Englander 30NCH not burning all coals

[larryjbjr]

Ok, I just bought an Englander 30NCH from Home Depot. It's in my basement, which is not finished. I have a 2 story farmhouse built around 1900, part of it maybe well before 1900. The ground floor is around 1400 sq ft, the 2nd floor 600 sq ft, and the basement is around 1000 sq ft. The house is pretty drafty, though I did blow in insulation into the walls when I remodeled it a couple years ago. So, I know I'm asking a lot out of the stove, but I have a boiler and radiators as well so I'm basically using the stove to assist the primary heat and hopefully cut my propane bill way down.

Anyway, I fired it up for the first time yesterday morning, so I'm still learning how to use it. (side note, any advice for a newbie would be appreciated) I load it north/south. I ran it nearly full throttle most of the day yesterday while learning how it works. I stoked it up last night and went to bed, then again around 4:00 this morning before work, and the wife stoked it again around 10 this morning. So, when I got home around 645 this evening all I had was a nice bed of red hot coals. So, I got to stirring them up and discovered that the back 8" or so of the fire box was full of unburnt coals and chunks of wood. They were not glowing like the ones up front, they were dark and cold. I noticed this same thing yesterday evening when I stoked it as well.

So, any ideas what I'm doing wrong? Why is the front of my firebox burning nice, but the back not? Or, is this normal operation?

 

[bsutter01]

How seasoned is your wood? What is the MC? Sounds like wet wood.

 

[larryjbjr]

It's from elm trees that were already dead in the woods, bark all fell off. I just cut them up. So, they may have been a little damp from the snow, but inside seem well seasoned. I don't have a moisture meter to check them with though.


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[bsutter01]

If you just cut them they are not seasoned. Laying on the ground is still wet wood, regardless if the bark is loose. You need to season 1-2 years off the ground. You can get a moisture meter pretty cheap - harbor freight for example. Pull a split inside for 24 hours to acclimate to temp, then split again and check the MC.

 

[jotul8e2]

Dead standing trees are almost never "seasoned". I use a fair amount of hardwood from dead trees and find that at a minimum one full year is required after the wood is cut, split and stacked. Even from trees dead four, five, six years.

The NC 30 feeds air from the front. There is no question that you will get a more complete burn in the front than the back.

The NC 30 has no grate - nothing to keep the ashes from smothering the coals. This is not a fault of the stove, it is inherent in the design. In addition, it is surprisingly sensitive to the exact use of the air control rod - I say "surprisingly" because the slider controls only a portion of the total air fed into the firebox. I have found sliding it in just a 1/4" too far will kill the secondaries, even when there is a lot of travel left. But with proper use of the air control, dry and seasoned wood will burn rather completely with only a manageable number of unburned coals left at the back in the ashes.

For what is is worth, once the stove is up to temperature I close the air control until just half the spring is protruding beyond the lip. That exact setting will depend on your draft and manufacturing tolerances.

 

[larryjbjr]

If it makes a difference, they were not laying on the ground. Some were still standing straight up, others were leaning on other trees.


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[larryjbjr]

But, I plan to get a moisture meter soon.


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[larryjbjr]

Dead standing trees are almost never "seasoned". I use a fair amount of hardwood from dead trees and find that at a minimum one full year is required after the wood is cut, split and stacked. Even from trees dead four, five, six years.

Interesting. I just figured they looked very dry. They ignite super easy and burn very hot. Doesn't take much to get the top of the stove over 400°.

I'm gonna have to get a meter soon....


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[Hogwildz]

If you're running it wide open air the entire time, there is part of your problem.

 

[larryjbjr]

If you're running it wide open air the entire time, there is part of your problem.

I don't. I keep it wide open till the flue gets over 300°, then start closing it till I can keep a consistent 300-400°.



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[Hogwildz]

300-400 is far too low

 

[larryjbjr]

300-400 is far too low

For the flue?


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[Woody Stover]

For the flue?

I think Hog meant stove top. Do you have a meter on the stove top? What is it reading. You want to cut the air to the lowest level you can, while still maintaining secondaries and clean plume out of the stack.
I wouldn't be surprised if that wood tested in the low 20s. Maybe not ideal, but workable. Stacking some wood near the stove for a couple days before use (not violating clearance requirements in the manual) can help a bit. You might have to open up the air a little at the end of the burn to keep the wood in back burning.

