England's 17 VL Outside combustion air ?

[hardwaregrrl]

Hey all....I just got this stove installed last night and am like a kid in a candy store waiting for winter. But I think I screwed up..... I couldn't wait, and lit a small break in fire last night. It smoked from the fresh air outlet. I was under the impression that it wasn't necessary to hook up unless in a mobile or man'd home. Fire went out quickly and I felt like a dumb*&... So is anyone using this guy without the outside air hook up? Did it just smoke a bit because of a cold chimney?

Chimney is also on the short side. I didn't want to go through the roof so I went through a wall. It's at the end of a ranch house with wide eaves, 3'. So currently it is 3' high in the house, then a 6' horizontal run through the wall and past the eave, then 7' in the air. Tech support says it should be sufficient. Anyone have experience with a short stack on the 17VL?

Thanks all! I'll keep the noob questions coming...I'm full of them!

 

[mellow]

Hard to get a good draft when it is still this warm out, the smoke will backfill and find anyway out it can, and the OAK inlet is the perfect place. Wait for colder weather and try again, of course that might not be till December in Atlanta.

 

[hardwaregrrl]

Hard to get a good draft when it is still this warm out, the smoke will backfill and find anyway out it can, and the OAK inlet is the perfect place. Wait for colder weather and try again, of course that might not be till December in Atlanta.

Ha! Good point and info....again....I don't know what the hell I'm doing!

 

[Bioburner]

Could try and use a large propane fired torch to help start a draft.

 

[MaintenanceMan]

I have burned mine for three winters without an OAK hooked up and no problems. My chimney is right at the 15" minimum and straight out through the roof. With a short chimney and most likely higher temperatures I'd say you just experience an extremely bad to non-existent draft. A 10" tall chimney with two 90's and 6' horizontal run sure doesn't sound sufficient honestly IMO. Cooler temps and or a taller chimney will probably be all you need. Enjoy that stove. It's a great little heater!

 

[hardwaregrrl]

Yeah, I'm not thrilled about the 6' run but I didn't really have many options....I couldn't go through the roof for a number of reasons. If I were going to add height I'd be worried about the weight of the chimney...that wall band isn't a heavyweight holding guy. Since I'm not against a wall the chimney is suspended out 3'. Any advice on how to secure it. And if I were to add height.....would 2' or 3' be enough to help? I realize that's a hard one to answer....

 

[MaintenanceMan]

Any additional height would help. Is it possible for you to post picks of the outside and how it's supported?

 

[spirilis]

Open a nearby window or door? That might help the chimney draft correctly... in addition to a propane torch or at least lighting some newspaper to help warm the flue.

As for how far to extend the chimney, consult the owner's manual and abide by the recommended minimum flue height. It's going to require a lot more than 6ft. Take this matter seriously.

 

[hardwaregrrl]

Thinking about making a bracket that goes from the bottom of the tee up to the fascia board.


You can see my 10' mark on the roof. The chimney is 30" higher.



Money is a bit tight right now, and I'm not even sure how much of the house it will heat. I mainly wanted it for heating the sunroom as it has no existing vents. I'm saving my pennies right now for the insulated tee.....240 bucks! But anything I can do prior to winter I will do if I can swing it. Thanks for your help!

 

[billb3]

right angles and horizontal runs are impediments to draft
cooler air inside the house than outside doesn't help either.

you probably have to keep the door open on the stove and the room to get a good fire going to where the smoke volume deceases and you get those flue pipes hot enough to get a good draft going.

I had a setup like that years ago in a small barn and it was always a pain in the butt to get going from a cold start.

 

[hardwaregrrl]

right angles and horizontal runs are impediments to draft
cooler air inside the house than outside doesn't help either.

you probably have to keep the door open on the stove and the room to get a good fire going to where the smoke volume deceases and you get those flue pipes hot enough to get a good draft going.

I had a setup like that years ago in a small barn and it was always a pain in the butt to get going from a cold start.

Thanks Bill....it's good to know it's possible. I'm hoping to figure out a solution for the potential problems before winter. If I have no other choice but to go through the roof, I can at least have a few months to make it happen.

 

[MaintenanceMan]

Thanks Bill....it's good to know it's possible. I'm hoping to figure out a solution for the potential problems before winter. If I have no other choice but to go through the roof, I can at least have a few months to make it happen.

