Englander 25 EP problem

[Jason Knapp]

Hello everyone! I have a 2009 25 EP that is making me a little crazy. I have to clean the ash pot every 8 hours. I have tried different pellets, different heat and blower settings, I've tried to clean everything outlined in the owners manual, NOTHING seems to help! Does anyone have an idea?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

How long have you had this stove and when was the last time you cleaned every thing including the vent, vent termination, and combustion blower and the cavity it is in, along with from that cavity back towards that firebox and until it exits over the burn pot and then from the cavity back to the clean out tee?

Tell us piece by piece what is in the vent system.

 

[Jason Knapp]

I bought it used in May 2012, I cleaned it as the manual suggested before I put it in the house, which was in September, 2012, but judging by your questions I have missed something.......
I installed all new exhaust piping and the OAK.
Are you saying maybe I'm not getting enough air to the fire box? Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Well that stove is likely plugged or has had its settings screwed up.

If you didn't remove and clean the combustion blower and the cavity it sits in I'm sure you didn't have access to all of the exhaust system. You need a combustion blower gasket for this before you start because they generally can not be reused due to tearing when removing the blower..

What are the pieces in your exhaust system starting at the stove there is a limit on what you can attempt to vent through as venting restricts the air flow. There is also a corresponding limit on OAK installations.

What are the lower three settings on your stove?

These get changed to match the stove to the venting and pellets being burned, you should consult with England before changing these.

Then we need to talk door, window, hopper, and burn pot gaskets along with door and hopper latches..

And there is also the pellet you are burning.

Burn pot build up is usually the sign of a dirty stove or otherwise compromised air flow.

 

[DexterDay]

What are the bottom 3 buttons set at?? LBA-LBF-AOT?

(Edit: posted same moment that Smokey did )

 

[Jason Knapp]

I'll definetly order the gasket ASAP and clean the combustion blower area completely. As far as venting, I have a 1 ft section, a 45 then 2 feet throught the wall into a cleanout tee, then up 3 feet to a termination. The OAK is a little over 2 feet long of 2" pipe. The exhaust pipe is 3" duravent twist lock. The stoves settings are 1, 5, 1. I can't adjust them. A rep from Englander said they are correct. I am burning Pennington hardwood pellets, but I've tried a few bags of Supreme Green and Northern, as well as Somerset. All have the same results. I'm gonna get the blower gasket and clean the life out of the combustion side.

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

Be sure you follow the air paths all the way into the fire box. The area from over the burn pot going both left and right under the heat exchanger tubes and between those tubes and above those tubes needs a good brushing, on both sides there should be a path that goes down behind the fire box, hopefully there are clean out covers you can remove and run a brush through going up to the top of the stove. Also pounding on the fire box rear wall (not with a fake fire brick if there is one, remove those if present) to loosen up ash keep brush pounding and vacuuming until nothing else drops down.

Now after I get through torturing my stove I hit it with a leaf blower in vacuum mode from outside via the vent pipe this pulls stuff that you loosen up but can't quite get to out of the stove.

Then be certain to test all gaskets and latches.

 

[DexterDay]

If you press the LBA button (Low burn air) then press BOTH Up buttons, you will up the LBA.

I still think you have a burn pot bypass or some blockage. But in the short term, you could try upping the LBA by 1 (1-6-1)?

 

[DexterDay]

There was NO DIFFERENCE between Pennington and Somersets?

Find that one a little hard to believe? Even a plugged stove should notice the difference between those 2 (Penningtons are on my "No Buy List". I experimented for the last few years with them (few bags every year) and they have seemingly gotten worse, which didn't seem at all possible.

 

[Shaw520]

Check window and door gaskets,... Ive had to replace/reseal the window gasket on mine twice,... turned out that the metal tabs/clamps werent putting enough pressure on the ceramic,... tweeked/bent them slightly to allow more pressure when tightening.

.. your flame should be lively,.. lazy flame indicates blockage or intake leaks.

 

[imacman]

As has been mentioned a couple times above, the stove has airflow issues......not enough air through the burn pot means not enough air to blow the ash out of it.

Probably the main reason the original owner sold it....they didn't do the proper cleaning/maintenance on it. The stove needs to have every opening cleaned, both blowers removed and cleaned, and the stove taken outdoors and blown out with compressed air and a leaf blower run on it.

Door gaskets need to be checked too.

Bottom 3 button settings should be fine where they are IF the stove was clean.

 

[Jason Knapp]

I meant thay I saw no difference with my ash pot plugging up. The somersets burned a lot hotter. I bought this stove and 2.5 tons of pellets came with it. Once the Penningtons are gone, I'll most likely be using Somersets. Thank you everyone, I'll let you know how I make out after I clean the areas mentioned earlier.
I checked all of the gaskets using the method described in the owners manual, and all seem good. I will be replacing them at the end of the burn season.

