ENVI electric wall mount plug in heaters...

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,963
Long Island NY
Can't you put the $800 (already a quarter of a new system, apparently) towards a new furnace, and have the rest on a payment plan to your utility with payments added to your utility bill? That's a way you can do it in Knoxville TN.

The new furnace will be more efficient as long as the resistive heat doesn't kick in, saving you money.

Once resistive heat kicks in it's as efficient as the space heaters (same mode of heating) IF your ducts are insulated properly and don't leak.

So the seal and insulate your ducts and (ducts in your) attic. Seal your walls. That does not cost much.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
90,626
South Puget Sound, WA
I am going to guess that this is a 10-12 kW furnace in this sized mobile. What is the make and model of the electric furnace?

Has anyone investigated under the mobile to see if the plenum and ductwork is still intact and well insulated? Rodents love to tear into the insulation of these systems and the ducts that run across the underbelly of a mobile. They can make a real mess of it. If the ductwork insulation is gone or connections are leaky then that would definitely make the output anemic and the electric bills high.
 

stoveliker

Minister of Fire
Nov 17, 2019
1,963
Long Island NY
I am going to guess that this is a 10-12 kW furnace in this sized mobile. What is the make and model of the electric furnace?

Has anyone investigated under the mobile to see if the plenum and ductwork is still intact and well insulated? Rodents love to tear into the insulation of these systems and the ducts that run across the underbelly of a mobile. They can make a real mess of it. If the ductwork insulation is gone or connections are leaky then that would definitely make the output anemic and the electric bills high.

Hm, yes, not the attic but below the floor.
 

semipro

Minister of Fire
Jan 12, 2009
4,079
SW Virginia
I think the OP should consider installing 1 or 2 ductless mini-split heat pumps.
The cost is more upfront but they will pay for themselves very quickly.
Money spent on replacing an electric furnace would be a waste in comparison.
Money spent on space heaters will be a total waste for area heating especially after the plumbing is damaged due to freezing.
 

Don2222

Minister of Fire
Feb 1, 2010
8,825
Salem NH
Electric resistance heat is basically 100% efficient. Its sounds like the central unit you have now and what you are looking at buying are both electrical resistance units. You will spend a fair amount of money on the ENVI heaters and gain nothing when compared to running your central unit. You can achieve the same or better results with your current system by lowering the thermostat set temp since the amount of heat you're proposing won't likely warm your house to acceptable temps. Your money is better spent using your existing unit and sealing air leaks and insulating. Check this out to get a better idea of what many of us here are talking about.

If you must use plug-in electric heaters consider you should consider using an infrared unit and moving it around to wherever it is needed, pointed at a human. We do this in our bathroom in winter. We only use them when we are nearby, usually while standing in front of our sink. This is much like using your electric blanket. Heat the person, not the room.

Edit: 500 watts of resistance heat is 1706 BTU
According to the info at the link I shared above you need about 40,500 BTU total for your house based on your climate and average parameters. In other words, you'd need about 24 of the ENVI units to put out that much heat.

View attachment 280604
Good info there!
Sounds like a 40K BTU wood pellet stove could work very well there!!
I heat my entire house with one up here in NH and it is warm and cozy! :)
 

Kahud48

New Member
Jul 25, 2021
25
Bowling Green, KY,
Can't you put the $800 (already a quarter of a new system, apparently) towards a new furnace, and have the rest on a payment plan to your utility with payments added to your utility bill? That's a way you can do it in Knoxville TN.

The new furnace will be more efficient as long as the resistive heat doesn't kick in, saving you money.

Once resistive heat kicks in it's as efficient as the space heaters (same mode of heating) IF your ducts are insulated properly and don't leak.

So the seal and insulate your ducts and (ducts in your) attic. Seal your walls. That does not cost much.
I wish I could, the companies here do not set up on a payment plan (at least that was what the two I called told me), must be paid for upfront. Hiller wanted $7000 to install and the other one I call said could do for $2500. So you tell me if I should even trust either one of them.

