Englander Stoves - 12-FP vs. 13-NC

[Captain]

Hello all, great site, lots of good info on here. I am starting to prepare for winter and have been doing my research on stoves. I'm on a budget, and am looking for my best value. It looks like the Englanders are great values (if anyone has any better suggestions I'm open to them as well). I'm trying to decide between the 12-FP and the 13-NC. 12-FP is $100 less. My home is right around 1000 square foot, and very well insulated. The 12-FP seems to be a great match for that, but from what I've read the 12-FP is not nearly as efficient, because it is not EPA rated (although it has controls unlike any other 35:1 which is cool). My question is: will I end up burning more wood with the 12-FP? Or is it worth it to go ahead and spend roughly an extra $100 and get the 13-NC, even though it is more than I need with its 1500 square foot capacity? My goal is burning the least amount of wood as possible. I'll gladly spend extra on the 13-NC if it burns less wood in the long run, and if it's a much better unit. Your thoughts? Thanks guys.

 

[SlyFerret]

If you can afford the extra $100 now, go for the 13-NC.

I've got its big brother, the 30-NC and it's one heck of a stove.

The improved efficiency from the 13-NC will pay you back that $100 many times over the life of the stove.

-SF

 

[Hiram Maxim]

After having an older (1982 era) stove and now my Englander there is absolutely No question..........Get the Englander 13 and don't look back. That $100 will get eaten up so fast in a non EPA.

 

[N/A N/A]

Sorry guys I strugle some times with what I am doing...

 

[N/A N/A]

I had the 12FP. As you stated it is a 35 to 1 stove. What ever the he!! that means. 35 fuel to 1 air??? I dont know. It is a good stove for the money. But unless you plan on burning 100% perfectly seasoned wood dont buy it. The only thing I found that would burn correctly with the door closed up tight was kiln dried oak pieces. I caught my chimney on fire three times the first season with reasonably dried wood, until I went out and bought the chimney brush and extensions to clean my own chimney. I was not about to pay a chimney sweep $100 each time to come out and clean my stack three times a year. Englander stoves are good for the money. The 12FP gives you LIMITED air control so if you dont have seasoned wood dont get it. I burned my 12FP 95% of the time with the door cracked open. My home is a little over 1200 sq foot. The 12FP would struggle to heat my house full time minus the two spare bedrooms. I am sure that the larger englander stoves may do you just fine. Some stoves on the market you can get by with burning less than ideal seasoned wood. Not with this stove. Hope this helps. And just as a side note to you stack guys, mine is about seven foot long straight up through the roof with no bends. No reason to have a poor draft. And it is EPA rated.

 

[cmonSTART]

We had a 12FP for a while. It served it's purpose, but the 13NC would have been a much better choice!!

If you want to heat your house, go with the 13NC. It's built for the job.

 

[Captain]

Great info guys! I guess savings can be had not only with burning less wood, but less chimney cleaning too. If I got a 13-NC, would a blower be necessary?

 

[tkirk22]

A $100 difference would make it a no-brainer for me. Go with the 13NC. Less smoke, less wood use. I have the 13 insert model. It's a good little stove and it puts out the heat.

 

[begreen]

Great info guys! I guess savings can be had not only with burning less wood, but less chimney cleaning too. If I got a 13-NC, would a blower be necessary?

If I was going for a non-EPA stove I would get a used stove with an efficient design. I wouldn't even think of getting the 12 given the choice of the 13 for just $100 more.

Whether you'll need the blower or not depends on what you are trying to heat. The blower will help with getting the place up to temp faster and with circulating the heat. But many people don't use a blower on their stoves. If you have a fairly open floorplan and will be running the stove 24/7 you might try a year without a blower. It can always be added later.