 

[fmsm]

I got rid of my 25 epi because it required daily care. Purchased brand new, went into a 4" vent straight up the chimney with a proper installation. The burnpot required a good scraping every 2-3 days from brand new. Only quality pellets were burned, outside air kit through the ash cleanout as directed by Englander.

Slid my Harman P35i into place with the same setup and have none of the same issues!

 

[Jason Knapp]

OK, Here's an update. I got home from work and started cleaning the stove as promised. I went to a local hardware store and bought several boiler/furnace cleaning brushes of varying sizes. I took the stove apart and cleaned EVERYTHING. All exhaust passages included, except I didn't clean the exhaust blower as I am waiting for a new gasket. I removed the burn pot cradle and cleaned it too. I found the burn pot had a few flaws in it. It was welded incorrectly and there was a large air gap on one side of it. There was also a lot of welding slag that prevented the pot from sitting tightly against the cradle. I ground off the slag, and welded the air gap closed. There was A TON of ash behind the welded steel plate in the stove. After a good cleaning, I re assembled it and it is running AWESOME! The ash is being blown out of the burn pot, the flame is bright and active and the glass is staying clean! I am very pleased! I will continue my cleaning once my exhaust blower gasket comes in. But until then, THANKS EVERYONE WHO HELPED WITH THIS DIAGNOSIS!

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

It usually only takes a bit of cleaning and looking at things along with "minor" adjustments to get them burning well.

 

[imacman]

Yep, it's amazing what a good cleaning will do for these stoves. Nice job Jason....keep the stove clean & it will keep you toasty!

 

[DexterDay]

Nice job cleaning... Used stoves are often sold because the Original owner Plugged it up and had no idea that it needed cleaned So they sold it....

The first thing that needs to be done with a used stove....? Is a leafblower, an air compressor, and numerous brushes!!

Congrats. Keep it clean and it should keep you warm for years to come.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

OK, Here's an update. I got home from work and started cleaning the stove as promised. I went to a local hardware store and bought several boiler/furnace cleaning brushes of varying sizes. I took the stove apart and cleaned EVERYTHING. All exhaust passages included, except I didn't clean the exhaust blower as I am waiting for a new gasket. I removed the burn pot cradle and cleaned it too. I found the burn pot had a few flaws in it. It was welded incorrectly and there was a large air gap on one side of it. There was also a lot of welding slag that prevented the pot from sitting tightly against the cradle. I ground off the slag, and welded the air gap closed. There was A TON of ash behind the welded steel plate in the stove. After a good cleaning, I re assembled it and it is running AWESOME! The ash is being blown out of the burn pot, the flame is bright and active and the glass is staying clean! I am very pleased! I will continue my cleaning once my exhaust blower gasket comes in. But until then, THANKS EVERYONE WHO HELPED WITH THIS DIAGNOSIS!

just out of curiosity did you happen to take any pic's of the pot? i don't doubt your findings but i'd love to have some shots of it. feedback is important to me. makes it easier for me to head off these kinds of issues.

check my sig line for contact info, would love to hear from you

 

[Jason Knapp]

I didnt take any pictures, however I can take a pic of the underside of the burn pot so you can clearly see where the gap used to be. Now that the stove is running better, its very evident that there is a distinct quality difference between Pennington and Somerset. I'll get through the season with what I have, but after that I'll be looking for a brand worth burning!

 

[stoveguy2esw]

I didnt take any pictures, however I can take a pic of the underside of the burn pot so you can clearly see where the gap used to be. Now that the stove is running better, its very evident that there is a distinct quality difference between Pennington and Somerset. I'll get through the season with what I have, but after that I'll be looking for a brand worth burning!

no biggie , would have been worth it had we had a shot before the fix, anyway im happy that you have resolved the issue

 

[Jason Knapp]

Hey Mike, I have another question for you. Could I turn up the Low Air Burn on my stove to compensate for a low quality pellet? My Penningtons do leave a lot of ash after a 12 hour burn. My factory settings are 1, 5, 1. If I adjusted the Low Air to 6 or 7, would this make a difference?

 

[imacman]

IMO, don't go higher than 6 on the LBA. If Mike does see this, he'll tell you for sure. But at some point, you start sending the heated air through the stove too fast, and up the exhaust....it doesn't have time to get the heat extracted from it.

 

[Jason Knapp]

Great, thanks for the info. Does the low air setting only work on certain speeds? Ex. Being that it says "low air" does that mean it is only effective at low speed. as in speed 1 or 2?

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

All heat ranges on your stove Jason.

 

[Jason Knapp]

Very good. Thanks again. I gotta say, I've joined a lot of Forums, but this forum is extremely informative. Even better, no one has broken my stones for asking a dumb question! Keep up the great work.