am trying to learn and understand what a proper install is and why the requirements for floor protection vary between stoves that look to have the firebox positioned a relatively similar distance to a combustible floor. I looked up the PE super 27 and it appears to be very close to my Peasant hearth 2200 as far as height off the floor and both have an ash drawer. in fact the PE 27 ash drawer is very deep and looks to sit within an inch or 2 of the floor.
My manufacturer asks for an R2 floor protection below the stove while the PE27 a simple metal ember pad. But that is simply my observation and doesn't matter against the manufacturers requirements.

I understand that testing is done and what the manufacturer requirements are need to be followed, but why then should a person run into a problem with an inspector? Shouldn't a copy of the manufacturers install requirements suffice under law? And what else should an inspector go by if not the manufacturer's own tested data? Why give someone the sole authority to add cost, time and frustration to an install that follows all tested data?

There are many things that go into clearance and hearth requirements including type of brick. Insulation blanket under the brick etc etc.

As far as the second part about the inspector. Yes absolutely a copy of the manufacturers instructions should be enough. But some inspectors have it stuck in their head how things should be and don't want to be told they are wrong. I have only come across one who was like that but it makes things very difficult. And no they don't actually have the authority to change the requirements

 

[begreen]

I am trying to learn and understand what a proper install is and why the requirements for floor protection vary between stoves that look to have the firebox positioned a relatively similar distance to a combustible floor. I looked up the PE super 27 and it appears to be very close to my Peasant hearth 2200 as far as height off the floor and both have an ash drawer. in fact the PE 27 ash drawer is very deep and looks to sit within an inch or 2 of the floor.
My manufacturer asks for an R2 floor protection below the stove while the PE27 a simple metal ember pad. But that is simply my observation and doesn't matter against the manufacturers requirements.

I understand that testing is done and what the manufacturer requirements are need to be followed, but why then should a person run into a problem with an inspector? Shouldn't a copy of the manufacturers install requirements suffice under law? And what else should an inspector go by if not the manufacturer's own tested data? Why give someone the sole authority to add cost, time and frustration to an install that follows all tested data?

Stoves are built differently. Inexpensive stoves often cut corners to reduce cost. One important clearance is the firebox bottom to the floor, not the ashpan. My guess is that the ashpan acts as a heat shield in this case and PE stoves use pumice firebrick which is an insulator.

 

[firefighterjake]

Not much to add here that hasn't already been said . . . except that if you really want to push the issue as it sounds like you are in the right . . . you can contact the Inspector's Supervisor and explain things . . . everyone has a boss . . . everyone is accountable to someone.

 

[keever86]

Not much to add here that hasn't already been said . . . except that if you really want to push the issue as it sounds like you are in the right . . . you can contact the Inspector's Supervisor and explain things . . . everyone has a boss . . . everyone is accountable to someone.

Not sure if it's different in the US, but in Ontario at least, the inspectors seem mostly to own their own business doing inspections/sweeping/installations, etc, unless they work for a larger company. In this case, I'm pretty sure it's just the business owner, so the only way to push is to file a dispute with the Canadian organization that certifies the inspectors. I'm not sure I'm ready to go to that route yet, since I don't want to create a future headache for myself.