 

[bluefrier]

Hello all, great site, lots of good info on here. I am starting to prepare for winter and have been doing my research on stoves. I'm on a budget, and am looking for my best value. It looks like the Englanders are great values (if anyone has any better suggestions I'm open to them as well). I'm trying to decide between the 12-FP and the 13-NC. 12-FP is $100 less. My home is right around 1000 square foot, and very well insulated. The 12-FP seems to be a great match for that, but from what I've read the 12-FP is not nearly as efficient, because it is not EPA rated (although it has controls unlike any other 35:1 which is cool). My question is: will I end up burning more wood with the 12-FP? Or is it worth it to go ahead and spend roughly an extra $100 and get the 13-NC, even though it is more than I need with its 1500 square foot capacity? My goal is burning the least amount of wood as possible. I'll gladly spend extra on the 13-NC if it burns less wood in the long run, and if it's a much better unit. Your thoughts? Thanks guys.

More heat, More efficient, less smoke, longer burn time and less wood for a one time fee of $100.
That's a no brainer.

 

[stovehugger]

I would have to say the same. Dont let the $100.00 that you save keep you from buying a much better stove in the 13nc It will perform better and you will get much more bang for your buck. Do you have a chimney setup yet?

 

[Captain]

I would have to say the same. Dont let the $100.00 that you save keep you from buying a much better stove in the 13nc It will perform better and you will get much more bang for your buck. Do you have a chimney setup yet?

Nope not yet, think I have that one figured out here https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/19952/. Now I have another decision to make: I found a Century model FW240007 that is brand new in box that I can pick up for $275. It is a smaller stove and weighs a lot less than the 13 which has me concerned. But from what I've read on here people are pretty pleased with it, except for short burn times. Still EPA rated though. Wonder if the 13 can burn longer? It is good up to 1000 square foot. Decisions Decisions...

 

[webbie]

I'd jump at a price like that...then again, I'm cheap......I would not worry about the weight, we have lots of happy century users on the board. But you do have to make sure the firebox is big enough for you.

Anyway, at $275....you could probably resell it for double that in season!

 

[fossil]

That's the stove I have in my workshop. I'm sure it's no Englander, but it's a pretty dang good little stove, and it gets the job done for me. Of course, I'm not heating 1000SF with it, nor do I try for anything like an overnight burn...but one of these days when my wife boots me outta the house, I might have to. The price sure sounds right. Give it some thought. Rick

 

[cmonSTART]

Personally, I would still stick with the 13. We live in an old (1850) New England farmhouse with not a very open floor plan and a blower really helps us move the air around. There is a noticeable difference with and without it. We're planning on opening up a couple of the walls before winter (hopefully).

 

[cmonSTART]

Nice setup fossil. I like the brick.

 

[Captain]

That's the stove I have in my workshop. I'm sure it's no Englander, but it's a pretty dang good little stove, and it gets the job done for me. Of course, I'm not heating 1000SF with it, nor do I try for anything like an overnight burn...but one of these days when my wife boots me outta the house, I might have to. The price sure sounds right. Give it some thought. Rick

What is that area under the stove door, is it another door for ash clean out or what?

 

[fossil]

You can get a blower for the Century...in fact, I've seen 'em on eBay. Part number's in the owner's manual (what there is of it). You do need to allow ~6" clearance behind, as it mounts directly to the rear heat shield, but in most installations that shouldn't be a problem. I don't use one on my shop stove, the stove/ceiling fan combo does the job nicely. In a more complex space configuration, the blower kit might help a lot to move/diffuse the warm air. (thanks, C'mon, I really like it too). Rick

 

[fossil]

...What is that area under the stove door, is it another door for ash clean out or what?

The stove sits on a pedestal, not four legs. Integral with the construction of the pedestal is a removable ash drawer. Inside the firebox, one of the firebricks in the floor has a little steel loop cast into it, and this brick can be lifted up and the ashes pushed/swept into the pedestal below to cool. Then the drawer can be pulled out, emptied and replaced. I use it once in a while that way, but usually I just shovel out the ashes into an ash bucket the old fashioned way. BTW, the airwash flow in this little stove actually seems to be more effective at keeping the glass nice and clean better than that in my Lopi Liberty in the house, but that may be related also to the firebox size and the fact that we put a lot more burning hours on the Lopi than the Century. Rick

 

[Captain]

Good deal buddy thanks for the help. I'm really starting to lean towards buying this. If it doesn't work out for me, heck I bet even used I could turn around and sell it for more than what they want for it at the right time of year.

