Englander 17-vl cooking me out of the house

[tech1234]

Hi guys and gals, I am a long time lurker but first time poster. I love the forum. I am hoping to gather some input form the knowledge base here. Here is my situation, I just finished building my new house and I can't keep my englander 17-vl from cooking me out of the house and also I can't get burn times of more than 4 hours. (and when I do the thermometer is always over 80*f.!)

The house:
super insulated timber frame cabin. super tight and no thermal bridging. open concept. Small Main house is only 18'x18'. 2 stories with insulated (on outside of concrete) walkout basement. located in central NH.

Stove: Englander 17-vl, on 1st floor. (living room) Dura tech 6" straight up through the 2nd floor and out the roof. Mega draft!

Wood : 2 year seasoned mixed hardwood

So I underestimated just how energy efficient this house would be as well as just how much heat the little Englander would put off. I am trying to find a way to heat with this stove without cooking my self out and also try to get longer burn times. I want to stick with wood for many reasons.

Ideas:
1) put thermostatically controlled fan right behind the stove and blow excess btu's outside (but I don't like wasting energy)
2)flip direction of stove fan to blow heat into basement via ducting and use insulated concrete as thermal storage. burn stove 1 to 2 times daily. (not sure of effectiveness)
3) build bed of coals and burn "green" wood for less btu output and poss longer burn times (creosote?)
4) build copper coil heat sink for on top of stove and circulate heated water to basement 55 gallon drum storage for heat storage and slow dissipating (see drawing)

If anyone has some input please post up. Also I have attached some pics to help explain.

 

[Jags]

Neat little house. So the little 17 is too much? Wow - wish I had that problem. Anyhoo...lowering the temp yet extending burn times is gonna be tough for that little guy. What kind of stove top temps are you running? About the only thing I can think of would be staying at the lowest end of a 'safe' burn temp.

It does sound like you might get away with a couple of smaller "batch" burns throughout the day.

No to green wood - that is just bad all the way around.

I kinda like the venting of air to the basement idea. Not real fond of the heated water idea unless it was well thought out.

What about cracking a window?

 

[mellow]

Nice setup! I must say this is a first, usually I see a 30 in the topic for chasing someone out

Looks like you need a different setup, the 17 is a great stove but by design it burns in cycles. Sounds like something like a (broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/palladian) would be a good fit for you, giving you an even heat for longer periods of time.

How many BTU's do you need?

 

[begreen]

Maybe move the 17 down to the basement? If possible design a safe water heating system that works without a pump required.

 

[tech1234]

Neat little house. So the little 17 is too much? Wow - wish I had that problem. Anyhoo...lowering the temp yet extending burn times is gonna be tough for that little guy. What kind of stove top temps are you running? About the only thing I can think of would be staying at the lowest end of a 'safe' burn temp.

It does sound like you might get away with a couple of smaller "batch" burns throughout the day.

No to green wood - that is just bad all the way around.

I kinda like the venting of air to the basement idea. Not real fond of the heated water idea unless it was well thought out.

What about cracking a window?

Thanks for the quick reply. the stovetop temp is usually 400 to 450 degrees.

cracking a window works great until you leave or go to sleep and then as you can imagine the temp drops dramatically. I was thinking about a thermatically controlled window opener similar to that you would see in a greenhouse.

"Batch" fires is what I do now as the house holds heat really well but during the actual burn the room temperature spikes. I would say I usually do one 3 hour burn in the morning and a 4 hour burn at night. I am worried about the constant chimney cooldown creating creosote

 

[tech1234]

Nice setup! I must say this is a first, usually I see a 30 in the topic for chasing someone out

Looks like you need a different setup, the 17 is a great stove but by design it burns in cycles. Sounds like something like a (broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/palladian) would be a good fit for you, giving you an even heat for longer periods of time.

How many BTU's do you need?

are you saying switch to a soapstone stove because of the thermal mass? Or is there another reason?
I do not know how many BTUs I need I guess I would have to have an energy audit as any of the online calculators don't really cover the house type that I have

 

[tech1234]

Maybe move the 17 down to the basement? If possible design a safe water heating system that works without a pump required.

I get the feeling that if the stove was in the basement I would not have any problems however the basement is used for my dogs and they would not be very happy with any extreme heat spikes. Also I think you might be onto something with a properly designed water system. maybe this is something I should post in the boiler room section as well.

 

[tech1234]

Maybe move the 17 down to the basement? If possible design a safe water heating system that works without a pump required.

also I have excessive draft now and I get the feeling that if I extended the chimney down to the basement it would only exaggerate that problem

 

[Rickb]

Seems like a catalytic stove is in your future. Mine runs with stove tops closer to 300-350. I don't think you will be able to run any non cat stove low enough to not heat too much. Plus the longer burn times.

 

[begreen]

also I have excessive draft now and I get the feeling that if I extended the chimney down to the basement it would only exaggerate that problem

a key damper would probably take care of that.

 

[mellow]

are you saying switch to a soapstone stove because of the thermal mass? Or is there another reason?

There is another reason, it is catalytic, it can be run slow and low like you are looking for, the mass helps even out the heat as well.

 

[Tenn Dave]

Sounds like your setup calls for a cat stove. It allows for a much lower temp, controllable fire with longer burn times, and keeps your chimney cleaner. Two brands that come to mind are Woodstock and BK.. And I'm sure there are others as well.

 

[MaintenanceMan]

Are you using the blower? If so try not using it and just utilize the radiant and natural convection of the stove and see if that helps. I think if you move it to the basement your probably not going to get the heat to the top floor you'd want and might have even shorter burn times due to increased draft.

 

[begreen]

The setup calls for a video of a fire on the TV. The TV, refrig and lights plus body warmth probably provide most of the heat for the place unless it's very cold outside. Open the windows when you want a fire. The house doesn't need wood heat unless there is a vent or more space to heat.

(FWIW, most cats and dogs head right to the stove. The basement would at least increase the cu ftg by 33%.)

 

[Cynnergy]

I like the idea of a greenhouse window opener. You would have to set the temp it closed at slightly cooler than you want in the house so that the heat swing isn't too dramatic. You could test out the principle one weekend day to see if it would work.

Otherwise moving to basement is my vote.

 

[draughtdude]

tech1234, Any progress with your dilemma? Did you get a chance to try the damper?

 

[tech1234]

tech1234, Any progress with your dilemma? Did you get a chance to try the damper?

So here is the answer I came up with (with everyone's help)

First thing I did was swap out the stove with a new one at home depot after talking with a manager there about my problem about not being able to slow down the stove. Sure enough the new stove can be controlled like you would expect. night and day difference! idk what the problem was.

Second thing I did was put an electric heater in the basement that runs at (actual) 850 watts 24/7 (keeps a constant trickle of heat in building)

Third I only burn the stove when the sun is not out. (if the sun is coming in my south facing windows and the electric heater is on (only 850 watts) the entire house never drops below 63 even if its 0* out.

my usual gig (mid winter) is start the stove at 530 when I get home from work and burn at 300-400 until 10pm ish. then load if full, turn it all the way down and go to bed. repeat next day. (if it is over 20* this requires cracking a window)

I am on track to only burn a cord all winter and the women has been enjoying 78+ temps all winter! Small house FTW

 

[begreen]

Good to hear that this is working out for you. I envy the nice tight house you have. Well done!

 

[draughtdude]

Wow, cool! It sounds like you've found a pretty good routine. I wonder where the air leak in the first stove was? Would you happen to have any photos of your install? I'm curious to see what it looks like!