Fireplace Guy, with the stove set to Regular pellets the agitator turns in lock step with the auger. Are you burning the M55?
Enviro M55 burn questions
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CONCORDE
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No, but I have installed three and work on Enviro stoves a fair bit.
Here are details from a memo I had received from Sherwood on stirrer (agitator) operation. If I can figure out how to to do it, I have a chart with more info on this topic.
Just want to ensure we are on the same page. The agitator rotates in small "pulses" rather than rotating in full revolutions. Only revolves continuosly as per schedule below.
If you tinkered with the slider/damper prior to making adjustments on the control board, you might need to start at the start to set it all up right. A mag would definitely help you.
If you go to the Enviro website, you can find a tech manual for this stove towards the bottom of the HELP page.
Stirrer Operation Description
Program #1 (premium pellets)
- Startup, start stirrer at 5min then pulse with auger till run mode starts.
- Run Mode, stirrer on for 1min off for 30min
- Shutdown, stir for 5min
Program #2 (regular pellets)
- Startup, start stirrer at 5min then pulse with auger till run mode starts.
- Run Mode, stirrer pulses same as the auger.
- Shutdown, stir for 5min
Program #3 (multi fuel)
- Startup, start stirrer at 5min then pulse with auger till run mode starts.
- Run Mode, stirrer pulses same as the auger.
- Every 30min drop feed to low and run stirrer continuously for 1min
- Shutdown, stir for 5min
Here are details from a memo I had received from Sherwood on stirrer (agitator) operation. If I can figure out how to to do it, I have a chart with more info on this topic.
Just want to ensure we are on the same page. The agitator rotates in small "pulses" rather than rotating in full revolutions. Only revolves continuosly as per schedule below.
If you tinkered with the slider/damper prior to making adjustments on the control board, you might need to start at the start to set it all up right. A mag would definitely help you.
If you go to the Enviro website, you can find a tech manual for this stove towards the bottom of the HELP page.
Stirrer Operation Description
Program #1 (premium pellets)
- Startup, start stirrer at 5min then pulse with auger till run mode starts.
- Run Mode, stirrer on for 1min off for 30min
- Shutdown, stir for 5min
Program #2 (regular pellets)
- Startup, start stirrer at 5min then pulse with auger till run mode starts.
- Run Mode, stirrer pulses same as the auger.
- Shutdown, stir for 5min
Program #3 (multi fuel)
- Startup, start stirrer at 5min then pulse with auger till run mode starts.
- Run Mode, stirrer pulses same as the auger.
- Every 30min drop feed to low and run stirrer continuously for 1min
- Shutdown, stir for 5min
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
fireplaceguy,
Anything you have as far as charts. Please post them for the group. Its much needed knowledge. If you need tips or assistance send me a PM.
Anything you have as far as charts. Please post them for the group. Its much needed knowledge. If you need tips or assistance send me a PM.
Fireplace Guy said:
Got my M55 working right. I had to shut it down, unplug it again, waited a while and then reset it to Program#2 for regular pellets and to HI/LO.. Now agitator turns with auger simultaneously.
I'll chalk it up to operator error. It's hard to see that fuel light from an angle, I had to get right on it to make out the color.
Threerun said:
They say the eyes are the first thing to go :bug: , glad you got it working. Nice looking install on other thread.
Yup- operator error. Even if the agitator turned every 30 minutes (on premium setting) it wouldn't have mattered. I can't wait to give this unit a long term test though, at temps -20 no less.
The basement has been a work in process. I may build a stone feature behind the stove to make a hearth, but that would be down the road. The M55 is really a good looking stove. It's not quite as classic as a Dutchwest wood burner, but for a pellet stove I think it looks a bit nicer than the normal freestanding jobbies. I guess the wife was right, lol...
I'm thankful that my propane usage has been negated- that was the point of the whole endeavor- Get off the juice. With all the beetle kill pine out here, and Eureka having a plant 70 miles away, it just makes good sense to use natural resources to heat as much as possible.
The basement has been a work in process. I may build a stone feature behind the stove to make a hearth, but that would be down the road. The M55 is really a good looking stove. It's not quite as classic as a Dutchwest wood burner, but for a pellet stove I think it looks a bit nicer than the normal freestanding jobbies. I guess the wife was right, lol...