Does it seem to be pretty efficient?

 

[BrotherBart]

The Century is a good little stove and definately worth the money. But just so you don't come back here throwing rocks at us there are a couple of things you need to know before you buy it.

The company that made the stove as of last month pretty much doesn't exist anymore. They declared bankruptcy and all of their assets are being auctioned off. Further parts and manufacturer's support are pretty guaranteed to be non-existent. One of the plants that built them is being purchased by Stove Builders, Inc. (SBI) and since they have their own stove lines I kinda figure they were after the facilities and not the Century stove line. Maybe not. We shall see. The other plant that built them in Huntington, Indiana has its future still up in the air since a metal works manufacturer bid a pretty low ball bid for it and that bid does not appear to be under serious consideration. It could end up being a toaster plant for all we know. What I can guarantee you is that none of the buyers are or will assume support or warranty obligations of the original manufacturer, CFM America, Inc.

All that said you will get a lot more than three hundred bucks worth of use out of the stove. I just thought you oughta know what is happening with the company. And the chimney and hearth setup for it will work with a ton of other stoves out there if you decide to replace it in the future.

 

[fossil]

...Does it seem to be pretty efficient?

Well, as a retired Mechanical Engineer, I'm embarassed to report honestly that I've not instrumented the stove nor have I taken any quantitative data on it. I just light it up, toss in the fuel, and enjoy the warmth, and get on with life. It's an EPA stove, so I have to trust that some dedicated effort has been put into it by some pretty smart folks, and the fruits of their labor have been verified by independent other pretty smart folks. It does go into a pretty nice secondary burn mode of operation once it's up and running, and I can damp it down into a very nice slow burn while keeping the stovepipe temp up where it belongs, so I know it ain't just a steel box with a fire in it. Besides, I'm a two-stove softwood burner, so I just always count on needing about 25 cords of wood to get me to Christmas and then another 45 or so to get me to Spring. Efficiency has little to do with it. Rick

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Personally, I would still stick with the 13. We live in an old (1850) New England farmhouse with not a very open floor plan and a blower really helps us move the air around. There is a noticeable difference with and without it.

Very true!

I simulated a power outage this past winter and the house was 5* colder after 2 days without the blower and even cooler in the back rooms. My house has no insulation in the walls, 50 year old wood frame windows, and is leaky.

Side note: Its to bad Overstock is out of the Englander 30 because I was going to purchase another for my shop. Ratssssssss!

 

[Tfin]

I can't comment on the Century, but we couldn't be happier with our 13NC. We have a 960 sq ft ranch and have the stove in our living room. I don't have the blower, and have no need for it. This stove heats our entire house very well. I only went through 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 cords of harwood from the end of Nov through the end of this last April.

Its a great stove, easy to operate and very efficient IMO. If you go with the Englander, forget the 12 and go for the 13 and never look back.

 

[BrotherBart]

I'm an ultra-newbie in this subject...

We just bought the 50-SFP12L. I assume this is the same as the "12-FP" to which you're referring?

I'm fuzzy on what the "non-EPA" status means. I know it's not catalytic. Now that I've seen some of the posts in this thread, I'm worried about my decision!

My biggest concern is that I have white walls. I don't want this to result in staining of the walls. I also don't want my clothes to smell like smoke all the time. My installation is straight through the roof with good draft.

I live in East Texas (relatively mild winters). And I have a small home. Do I have anything to worry about with regard to smelling like smoke or staining my walls?

You don't have to worry about that anymore with a non-EPA stove than with an EPA stove. The smoke goes up the chimney. Just more of it goes up the chimney with stoves like the 12 and you won't get as much heat from your wood.

You won't stain your walls or smell like smoke the next time you go to The Blackeyed Pea Festival and Old Fiddler's Reunion. :coolgrin: You will use up your portion of those pretty East Texas pine woods though.