For two stoves in "competition" with one another, what does this mean for the consumer? Does it mean cleaning the chimney liner more often if I purchase the Drolet? Thank you.
Englander 1.63 grams per hour vs. Drolet Austral 5.7 gph emissions
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fox9988
Minister of Fire
Every 79.5 hours of use, the Drolet will emit a pound of emissions (as tested). The Englander would take 278 hours.
How much will stick to the chimney? Who knows.
How much will stick to the chimney? Who knows.
Do you live in an area that currently, or could in the future, have air quality restrictions?
We have restrictions in my area. Some days everyone can burn, some only certified/pellet stoves can, and other days no one can. Unless you have a stove that's under 2.5gph, then you can get an exemption to burn on Red days. Which was nice when we had a straight month of red days not too long ago.
$0.02
We have restrictions in my area. Some days everyone can burn, some only certified/pellet stoves can, and other days no one can. Unless you have a stove that's under 2.5gph, then you can get an exemption to burn on Red days. Which was nice when we had a straight month of red days not too long ago.
$0.02
Wow Hoozie! I never even heard of this kind of restriction. I guess you guys in the Pacific Northwest think of these things....out here by Chicago the worst I've ever seen is a similar restriction on watering your lawn during a mild drought. Even numbered addresses can water on even-numbered days....etc.
But no, there is no gph emission basis out here. Just met with my local building inspector. They are not familiar with a free standing wood burning stove in a large masonry fireplace- so they will figure out over the weekend if I need to drill a hole in the back of my 1950s masonry fireplace to add a fresh air intake to the Englander 30 or Drolet Austral. There are 65,000 people in my neighborhood community, and they can't recall anyone doing this here....
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fox9988
Minister of Fire
Little Rock, dang that's hard living.
Very, very few houses are tight enough to need a outside air kit (OAK). Some areas require it by code.
It's not so much us, as it is the EPA, lol. Main problem is we live in a big bowl/basin, and when the wind doesn't blow, it can fill up with smoke and really get pretty bad. If all the smoke monsters were replaced we likely wouldn't have an issue.
As to your original question, I have no idea how the flue will vary between the two. But burn either wrong, and you'll be able to make lots of creosote
As to your original question, I have no idea how the flue will vary between the two. But burn either wrong, and you'll be able to make lots of creosote
blacktail
Minister of Fire
It's a geography issue. Cold, heavy air gets trapped in the lowlands, which happens to be where most people live and burn. It's cold, so people naturally want to burn. But it's stagnant, so the air just gets dirtier and dirtier.
Having lived in the flat Midwest I never even thought of this....but it makes sense.
And thank you for explaining the definition of OAK (Outside Air Kit). I have come across a few posts where members here say, "You don't need Oak" or "Make sure you use OAK". And I thought, these people are very particular about oak wood....ha ha ha.
They are trying to figure out this "new" rule about a stove in a fireplace needing an OAK, or not.
And thank you for explaining the definition of OAK (Outside Air Kit). I have come across a few posts where members here say, "You don't need Oak" or "Make sure you use OAK". And I thought, these people are very particular about oak wood....ha ha ha.
They are trying to figure out this "new" rule about a stove in a fireplace needing an OAK, or not.
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It's not so much us, as it is the EPA, lol. Main problem is we live in a big bowl/basin, and when the wind doesn't blow, it can fill up with smoke and really get pretty bad. If all the smoke monsters were replaced we likely wouldn't have an issue.
As to your original question, I have no idea how the flue will vary between the two. But burn either wrong, and you'll be able to make lots of creosote
It is not the EPA, but state govts. that are making these decisions. And treehuggers are not driving them. Looks like Utah's Rep. governor Herbert is pushing for a total ban on winter wood burning in some counties.
http://utahpolicy.com/index.php/fea...hing-ban-on-woodburning-stoves-and-fireplaces
Maybe not there, but here, the EPA tightened the standards and put us in non-attainment status, and now the State DEQ & City are required to try to attain them.
(broken link removed)
BUT, that's not what this thread is about. I merely mentioned it as a possible consideration if he lived in an area where 5.7gph, while clean, may not be 'clean enough.'
Huntindog1
Minister of Fire
1.63 grams emission is pretty remarkable as most other tube stoves of the same basic design have trouble just being double of that number. I would say that the drolet is higher due to the bypass damper feature. As your not going to be able to completely seal off that part of the baffle and some leakage occurs accounting for the extra emissions of particulates. If your flue is insulated most likely most of the particulates will escape out into the air before it cools and sticks to the walls of the flue. Both stoves are rated at 75% efficient. I emailed englander about their rating as its not found on their website.
@Huntindog1: Thank you for the info that each is rated at 75%....
FYI: Here in Chicago we are finding West Virginia coal dust in the air....The coal deemed "too dirty" to burn in the USA is getting bought by China. They are building small coal plants along their eastern coast, so that the particulates immediately go over the ocean, are carried into the jet stream, down through Canada, and hits Chicago. Small world....
FYI: Here in Chicago we are finding West Virginia coal dust in the air....The coal deemed "too dirty" to burn in the USA is getting bought by China. They are building small coal plants along their eastern coast, so that the particulates immediately go over the ocean, are carried into the jet stream, down through Canada, and hits Chicago. Small world....
Huntindog1
Minister of Fire
Good Point as many feel that emissions restrictions on wood stoves are such a tiny part of particulates in the air. One western forest fire puts out enough particulates to equal like all the stoves in the usa particulates for 100 years.
Maybe not there, but here, the EPA tightened the standards and put us in non-attainment status, and now the State DEQ & City are required to try to attain them.
(broken link removed)
BUT, that's not what this thread is about. I merely mentioned it as a possible consideration if he lived in an area where 5.7gph, while clean, may not be 'clean enough.'
The EPA has proposed tighter standards and is accepting commentary now. That doesn't mean you can't use your current stove. They would affect new stove sales only. And they have a lot of good provisions for the stove buyer as well. We are also talking several years down the road for them to go into full effect. It's been 25 years since the first round of EPA standards for woodstoves and most of us here have benefited greatly from them. From what I saw in DC at the decathlon we have a lot to look forward to with the next generation stoves like cleaner burning, more heat using less wood. There will be some interesting new options coming down the road in the next 3-5 yrs..
Ahh, we're talking about two different things, mainly because I left out some key words.
In 2006, the EPA tightened air quality particulate matter standards (PM2.5), and in 2009, put us in non-attainment status due to the now bad air quality. One of the ways the state DEQ and City are trying to clean up the air is by limiting the use of wood stoves. (this is all in the first few pages of the PDF I linked above)
During the 3-4 week long inversion we had earlier this winter, no one could burn. Unless your stove was cleaner than 2.5gph, then you can get an exemption to burn on those days. So, I was fine with my 30, but if I had the Drolet, I wouldn't have been able to burn. That was the point I was trying to make - changing air quality standards may limit when you can burn, based on the emission rating of your stove.
The EPA considering new emission standards for new stoves is a different topic. And to be clear, I do want clean air. I also want to be able to burn and stay warm, which I couldn't do in this area with the Drolet
Got it. The state is the regulating authority. The EPA just sets the standard. I can see how Klamath Basin's topography would trap emissions during a temp inversion. Mountain valleys are often where colder air pools and remains. Looks like the new stoves like the PH and Cape Cod would be a blessing there.
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