I am pretty much done with the worry this is causing me, God will provide how ever way this goes, that I CAN trust in (can't say the same anymore for most the people out there I have come across here of late)
 

fbelec

Minister of Fire
Nov 23, 2005
3,122
Massachusetts
a little old but.... when we set up electric heat in someone house the formula is for 3 inch insulated walls square footage times 10. if you have 6 inch walls it is square footage times 7. regardless of your heater it is what it is. if a room takes 1000 watts to heat and it is cycling off and on every half hour but instead you run 500 watts the 500 watt heater will run 24/7 it will cost the same as the 1000 watt cycling on and off every half hour. i haven't looked up those heaters that you want to run but if they are like a few customers of mine have they are useless. they bought one because it said it would heat the apartment and when it didn't do it the bought another one and that didn't work and at the same time because they were running so much the bill was sky high. that's when they called me in to fix what they had.

i have used the oil filled radiator here and they are a nice unit. even on it's highest setting it will not even light up paper sitting on top of it but it will heat a normal sized room without a problem. they also go with a 600 watt setting which is low a 900 watt setting that is med and a 1500 watt setting which is high. on top of the thermostat that is built in. 4 of those might just squeak by on a cold night but if your trying to take out the chill at 50 degrees you can adjust the wattage down and not have a problem. the nice thing about these heaters is the most sound you here it the thermostat clicking on and off. like i say 4 on 900 watt setting sound do a mobile home because of the lower ceiling. and if it gets cold use 1500 watt setting. in the mobile homes i've been in the back bedroom should be on a separate circuit the livingroom should be separate both 15 amps (1800 watts) and the diningroom should be a separate 20 amp (2400watt) and the kitchen should have two 20 amp circuits on the counters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kahud48

Kahud48

New Member
Jul 25, 2021
25
Bowling Green, KY,
a little old but.... when we set up electric heat in someone house the formula is for 3 inch insulated walls square footage times 10. if you have 6 inch walls it is square footage times 7. regardless of your heater it is what it is. if a room takes 1000 watts to heat and it is cycling off and on every half hour but instead you run 500 watts the 500 watt heater will run 24/7 it will cost the same as the 1000 watt cycling on and off every half hour. i haven't looked up those heaters that you want to run but if they are like a few customers of mine have they are useless. they bought one because it said it would heat the apartment and when it didn't do it the bought another one and that didn't work and at the same time because they were running so much the bill was sky high. that's when they called me in to fix what they had.

i have used the oil filled radiator here and they are a nice unit. even on it's highest setting it will not even light up paper sitting on top of it but it will heat a normal sized room without a problem. they also go with a 600 watt setting which is low a 900 watt setting that is med and a 1500 watt setting which is high. on top of the thermostat that is built in. 4 of those might just squeak by on a cold night but if your trying to take out the chill at 50 degrees you can adjust the wattage down and not have a problem. the nice thing about these heaters is the most sound you here it the thermostat clicking on and off. like i say 4 on 900 watt setting sound do a mobile home because of the lower ceiling. and if it gets cold use 1500 watt setting. in the mobile homes i've been in the back bedroom should be on a separate circuit the livingroom should be separate both 15 amps (1800 watts) and the diningroom should be a separate 20 amp (2400watt) and the kitchen should have two 20 amp circuits on the counters.
Thank you fbelec, think I will use these two I already bought, 1 in each bedroom, and 1 oil space heater in kitchen and 1 space oil heater in LR. For my 900 sq ft home, that should work. I can even close off a room or two if need be :)
 

blades

Minister of Fire
Nov 23, 2008
3,679
WI, Leroy
real problem when not using mobile home ducted furnace is freezing waterlines, as they are run next to the ducting. Make every effort to insure that your belly fabric and insulation under the home is completely intact. if it isn't you will be replacing water lines and depending on your place the sub floor as well. A lot of them used chip board(osb) or particle board for the sub flooring- if it gets wet it turns to mush - a real mess to replace and expensive to boot. I have personal experience with this. You might want to wrap the water lines with the heat tapes to be on the safe side. Also a pia. don't need to run all the time but if its going to be below freezing then turn them on- good insurance. In my 7 year tenure with a 80's vintage mobile home I ran into just about every problem possible. expensive education thanks to a divorce.( also an expensive education )
 

