Englander Summers Heat Add on furnaces Questions ?

[Pallet Pete]

Model #: 50-SHW35


Today our gas furnace died this only matters because we have to run it in order to keep the pipes from freezing up. We heat with wood already so it is not a big issue to put a add on furnace in. I saw a thread where a gentleman installed an add on furnace from Englander which gave me some thought. I looked them up and they look nice however there is no EPA or secondary info on them. Do any of you have personal experience with them ? Are they EPA furnaces ? What is the capacity ? How long before you need to load again ? I am going to call Englander too but I want real world experience as well ! I hate the thought of a new heater AGAIN but we have wrapped our pipes insulated them and they still freeze on really cold nights. It is also a consideration of ours that we would like to finish the basement and that would be a good addition. Any thoughts here ? We have a 1500 sq ft home well insulated.

Thanks all.
Pete

 

[Pallet Pete]

Ok well just got off the phone with Englander and was told they are not EPA but they have an 8 hr burn one big box right there !

Pete

 

[sloeffle]

If you can afford it, I would get a EPA approved furnace. You will burn less wood, create less creosote and you will save money ( if you buy your firewood) and time ( if you make your own firewood ) over time.

A PSG Caddy or Energy King EPA approved furnace is in the 3K range the last time I priced them.

Scott

 

[raybonz]

Model #: 50-SHW35


Today our gas furnace died this only matters because we have to run it in order to keep the pipes from freezing up. We heat with wood already so it is not a big issue to put a add on furnace in. I saw a thread where a gentleman installed an add on furnace from Englander which gave me some thought. I looked them up and they look nice however there is no EPA or secondary info on them. Do any of you have personal experience with them ? Are they EPA furnaces ? What is the capacity ? How long before you need to load again ? I am going to call Englander too but I want real world experience as well ! I hate the thought of a new heater AGAIN but we have wrapped our pipes insulated them and they still freeze on really cold nights. It is also a consideration of ours that we would like to finish the basement and that would be a good addition. Any thoughts here ? We have a 1500 sq ft home well insulated.

Thanks all.
Pete

What's going on with the gas furnace Pete?

Ray

 

[Pallet Pete]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/any-hvac-techs-pic-heavy.102031/

Here you go Ray.

Pete

 

[raybonz]

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/any-hvac-techs-pic-heavy.102031/

Here you go Ray.

Pete

I found a part manual but no schematic.. I have nothing against wood furnaces but it makes it hard to travel if all you have is wood.. You mentioned a repairman looking at it has he been there yet?

Ray

 

[Pallet Pete]

I found a part manual but no schematic.. I have nothing against wood furnaces but it makes it hard to travel if all you have is wood.. You mentioned a repairman looking at it has he been there yet?

Ray

Not till Wednesday the 2nd they are booked all up till then. I know it makes it hard to travel but we are looking at $5000-$7000 for a new furnace after instillation and permits for my county depending on efficiency. This has made me think about an add on furnace because we use wood already the Englander had 5 stars out of 49 reviews on Home Depot web site. It looks like it would be half the cost to do a wood furnace over gas. Right now I think I would rather keep the stove we have but the furnace would save the pipes as well as let use finish the basement like we dream of someday. I do love our current stove ! I am going to wait for the Tech before we make any decisions though. One thing is for sure I wont be buying non EPA ever again. This is more of an exploring options thread because we have only been wood only in this house a few times a couple days each. I am positive the old furnace finally gave out.

Pete

 

[raybonz]

Not till Wednesday the 2nd they are booked all up till then. I know it makes it hard to travel but we are looking at $5000-$7000 for a new furnace after instillation and permits for my county depending on efficiency. This has made me think about an add on furnace because we use wood already the Englander had 5 stars out of 49 reviews on Home Depot web site. It looks like it would be half the cost to do a wood furnace over gas. Right now I think I would rather keep the stove we have but the furnace would save the pipes as well as let use finish the basement like we dream of someday. I do love our current stove ! I am going to wait for the Tech before we make any decisions though. One thing is for sure I wont be buying non EPA ever again. This is more of an exploring options thread because we have only been wood only in this house a few times a couple days each. I am positive the old furnace finally gave out.

Pete

I hear you Pete gotta consider your options. Your problem is probably electrical and should be repairable with cost the unknown. Keep us posted and good luck! My oil FHW is 25 years old and runs daily for DHW, well all except the circulators.. Had a clogged oil line from the tank to the burner pump that set me back a bit, mixing valves(self repair), boiler feedwater valve(self repair), a flow check valve(self repair) and a couple of tankless coils that clogged prior to installing whole house water filters(this was the cause of the tankless coils clogging) other than that troublefree lol..

Ray

 

[laynes69]

Pete, check into the Caddy line of furnaces, either the Mini or the Caddy. Both are EPA certified, they are well built furnaces. The Caddy may be a little big for your footage, but if your going to heat the basement and the floor above it might be okay. Just like a stove a little big, you could always build a smaller fire. It shouldn't be an issue to see 8-12 hour burns, especially with that square footage. Your heat load wouldn't be near ours. The furnace also picks up quite a bit of heat from the coal bed, that the secondary heat exchanger picks up. I upgraded from a simple furnace to a modern one (caddy) and like you I wouldn't go back to a non EPA unit.

There's some things you have to look at with a wood furnace. Your ductwork must be all metal, and there's strict clearances to follow. Some specify 18" from plenum to combustibles (floor joists), while others 6" for first 6' then 1" from there. If there's an outage, that ductwork can get hot. You've talked about your current central furnace giving you fits. There's 3 ways a woodfurnace can be installed in the U.S, Series, Parallel, and Stand alone.

