Enviro Wood Stoves

[NoGoodAtScreenNames]

Occasionally I’m running into an issue where I hit very high temperatures (700+) while the stove is heating up after a reload with the air control at either 90% or 100% closed. At this point I usually turn the air control all the way down (if it wasn’t already), and turn the fan to high. That always cools down the stove, but will also cause the flames to weaken to the point where I feel like I need to give it more air or it will smolder. The flames usually weaken fastener than the temp comes down, and so then I’m playing this game where I’m giving it a little air (and/or turning down the fan) to strengthen the fire, which causes the temp to increase… and so I reverse what I did, which causes the temp to come down, but the flames to weaken faster… and I’m back to giving it more air. I ride this cycle a few times until I'm comfortably past the peak and the stove temp is stable in the high 500's.

What am I doing to cause this? Am I not shutting the air down soon enough? I usually start at about 300 degrees. Is it my wood? It's only happened to me maybe 3 times.

First thing to note is that despite the 550 over-fire disclaimer, hitting 700 isn’t uncommon. You’re right to turn the fan higher and turn the air intake lower when it happens. But if the fire looks normal then you’re probably fine. Enjoy the heat pumping out.

An out of control fire for me looks different than other fires, Gates of Hell coming out of the secondaries, primary flames are strong despite air being shut down, flames wafting down from the top across the glass and sometimes if looks like the primary air is spitting out fire. Most importantly the fire doesn’t seem to respond well to anything you do - it’s an unstoppable beast.

It doesn’t sound like you have that since you can still tamp down the fire with the primary controls.

How to avoid crazy fires?

- Wait until the stove top is no higher than 300F before reloading
- Wait until you have a small amount of coals. Pull them all forward to the front. I️ like a good row across the front, 3 inches deep and no higher than the door opening.
- Try not to load larger splits above the top of the brick level. Some little stuff that will catch and burn down quickly is ok.
- Don’t shut down too early. You will hit temps quicker on a reload but make sure you let each piece catch and get charred before shutting it down. If you switch to closed air / secondary before a split has lit, when it starts off gassing it can make the secondary burn go wild. I️ like to lay a piece of kindling East / West on top of the coals to help spread the fire horizontally quickly to help that out.

Good luck.

 

[illini81]

First thing to note is that despite the 550 over-fire disclaimer, hitting 700 isn’t uncommon. You’re right to turn the fan higher and turn the air intake lower when it happens. But if the fire looks normal then you’re probably fine. Enjoy the heat pumping out.

An out of control fire for me looks different than other fires, Gates of Hell coming out of the secondaries, primary flames are strong despite air being shut down, flames wafting down from the top across the glass and sometimes if looks like the primary air is spitting out fire. Most importantly the fire doesn’t seem to respond well to anything you do - it’s an unstoppable beast.

It doesn’t sound like you have that since you can still tamp down the fire with the primary controls.

How to avoid crazy fires?

- Wait until the stove top is no higher than 300F before reloading
- Wait until you have a small amount of coals. Pull them all forward to the front. I️ like a good row across the front, 3 inches deep and no higher than the door opening.
- Try not to load larger splits above the top of the brick level. Some little stuff that will catch and burn down quickly is ok.
- Don’t shut down too early. You will hit temps quicker on a reload but make sure you let each piece catch and get charred before shutting it down. If you switch to closed air / secondary before a split has lit, when it starts off gassing it can make the secondary burn go wild. I️ like to lay a piece of kindling East / West on top of the coals to help spread the fire horizontally quickly to help that out.

Good luck.

Thanks. Very helpful advice. I think I've been paying too much attention to stove top temp, and not enough attention to the look of the fire. There are definitely times I have started turning down the air before each piece is charred.

Totally unrelated, but my wife has really been loving learning how to use the stove, which has been great. I wasn't sure what she would think. For the most part, we really try to get into hobbies/activities together so we can enjoy them together. Initially, the stove was a lot more my thing than hers, and I was worried she might find it an annoyance. Instead, she's been enjoying learning the nuances of how/when to load the stove. It also helps that our home is about 10 degrees warmer than it's ever been

 

[saewoody]

Thanks. Very helpful advice. I think I've been paying too much attention to stove top temp, and not enough attention to the look of the fire. There are definitely times I have started turning down the air before each piece is charred.