I'm thankful that my propane usage has been negated- that was the point of the whole endeavor- Get off the juice. With all the beetle kill pine out here, and Eureka having a plant 70 miles away, it just makes good sense to use natural resources to heat as much as possible.
flynfrfun
Minister of Fire
I've burned 3 different pellets...Blazers, Eureka and Cleanburn. The stove does just fine on premium mode with all 3. Why do you have yours in regular mode? I just can't see this stove having problems with even the worst quality wood pellets using premium mode. Unless you've got some REALLY crappy pellets I would think premium mode would work on about 99% of the wood pellets available today. Besides, it is SO quiet on premium mode. And it's cool to hear the agitator come one every 30min and see all the sparks go flying. Makes for a nice show
Flynfrfun
flynfrfun
Minister of Fire
Gotcha! Tinkering is ALWAYS fun. I just ordered a magnehelic gauge for mine. I did my own install and I had to slide the damper all the way closed so it wouldn't get broken off while I was moving the stove into the house. So, I have no idea of what it was set at from the factory. It will be interesting to see how the stove performs when I get it adjusted correctly. I think I'm close now (eyeballing the flame), but in the back of my mind I keep wondering if I'm in the ballpark or not. At least now I will know for sure.
Flynfrfun
Flynfrfun
flynfrfun
Minister of Fire
Fireplace Guy said:
Fireplaceguy,
Do you know if the auger feed times are the same for all 3 programs? Thanks for the info you have passed on. The more we know the better.
So far I like everything about this stove except I wish they would have allowed us to increase the convection blower manually. It just doesn't seem to put out much air at heat level 3 where my stove is at most of the time. Yes, the air is HOT, but I think it would be more efficient with more air coming out. I realize they are trying to keep this stove quiet, but even on heat level 5 it doesn't make much noise and puts out a lot more air. If I could get the amount of air coming out at heat level 5 to come out at heat level 3 it would be great.
Flynfrfun
Washusett - How long does a bag of pellets last with those settings? I've never run my M55 above heat #3, and considering how fast it burns them at #3, I'm scared to try #4!
Running on high/low with thermostat set at 70, heating 2400 s.f. 1.5-2 bags per day.
I have run the stove in manual on heat 3 and get similar results, heat 4 moves more air
and the thermostat helps. When the temps are high 20's low 30' I run on heat 3.
I have run the stove in manual on heat 3 and get similar results, heat 4 moves more air
and the thermostat helps. When the temps are high 20's low 30' I run on heat 3.
flynfrfun
Minister of Fire
I've been doing the same thing... running it at higher heat levels and then turning down the feed trim to 1 or 2. This gets the higher convection blower speeds and cuts down on pellet usage. I wish Enviro would have given us a table showing the auger on/off times for each heat level and feed trim setting. I'm wondering if heat level 3, feed trim 5 is just a step below heat level 4, feed trim 1 on the amount of pellets it dispenses? If so, then its much more beneficial to go up a heat level to get the higher convection blower speed and then lower the feed trim. My auger is so quiet that I can't hear it cycle on/off otherwise I would be able to complile this info myself.
Have you guys noticed that upon startup, it will slowly ramp up the convection blower a little at a time as it warms up until it is at it's full programmed speed for your selected heat setting?
Flynfrfun
Have you guys noticed that upon startup, it will slowly ramp up the convection blower a little at a time as it warms up until it is at it's full programmed speed for your selected heat setting?
Flynfrfun
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
flynfrfun said:
By the sounds of it "Fireplace Guy" just might have the info for you. If he can figure out how to post the chart.
Anyway, You should correct with your question. I am sure there feedrates are similar to the Omega's is. The feedrate on 3-5 is about 5% lower than feedrate 4-1 setting but you would have more combustion air with the higher setting. You will also have a higher convection speed on heat setting 4 as well. Just wish I could post some numbers for you!
CONCORDE
New Member
According to my notes, ON time for the Auger is always three seconds. What changes is the OFF time.
When running on all three modes, auger is OFF for 15 seconds when running at heat level 1.
As above, auger is OFF for 8 seconds when running at heat level 2.
When running in PREMIUM and REGULAR modes, auger is OFF for 4 seconds when running at heat level 3.
If running on MULTIFUEL, auger is OFF for 5 seconds (poorer fuel requires more time to burn before adding fresh fuel).
When running in PREMIUM and REGULAR modes, auger is OFF for 2.5 seconds when running at heat level 4.
If running on MULTIFUEL, auger is OFF for 3.5 seconds.