Series is a simple install if the furnace manufacturer has it as an option. It uses your central furnace's blower to push through the plenum of the furnace into the base of the woodfurnace and out the top of the woodfurnace. It's a simple way to install, but your central furnace has to be up to par. If the central furnace malfunctioned, it could shut down and you will lose your blower until the furnace is reset (learned this the hard way). Also if you choose to fire the central furnace and not the woodfurnace, you would have to heat the mass of the woodfurnace before heat is put into the home. A bypass duct would prevent this.

A parallel install involves a blower on the woodfurnace to push the heat, instead of the central furnace. Usually they are placed side by side and backdraft dampers are installed so that neither unit backfeeds into each other.

Stand alone is just that, a unit that's by itself with it's own ducting. Usually insurance wants a backup from just wood.

Hopefully this gives you an idea of what a woodfurnace entitles. A basic furnace could run 1200+ and a modern clean burning unit 3000+. There's many manufacturers that have clean units like PSG, Kuuma, Blaze King and some others. If your serious about a woodfurnace, I would invest in a more modern unit over a basic. Good luck!

 

[Pallet Pete]

Pete, check into the Caddy line of furnaces, either the Mini or the Caddy. Both are EPA certified, they are well built furnaces. The Caddy may be a little big for your footage, but if your going to heat the basement and the floor above it might be okay. Just like a stove a little big, you could always build a smaller fire. It shouldn't be an issue to see 8-12 hour burns, especially with that square footage. Your heat load wouldn't be near ours. The furnace also picks up quite a bit of heat from the coal bed, that the secondary heat exchanger picks up. I upgraded from a simple furnace to a modern one (caddy) and like you I wouldn't go back to a non EPA unit.

There's some things you have to look at with a wood furnace. Your ductwork must be all metal, and there's strict clearances to follow. Some specify 18" from plenum to combustibles (floor joists), while others 6" for first 6' then 1" from there. If there's an outage, that ductwork can get hot. You've talked about your current central furnace giving you fits. There's 3 ways a woodfurnace can be installed in the U.S, Series, Parallel, and Stand alone.

Series is a simple install if the furnace manufacturer has it as an option. It uses your central furnace's blower to push through the plenum of the furnace into the base of the woodfurnace and out the top of the woodfurnace. It's a simple way to install, but your central furnace has to be up to par. If the central furnace malfunctioned, it could shut down and you will lose your blower until the furnace is reset (learned this the hard way). Also if you choose to fire the central furnace and not the woodfurnace, you would have to heat the mass of the woodfurnace before heat is put into the home. A bypass duct would prevent this.

A parallel install involves a blower on the woodfurnace to push the heat, instead of the central furnace. Usually they are placed side by side and backdraft dampers are installed so that neither unit backfeeds into each other.

Stand alone is just that, a unit that's by itself with it's own ducting. Usually insurance wants a backup from just wood.

Hopefully this gives you an idea of what a woodfurnace entitles. A basic furnace could run 1200+ and a modern clean burning unit 3000+. There's many manufacturers that have clean units like PSG, Kuuma, Blaze King and some others. If your serious about a woodfurnace, I would invest in a more modern unit over a basic. Good luck!

Thanks laynes69 you have given us a lot to think about right now I appreciate that a lot ! I am trying a small electric room heater in the basement tonight to keep the lines un-frozen. if it works then we will be fine till winter is over if not then its time for options. I did not realize BK made furnaces and the Kuma gasifiers look SWEET ! I wont lie not using gas really does not hurt my feelings so hopefully we can figure this out. The upstairs is a nice 75 the basement so far is 47F.

Thanks again
Pete

 

[laynes69]

I wouldn't mind the heat of a woodstove, but our house is currently 76 downstairs, the upstairs is 75 it's 22 degrees out and our basement which has no heat ducts or registers is in the mid 60's from the heat of the woodfurnace. That's where I enjoy having a woodfurnace. That and having a modern furnace, we use less wood than our neighbors heating part of their house with a non EPA stove.

 

[raybonz]

Pete have you considered using electric heat tape to keep your pipes from freezing? It would be cheaper to run heat tapes than your furnace even if you do repair or replace it.. Just a thought..

Ray

 

[Pallet Pete]

Pete have you considered using electric heat tape to keep your pipes from freezing? It would be cheaper to run heat tapes than your furnace even if you do repair or replace it.. Just a thought..

Ray

Actually no I had not I forgot that even existed ! Thanks again Ray !

Pete

 

[raybonz]

Actually no I had not I forgot that even existed ! Thanks again Ray !

Pete

Your welcome Pete! I don't recall if you can insulate heat tape though.. Inexpensive to keep pipes from freezing this way if it works for you..
(broken link removed to http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Search?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=electric+heat+tape&storeId=10051)
http://www.lowes.com/Building-Supplies/Roofing-Gutters/Pipe-Roof-Heat-Cables/_/N-1z0zh61/pl
http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...vpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_10qavphvjy_b

Ray

 

[raybonz]

Pete check this stuff out:
(broken link removed)

http://www.amazon.com/Easy-Heat-2102-Freeze-Cable/dp/B002KT5ZPO
You custom cut to length then add a plug.. Cool product and self regulating..

Ray

 

[Pallet Pete]

Pete check this stuff out:
(broken link removed)

http://www.amazon.com/Easy-Heat-2102-Freeze-Cable/dp/B002KT5ZPO
You custom cut to length then add a plug.. Cool product and self regulating..

Ray

That is sweet right there ! I just got lost in all the info lol.

Pete

 

[raybonz]

That is sweet right there ! I just got lost in all the info lol.

Pete

Haha I remember using something like that around 20 years ago.. Just add to pipe, cut, add plug and end cap.. Great stuff and low cost to operate and it self regulates down to -60F ..

 

[KTLM]

I think the englander furnace will make too much heat for a 1500 sq. ft. house. Just my opinion.