Totally unrelated, but my wife has really been loving learning how to use the stove, which has been great. I wasn't sure what she would think. For the most part, we really try to get into hobbies/activities together so we can enjoy them together. Initially, the stove was a lot more my thing than hers, and I was worried she might find it an annoyance. Instead, she's been enjoying learning the nuances of how/when to load the stove. It also helps that our home is about 10 degrees warmer than it's ever been

My wife loves the stove as well. It’s great you both enjoy it.


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[stovelark]

Thank you for the kind words saewoody
Happy to read so many good things about Enviros. About the air adjustments- remember if the stove is burning briskly with stove top temps hitting 300 or so and you adjust the air down, initially the flame is going to die down even though the temps will continue to rise, you've slowed down the air flow inside the firebox, keeping hot gases in the stove longer to burn more completely which leads to continuing increasing temps (temporarily at least until it settles out). The flames will die down when air is shut off and they will slowly rebuild up to a point and burn along happily and burning cleanly. All normal and indicates a happy stove draft, good seasoned wood which leads to a happy toasty warm home for all to inhabit. A great thing...

 

[SculptureOfSound]

16" wide X 10" high

Thanks Illini. That's bigger than I thought based on the pictures.

 

[illini81]

Thanks Illini. That's bigger than I thought based on the pictures.

Glad to help!

 

[illini81]

Question for you experienced burners. I remember reading in an old post by BeGreen (trying to dig it up now – was a thread on cat vs non-cat I think) that for some Enviro stoves, the primary air control also controls secondary air. Did you know about this? Do you know how exactly the secondary air and primary air are coupled? I don’t know if this has something to do with what Enviro calls their “Progressive Burn Technology”, or if that’s something altogether different? This probably wouldn’t affect how I use my stove, I’m just curious.

 

[Stubblefire]

Too bad enviro doesn't put a few more information videos on YouTube or their website page that helps owners dial in their stoves better.

 

[saewoody]

Question for you experienced burners. I remember reading in an old post by BeGreen (trying to dig it up now – was a thread on cat vs non-cat I think) that for some Enviro stoves, the primary air control also controls secondary air. Did you know about this? Do you know how exactly the secondary air and primary air are coupled? I don’t know if this has something to do with what Enviro calls their “Progressive Burn Technology”, or if that’s something altogether different? This probably wouldn’t affect how I use my stove, I’m just curious.

Good question. I’ve never actually heard of that.


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[stovelark]

Believe what BG was mainly talking about with EBT extended burn technology used by PE stoves, a way of reducing sec air allowed in by adjusting down the primary air too, its available on certain models from PE. Progressive burn tech from Enviro is by reducing the primary air control, sec air is allowed to do its thing, burning the gases in the upper baffle area of the stove, while primary air is cut back, allowing less air to shoot across the combustion bed, this allows the wood in the lower back portion of the stove to burn slowly, thus allowing for a progressively long burn time. I know it sure seems to work in my stove, I'm always amazed at how many coals are still left in the morning at the back of the firebox, to rake forward and start the process over. Big fan here of PBT..

 

[illini81]

Believe what BG was mainly talking about with EBT extended burn technology used by PE stoves, a way of reducing sec air allowed in by adjusting down the primary air too, its available on certain models from PE. Progressive burn tech from Enviro is by reducing the primary air control, sec air is allowed to do its thing, burning the gases in the upper baffle area of the stove, while primary air is cut back, allowing less air to shoot across the combustion bed, this allows the wood in the lower back portion of the stove to burn slowly, thus allowing for a progressively long burn time. I know it sure seems to work in my stove, I'm always amazed at how many coals are still left in the morning at the back of the firebox, to rake forward and start the process over. Big fan here of PBT..