When running in PREMIUM and REGULAR modes, auger is OFF for 1.5 seconds when running at heat level 5.
If running on MULTIFUEL, auger is OFF for 2.5 seconds.
As for controlling speeds on the circulation fan, I do agree with some of the points raised here. Would be nice to have a little more manual adjustment.
Pellet stoves get a nasty rap for being loud (and some of them could raise the dead!). They designed this stove to be much quieter than most. Aside from noise, I am thinking they might also be concerned about folks running fan on high while stove is at the low heat level settings. I could be wrong, but would this not cause the heat exchanger to cool? Am thinking if conditions were right, this might lead to nasty accumulations of creosote.
Will ask my contacts about this again. At one time, they were talking about a turbo-fan setting for the higher heat levels.
In my opinion, if you really want to improve air movement, go with a ceiling fan. Most are reversible. You can push warm air down during the winter, and pull cool air up during the summer. Wall fans are also good to take warm air from one room and push it into another.
When running on all three modes, auger is OFF for 15 seconds when running at heat level 1.
As above, auger is OFF for 8 seconds when running at heat level 2.
When running in PREMIUM and REGULAR modes, auger is OFF for 4 seconds when running at heat level 3.
If running on MULTIFUEL, auger is OFF for 5 seconds (poorer fuel requires more time to burn before adding fresh fuel).
When running in PREMIUM and REGULAR modes, auger is OFF for 2.5 seconds when running at heat level 4.
If running on MULTIFUEL, auger is OFF for 3.5 seconds.
When running in PREMIUM and REGULAR modes, auger is OFF for 1.5 seconds when running at heat level 5.
If running on MULTIFUEL, auger is OFF for 2.5 seconds.
As for controlling speeds on the circulation fan, I do agree with some of the points raised here. Would be nice to have a little more manual adjustment.
Pellet stoves get a nasty rap for being loud (and some of them could raise the dead!). They designed this stove to be much quieter than most. Aside from noise, I am thinking they might also be concerned about folks running fan on high while stove is at the low heat level settings. I could be wrong, but would this not cause the heat exchanger to cool? Am thinking if conditions were right, this might lead to nasty accumulations of creosote.
Will ask my contacts about this again. At one time, they were talking about a turbo-fan setting for the higher heat levels.
In my opinion, if you really want to improve air movement, go with a ceiling fan. Most are reversible. You can push warm air down during the winter, and pull cool air up during the summer. Wall fans are also good to take warm air from one room and push it into another.
flynfrfun
Minister of Fire
Thanks Fireplaceguy for all your input....it really helps.
Here is a question...Is the net heat output the same if you have a low output convection fan that puts out less air, but really hot air compared to a high output convection fan that blows more air into the room, but at a lower temp? Seems like I've read about other pellet stove owners that turn the convection fan as high as possible on medium flame settings and seem to think they get more heat out of the stove (they notice the house is warmer). I'm pretty new to pellet stoves, so where would we have to worry about creosote? In the exhaust piping? Couldn't be on the heat exchanger since we can clean that with the cleaning rod? Just curious.
Would that turbofan mode require changing out the convection blower? I assume the blower is running at full speed when on heat setting 5? You are correct, this stove is really quiet. They met their goal in that respect. The only other stove I've heard as quiet is the Quad Mt Vernon, but I didn't like their auto-dump setup. Seemed mikey-mouse to me compared to the heavy duty and truly effective agitator tines on the M55.
Flynfrfun
Here is a question...Is the net heat output the same if you have a low output convection fan that puts out less air, but really hot air compared to a high output convection fan that blows more air into the room, but at a lower temp? Seems like I've read about other pellet stove owners that turn the convection fan as high as possible on medium flame settings and seem to think they get more heat out of the stove (they notice the house is warmer). I'm pretty new to pellet stoves, so where would we have to worry about creosote? In the exhaust piping? Couldn't be on the heat exchanger since we can clean that with the cleaning rod? Just curious.
Would that turbofan mode require changing out the convection blower? I assume the blower is running at full speed when on heat setting 5? You are correct, this stove is really quiet. They met their goal in that respect. The only other stove I've heard as quiet is the Quad Mt Vernon, but I didn't like their auto-dump setup. Seemed mikey-mouse to me compared to the heavy duty and truly effective agitator tines on the M55.