zrock

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2017
1,155
bc
Electric heaters should be on their own dedicated circuit they pull a lot of power and can easily heat up the plugs and wire even those infrared pull a lot of power feel your plugs at the end of the day and your cords. Seen way to many home fires due to electric plug in heaters.. You will use up your credit the first month trying to run that many electric heaters... You would be better off getting a loan and putting in a new furnace. With what you save the first year you would be able to pay out the loan... Look around for company's that sell manufactured homes as quite often people order them with a furnace and then have the furnace pulled and install a heat pump. Then usually sell the furnace for 1/4 the cost of new.. I did this for one of the older homes i reno'd and it cost me 2 hours labor for the guy to install the stack and hook up the gas. All done for under $1000. I talked to the people and they keep their house warm and pay about $50 a month in heat. Or you could buy a good used pellet stove and install it yourself and just pay for the inspection. Thats what i did and my heating is cheap and warmer than any furnace i would install...
 

Kahud48

New Member
Jul 25, 2021
25
Bowling Green, KY,
I have two Dilonghi heaters in my bird loft and I use them in winter when it gets real cold and I keep the temperature about 60 degrees just to make it comfortable and I keep the two of them on just at night time and it raises my electric bill about 100 dollars more.. They are nice heaters no blowing noise or fumes and they are clean burning as well all contained..They would be good for you..clancey
Agreed, am looking to add a couple of them to go along with my two Envi wall heaters, should do good for us with two small rooms closed off
 

Kahud48

New Member
Jul 25, 2021
25
Bowling Green, KY,
Have been using my two envi heaters and so far, 29 degree hard freeze night, these two held my indoor temp in the mid 60's on low.
Just purchased 2 more and will be placing all 4 approx. 12 to 15 ft. apart so I can keep all open and circulating nicely throughout. Have 3 up now and another below freezing night, it stayed around 70 on low. All are on separate breakers and so far they are doing a much better job than the old 220 furnace did!
Only 1500 watts going with these 3 set up and they are on low, do not click on all at same time either.
We mounted each of them onto 2'x4' 1/2" cabinet grade plywood, much easier to do than in a wall, and this way they are portable to set anywhere needed in my house. Just updating the using of these and just how good they are working for me.
My mobile home must be well insulated, thank the good Lord above!
 

Kahud48

New Member
Jul 25, 2021
25
Bowling Green, KY,
Agreed, am looking to add a couple of them to go along with my two Envi wall heaters, should do good for us with two small rooms closed off
envi heaters are not 1500 watts, don't run as much electric and so far with the running of only two for over a week on low, has kept us in the mid to upper 60's, I have a mobile home, not much to heat up and they are doing to job great!
 

zrock

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2017
1,155
bc
trying to figure out how you have 4 of these all on separate breakers. Most modular homes the main home is all on about 4 different breakers the whole living room would have been one and most of the hall ways, bedrooms usually on one breaker, etc. anything around 10 years and newer would have more breakers for the main home to separate things out and anything older you more than likely would have to run a new dedicated breaker to run a heater
 

fbelec

Minister of Fire
Nov 23, 2005
3,122
Massachusetts
it's possible especially if they are on low. we have a mobile home park here in town and they have to put up with the same electrical codes as a regular home. if any of those rooms are redone then they have to be brought up to code. the ones around here have a minimum of 60 amp mains. 1 circuit for the oil burner, 1 for bedroom and 1 for livingroom and second bedroom, 2 circuits for kitchen counters, 1 for bath outlet, 1 for clothes washer, 1 for lights and fridge. most here have 16 circuit panels and are full.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kahud48

Kahud48

New Member
Jul 25, 2021
25
Bowling Green, KY,
it's possible especially if they are on low. we have a mobile home park here in town and they have to put up with the same electrical codes as a regular home. if any of those rooms are redone then they have to be brought up to code. the ones around here have a minimum of 60 amp mains. 1 circuit for the oil burner, 1 for bedroom and 1 for livingroom and second bedroom, 2 circuits for kitchen counters, 1 for bath outlet, 1 for clothes washer, 1 for lights and fridge. most here have 16 circuit panels and are full.
Yes and I have them spaced out. One in main hall, one in LR, one on breaker sidewall in kitchen (separate from the rest of the kitchen even though it sets in there) and one in hubby's room, decided to to put in that small hall there when it works just fine going ahead and setting it in his room. Will try and send a pic of how I have done them so they are basically portable.
I was going to put that one in the small hall and plug into the clothes washer (no longer have) but didn't have to
 

Kahud48

New Member
Jul 25, 2021
25
Bowling Green, KY,
Here are the pics so you can see how I have them spaced out, and my bed is in the LR due to health issues. We also sleep under electric blankets if and when needed.