A proper through the roof install would be lightyears better than what you have now. I'd concentrate on making that happen if at all possible. It would support the weight of the chimney, be a straighter run with better draft, and eliminate that through the window situation. With a 17 your going to be doing cold starts more often, most likely. Improving your chimney and draft will help a lot in that regard.

 

[billb3]

Ha! That stove/setup was prone to back puffs.
It took real dry kindling to get going and it had to be kept rip roaring hot in stormy weather or any time a good gust came it would back puff.
Really temperamental. Tough setup. The kind of set up where people easily and understandably get the impression wood stoves are stinky messes .

 

[kennyp2339]

Love the stove, but that setup is going to fight you till the day its taken down.
Can I ask why you cant go strait through the roof? Looks like this is a good candidate for a cathedral ceiling support box (there a little longer than a regular ceiling support box) then 3 lengths of class a pipe with roof support bracket. Its actually a very simple install, plus it will be a little stronger and you will still maintain you 10-3-2 chimney rules.
You just need the duravent cathedral ceiling kit.

 

[hardwaregrrl]

I'm glad I found you guys....looking at the roof now and succumbing. I have the sure temp by Selkirk. I don't believe it will mate with the dura vent but I was looking at the cathedral box. Looks like another run of 36" pipe will be all I need and the box and flashing. Couple hundred bucks for safety and proper operation. Worth it.

 

[kennyp2339]

I'm assuming that you have a ceiling in your stove room, what you want to do is using a string / plumb bob find the center of the hole (stove outlet) mark that on the ceiling then measure for your support box, measure the distance between the ceiling and your roof on the high side, this will tell you what size box (length) you will need.

 

[hardwaregrrl]

My head is spinning....reading up on ceiling boxes off the Selkirk site. Very confusing as to which one would work best for me. I still have to convince the better half that this is the only way....that's much more difficult than the actual labor of installation.

So before I destroy anything as the ceiling is wood, advice on ceiling install/boxes...or pics or your install?

 

[kennyp2339]

I have a different setup than you, my attic area on my first setup had 5 vertical space so I used a through the ceiling kit, you can search this forum for cathedral install thread.
Later tonight when I get home from work I'll look up directions / photos to help you

 

[billb3]

How complicated is that ceiling ?
The porch looks like an addition .

 

[hardwaregrrl]

it is a crappy addition....attic space up there is limited so I can't really access it from the attic to get a look Ceiling is just plywood. I'm not entirely sure about how to even begin. Been searching the forum and I'm a little behind in the wood stove common sense department. I've run plumbing vents through roofs, but not anything this large.. it would be a 6' run to the ceiling, not sure what the height from ceiling to roof is, no way to measure until I've cut a hole.

 

[hardwaregrrl]

Love the stove, but that setup is going to fight you till the day its taken down.
Can I ask why you cant go strait through the roof? Looks like this is a good candidate for a cathedral ceiling support box (there a little longer than a regular ceiling support box) then 3 lengths of class a pipe with roof support bracket. Its actually a very simple install, plus it will be a little stronger and you will still maintain you 10-3-2 chimney rules.
You just need the duravent cathedral ceiling kit.

So Kenny, are you recommending a CCS because I could cut the angle of the roof on the box and butt it all the way up to the roof decking?

 

[kennyp2339]

No im recommending it because judging from the picture of your house on the outside it doesn't look like you will have enough room to install a conventional ceiling support box between the existing ceiling line and the slope of the roof, but now that Im thinking about it with relation to the install I did at my place both can work.
It will be tougher to nail the regular support box into the ceiling from the roof, but it can be done. If I remember correctly the outside diameter of your class A pipe is around 9" so you will need to cut a hole of 11" in your roof (2" of space required around the pipe) that 11" hole maybe enough room to hammer the box in securely.
Its not a horrible job to do, it will just take a little thinking and some elbow grease.

 

[kennyp2339]

Read through this link, I know this isn't your brand, and I'm not "pushing" any specific brand but this is the idea of what you want to accomplish.

https://www.fornobravo.com/PDF/duratech.pdf

 

[hardwaregrrl]

Will do thanks! I could always screw it in if space is limited.

 

[hardwaregrrl]

Ok, I just bought a kit...seemed a bit easier. I'm running Sure Temp pipe so I ordered this guy: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009STHVG?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00