Flynfrfun
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
flynfrfun said:
I swapped out the blower on my stove with one from the Maxx. It's double the CFM of the original blower. Its not that you get more heat, As it actually cools the air more. But you circulate the air about faster. I have noticed faster temp rise with mine. Even before I added the duct to the stove. Hard to explain, But it does warm the room faster even though the output temp is lower. As the output air is still warmer than the room.
The "draw back" is noise. The stove is much louder with the larger blower. I wouldn't be able to stand it if it was in my living room!
CONCORDE
New Member
As for creosote build up, from my experience you usually see this where stoves have been burned continuously at low heat settings or when routine maintenance & cleaning is not performed. Improper air settings can cause creosote. Aside from slider / damper position and board adjustment, you must ensure gaskets in doors seal up properly. Damp pellets can also cause a lot of creosote problems. Creosote can build up on glass, on the walls of the firebox, cake-up on the heat exhanger tubes, and within the exhaust system. In extreme cases, you can also find this down in the ash pan area. Does not happen overnight. Usually takes a lot of neglect over a period of time. In this forum, you will often see that people often assume there is something defective with their stove if it quits, when what has happened is the stove is just asking to be cleaned.
There are safeties (ie. pressure switch / vent switch) that are built-in to shut the stove down if there are blockages in the intake, firebox air passages, or exhaust. In addition, most stoves have an exhaust temp sensor that will turn the auger off to stop feeding fuel if no heat is detected. As a third level of safety, stoves have a high-limit to shut the stove down if it is overheating.
As to other questions in regards to feed rate on various settings, would think it would be similar to the Omega. Other more technical questions would have to be answered by someone at Sherwood.
There are safeties (ie. pressure switch / vent switch) that are built-in to shut the stove down if there are blockages in the intake, firebox air passages, or exhaust. In addition, most stoves have an exhaust temp sensor that will turn the auger off to stop feeding fuel if no heat is detected. As a third level of safety, stoves have a high-limit to shut the stove down if it is overheating.
As to other questions in regards to feed rate on various settings, would think it would be similar to the Omega. Other more technical questions would have to be answered by someone at Sherwood.
jtakeman
Minister of Fire
flynfrfun
Minister of Fire
Hi I just wanted to add to the thread on the M55. I recently swapped out my Empress FPI with the larger M55 insert and what a significant difference in every category, design, build, control panel and certainly on noise level. I have been running the M55 for just about a month now and the only issue that I am seeing is the amount of pellets that it consumes. For the first few days I had some of the issues that I have read on other posts such as unburnt pellets being pushed into the ash pan and the pot clean out agitator running every time the auger would run which is every 3.25 to 4.0 seconds. After 4 days of getting frustrated with that noise, I unplugged the stove to pull it out and inspect all of the connections - which were all fine but a funny thing happened when I plugged the stove back in,,,, the agitator started running as it was designed to. Turns on for the first minute then very slowly turns to clean out every 10 minutes of so.
Heat output on this stove is excellent and the stove is so quite that I can now turn my TV down by 5 volume settings. With the Empress I had to turn the TV up to around 25 on the volume, with the larger, more powerful M55 I run the TV at a volume level of 19 a Big difference on sound.
The only problem that I have is the amount of pellets that this stove burns. I have conducted some test over the past 10 days or so and the best I can get is 10.25 hours out of a bag of Premium Lignetics Pellets. I have run the stove on all of the various settings and no matter what I do I still only get 10.25 hours out of a bag. Currently I am running the Pellet Quality setting on Premium, with a Combustion Setting of 3 and a Feed Rate of 2 and the stove runs very clean and produces enough heat for this shoulder season (around 45 degrees in Mass) but I still only get 10 hours out of a bag. I have contacted Enviro tech to see if there is anyway to slow the auger down and reduce the pellet feed rates, however I have not heard back from them yet. I would have thought that by changing the feed rate setting would have achieved this, however I can sit in front of the stove and visually watch the pellets drop in and time the feed rate cycle and I see no time difference. every 3.25 to 4.0 like clock work. I am not sure if anyone can offer some advice on perhaps better, more economical settings that I can try since I have not been able to figure them out at this point. Overall this stove is great and is super quiet and well built and well thought out. Install was a breeze and the rail system makes it pretty easy to do maintenance. Oh Ya the other problem I am having is the right side of the door glass almost immediately gets dirty,,, the rest of the glass is always spotless and if Sherwood could figure out why just that part of the glass gets dirty would be great.
Thanks for listening.