 

[larryjbjr]

Oh ok. Usually at that point the stove top is around 500° according to my IR gun. That reading is from the center of the stove top. Same for the sides of the stove.

Actually I do stack around a week's worth of wood about 5 feet from the stove.

So, what I'm experiencing is pretty normal for this stove?





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[kennyp2339]

Welcome to hearth, It sounds like your doing everything correctly as far as running the stove, maybe shoot for a slightly higher stove top (600f)
I think I'm on board with the wood being a little sub par, perhaps you can bring in a couple loads and stack them neatly on a rack to help dry them out, maybe you can find a free pallet score and use that wood to mix in with the elm to help it burn a little hotter. and lastly you can buy some compressed wood blocks and use those either as a mix in or do a load of strait blocks just to see how the stove is suppose to normally burn.
Either way you did make a great choice for a nice big budget stove, it is imo the best built stove for the $$$, I wish you the best of luck and start collecting wood now for next year, get a bite of the wood bug in the woodshed section of this website, shoot for the 3 year plan.

 

[Coyoterun]

It's from elm trees that were already dead in the woods, bark all fell off. I just cut them up. So, they may have been a little damp from the snow, but inside seem well seasoned. I don't have a moisture meter to check them with though.

Maybe the old poem is accurate:

Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E'en the very flames are cold
But ash green or ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown

Elm just takes a long time c/s/s to season. Even standing dead isn't gonna dry very well,.

 

[larryjbjr]

Coyoterun, I don't think so. This morning I stoked it full and sat down to check this thread, leaving the damper full open. After a while I got up to check it and the flue was reading 700°, and the stove top 900°! That elm was cooking! I quickly shut the damper till it cooled off a bit then cracked it back open a tad.


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[Woody Stover]

Elm just takes a long time c/s/s to season. Even standing dead isn't gonna dry very well

I've cut dead-standing, bark-gone Elm like he's talking about (Red Elm, though) and it metered in the low 20s in the trunk, 20% in the branches.

Maybe the old poem is accurate:
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E'en the very flames are cold
But ash green or ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown

Not entirely...I've tweaked it a bit.
Wet Elm burns like churchyard mould,
Will ne'er flame 'til you are old
Ash brown starts well, burns with heat
Ash green, queen will have cold feet.

 

[larryjbjr]

Actually, this is red elm.






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[bholler]

Coyoterun, I don't think so. This morning I stoked it full and sat down to check this thread, leaving the damper full open. After a while I got up to check it and the flue was reading 700°, and the stove top 900°! That elm was cooking! I quickly shut the damper till it cooled off a bit then cracked it back open a tad.

Even the wettest wood will dry out eventually in the stove and take off. How long did it take to get to those temps and how big of a bed of coals did you load on?

 

[Coyoterun]

I've cut dead-standing, bark gone Elm like he's talking about (Red Elm, though) and it metered in the low 20s in the trunk, 20% in the branches.

Not entirely...I've tweaked it a bit.
Wet Elm burns like churchyard mould,
Will ne'er flame 'til you are old
Ash brown starts well, burns with heat
Ash green, queen will have cold feet.

We pretty much only have Siberian or Chinese elm around here, every area is different for sure.

 

[James02]

Wood

 

[Woody Stover]

We pretty much only have Siberian or Chinese elm around here, every area is different for sure.

Those are introduced or ornamental varieties. Here, we are in the range for American, Slippery (Red,) and a couple others to a lesser degree, but I've only see Red so far. Biggest one in the woods has been 19" but most die earlier and don't get as big.

 

[larryjbjr]

Even the wettest wood will dry out eventually in the stove and take off. How long did it take to get to those temps and how big of a bed of coals did you load on?

It was quite a bit of hot coals, but only took about 10 minutes maybe to get to cooking like that.


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[larryjbjr]

So, I understand that a slow burning fire with a flue temp less than around 275° will build up creosote. But what about when it gets down to just hot coals and the flue temp is only about 250°? Does that cause creosote build-up as well?


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