1st one in main hall, taking pic standing just inside bathroom, end BR closed off, middle BR there stays open, is my office and craft room
(We try and keep them set here but have turned them to what we call 3:00)
(Was told by company that no matter, low or high, they still only pull around 500 watts each)
2nd one there at the end of the hall in the LR
3rd pic you can see the one in the LR and the one across there just in the kitchen, separate outside wall plug from kitchen breakers.
4th one you can look back through the small/short hall there and see it in hubby's BR

Just checked thermostats and the one in the main hall reads 70 degrees and the big one (looks like a huge wall clock, lol) on the wall center in LR reads 70,
it is right now 52 degrees outside

I have them all mounted onto 2'x4'cabinet grade plywood boards with the grey inset plastic wall inserts screwed onto the sticking out screws at the back of the boards, covered over with cotton balls and taped over that to protect the wall and anything from being scratched.
I think I did a pretty good job coming up with a way to make these portable, short of cutting off the screws in the back
(didn't want to do that)

P1010018 (1).JPG P1010019 (1).JPG P1010020 (3).JPG P1010021 (3).JPG
 
Last edited:

fbelec

Minister of Fire
Nov 23, 2005
3,122
Massachusetts
they look good. did a nice job of placement also. be aware that if you said you lived in a northern state i say buy a oil filled radiator for the cold days but not sure how cold it gets where you are. i believe you said you have 4 if so thats only 2000 watts when it gets cold i think you'll need another 1000 watts. not sure how much they cost but that is two more. sounds expensive to buy. up here in mass we put in 500 watt heaters just for a average size bathroom. anyway nice job;)
 

zrock

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2017
1,155
bc
I will guarantee the wiring is getting hot with those things plugged in... I used to install and operate a park and had dealt with this on numerous occasions...

Have you contacted a local company that setup or sells modular homes? A lot of times people will have heat pumps installed but when they order the unit it still comes with a furnace. A lot of times the company's will sell these for next to nothing we used to pay about $900 shipped to our door in Canada and we live way up north so 1/2 of that was shipping. That was for a furnace around 80-90% efficiency. Usually cost us about $500 for a gas fitter to come in and install the unit... What the customers saved in heating costs in 1 year paid for everything.. If you own the place you can take a loan out against your home and get things done right...
 

fbelec

Minister of Fire
Nov 23, 2005
3,122
Massachusetts
i wish the gas fitters were that cheap here. minimum i seen charged for any gas run is $1200.00. wiring for 500 watts should be cool but if the outlet is wired using the holes on the back of it instead of the screws on the side they should be changed. that can cause heat and failure.
 

zrock

Minister of Fire
Dec 2, 2017
1,155
bc
their would be no gass run all they have to do is hook up the existing stub in the floor
 

Kahud48

New Member
Jul 25, 2021
25
Bowling Green, KY,
they look good. did a nice job of placement also. be aware that if you said you lived in a northern state i say buy a oil filled radiator for the cold days but not sure how cold it gets where you are. i believe you said you have 4 if so thats only 2000 watts when it gets cold i think you'll need another 1000 watts. not sure how much they cost but that is two more. sounds expensive to buy. up here in mass we put in 500 watt heaters just for a average size bathroom. anyway nice job;)
Thank You
I live in South Central KY.
We hoover in the 30's for the most part and maybe one week in the Winter season we will hit the 20's/upper teens, but for the most part, we are 30's.
We have thought about that too and have planned on closing off the second bedroom off from the main hall (my office) if we need too and that would free up a few square feet to extend on down the hall into the LR.