Heat output on this stove is excellent and the stove is so quite that I can now turn my TV down by 5 volume settings. With the Empress I had to turn the TV up to around 25 on the volume, with the larger, more powerful M55 I run the TV at a volume level of 19 a Big difference on sound.
The only problem that I have is the amount of pellets that this stove burns. I have conducted some test over the past 10 days or so and the best I can get is 10.25 hours out of a bag of Premium Lignetics Pellets. I have run the stove on all of the various settings and no matter what I do I still only get 10.25 hours out of a bag. Currently I am running the Pellet Quality setting on Premium, with a Combustion Setting of 3 and a Feed Rate of 2 and the stove runs very clean and produces enough heat for this shoulder season (around 45 degrees in Mass) but I still only get 10 hours out of a bag. I have contacted Enviro tech to see if there is anyway to slow the auger down and reduce the pellet feed rates, however I have not heard back from them yet. I would have thought that by changing the feed rate setting would have achieved this, however I can sit in front of the stove and visually watch the pellets drop in and time the feed rate cycle and I see no time difference. every 3.25 to 4.0 like clock work. I am not sure if anyone can offer some advice on perhaps better, more economical settings that I can try since I have not been able to figure them out at this point. Overall this stove is great and is super quiet and well built and well thought out. Install was a breeze and the rail system makes it pretty easy to do maintenance. Oh Ya the other problem I am having is the right side of the door glass almost immediately gets dirty,,, the rest of the glass is always spotless and if Sherwood could figure out why just that part of the glass gets dirty would be great.
Thanks for listening.
I'm getting about a full day on each bag of Eureka pellets (on average). A daily fill and I'm good to go. Setting is feed trim 3, combustion air 3, Hi-Lo setting.
Temps here range from -20 a few weeks ago to low 40's this week. House is above average insulated, stove located in half underground basement.
Temps here range from -20 a few weeks ago to low 40's this week. House is above average insulated, stove located in half underground basement.
WOW I cant come close to a full day! I have been closely monitoring the daily running of my stove, alternated manufactures pellets to see if there would be a difference and all I see is 15 minutes difference on run time on a full bag of pellets. Over 10 bags, I consistently get either 10 hours or 10 hrs and 15 minutes. I kinda figured that this should not be the case, however the stove is running great and I see no noticeable issues that lead me to believe that something else is wrong. I have contacted Sherwood - who by the way has been great - quick response and even have called me at my home in the past, but still no resolve.
It seems to me that my auger run time, which is always every 3.25 to 4 seconds seems to be over kill and I am feeding in more pellets than the flame needs. I am hoping that Sherwood can tell me (or my installer) how to manually adjust or calibrate this and increase the timings to say every 6 or 8 seconds instead of the every 4.
BTW - my insert is installed in a see through fireplace so I have full access to view the back of the stove while it is running so I can actually video the auger running every 3 to 4 seconds - not sure why I would do that, but I have found myself sitting in the other room with a stop watch timing this thing while enjoying a bottle of wine - crazy ha!
Well I appreciate your post back, and I am still hoping that someone can give me some direction on how to retard the timing to increase the amount of time that I get out of a bag.
Thanks
It seems to me that my auger run time, which is always every 3.25 to 4 seconds seems to be over kill and I am feeding in more pellets than the flame needs. I am hoping that Sherwood can tell me (or my installer) how to manually adjust or calibrate this and increase the timings to say every 6 or 8 seconds instead of the every 4.
BTW - my insert is installed in a see through fireplace so I have full access to view the back of the stove while it is running so I can actually video the auger running every 3 to 4 seconds - not sure why I would do that, but I have found myself sitting in the other room with a stop watch timing this thing while enjoying a bottle of wine - crazy ha!
Well I appreciate your post back, and I am still hoping that someone can give me some direction on how to retard the timing to increase the amount of time that I get out of a bag.
Thanks
Yes the stove has an apetite, a lot of it depends on your unique heating needs, etc.. Sherwood I believe has an adjustable auger cover that limits
the amount of pellets that get to the auger. I know from burning a few different pellets that the smaller pellets will feed quicker, even at the lowest setting.
Pellets from 1/2" to 1" seem to feed at the best rate. Good luck and enjoy the stove.
the amount of pellets that get to the auger. I know from burning a few different pellets that the smaller pellets will feed quicker, even at the lowest setting.
Pellets from 1/2" to 1" seem to feed at the best rate. Good luck and enjoy the stove.
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