Ok, so I just found the post by BeGreen I was referencing. It does sound like he was not talking about PBT, which is what I originally assumed he might be talking about:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/cat-vs-non-cat-flame-show-only.163587/#post-2197151

BeGreen actually references a different post by thechimneysweep, who explains how on some PE stoves, the primary and secondary air are both linked to the air control. Maybe this does not actually apply to Enviro stoves as well though?

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...o-you-go-with-the-inlet-air.7863/#post-173519

Again, it doesn't really change how I would operate my stove. Just curious.

 

[illini81]

I'm always amazed at how many coals are still left in the morning at the back of the firebox, to rake forward and start the process over. Big fan here of PBT..

Agreed! Often when I come downstairs, the pile of coals in the back of the stove looks like a “honeycomb” of glowing tunnels. Rake it forward, throw on some splits and it’s blazing in minutes.

 

[begreen]

Believe what BG was mainly talking about with EBT extended burn technology used by PE stoves, a way of reducing sec air allowed in by adjusting down the primary air too, its available on certain models from PE. Progressive burn tech from Enviro is by reducing the primary air control, sec air is allowed to do its thing, burning the gases in the upper baffle area of the stove, while primary air is cut back, allowing less air to shoot across the combustion bed, this allows the wood in the lower back portion of the stove to burn slowly, thus allowing for a progressively long burn time. I know it sure seems to work in my stove, I'm always amazed at how many coals are still left in the morning at the back of the firebox, to rake forward and start the process over. Big fan here of PBT..

The EBT is different technology and only on the large PE stoves. What I was referring to is the linked secondary air control which is on the mid-sized PE stoves. It's been quite a while, but IIRC several years ago someone posted some bottom shots of a Kodiak that showed the mid-sized Enviros also had this. I'm not sure about the Kodiak 2100, but it was my understanding that the 1200 and 1700 have this coupled air control. @stovelark can you verify?

 

[stovelark]

Hi BG, Actually I can't. I can however try and find out and will report back. I did think it was PE exclusive. More to follow.

 

[illini81]

Is there any reason to clean out my blower motor more than once per year?

 

[begreen]

Is there any reason to clean out my blower motor more than once per year?

Twice a season might be advisable if the blower is running 24/7 in a dusty household and/or one with multiple shedding pets.

 

[saewoody]

Is there any reason to clean out my blower motor more than once per year?

I didn’t do anything to mine for four years. Started making an occasional noise in the third or fourth year. I probably should have cleaned it. 2 cats, a dog, 4 kids. Plenty a fur and dust to go around! Once a year will probably do.


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[easy_ed]

I installed an Enviro Kodiak 1700 Insert about a month ago. Been working well, seems to put out more heat than the old catalytic VC that it replaced. I do have two questions for the group:

1. How do you measure temperature? I bought a magnetic stove top thermometer and set it on the top of the stove dead center and it never goes over 200 degrees F. Am I mounting it in the wrong place?

2. The secondary air tubes often glow. Not bright orange, but a deep dark red, almost maroon. This happens even with just a couple of decent sized pieces of oak. I've just turned the air down to cool things off. Is this glowing okay? Should I just let it be?

Thank you for the forum!

 

[saewoody]

I installed an Enviro Kodiak 1700 Insert about a month ago. Been working well, seems to put out more heat than the old catalytic VC that it replaced. I do have two questions for the group:

1. How do you measure temperature? I bought a magnetic stove top thermometer and set it on the top of the stove dead center and it never goes over 200 degrees F. Am I mounting it in the wrong place?

2. The secondary air tubes often glow. Not bright orange, but a deep dark red, almost maroon. This happens even with just a couple of decent sized pieces of oak. I've just turned the air down to cool things off. Is this glowing okay? Should I just let it be?

Thank you for the forum!

It’s possible you’ve got a bad thermometer. Do you have any kids that played with it and stretches the spring? Happened to me once. Also make sure the spring is attached on the back. Mine came loose once, again due to a kid! Good luck.

 

[easy_ed]

View attachment 217663View attachment 217663View attachment 217664
It’s possible you’ve got a bad thermometer. Do you have any kids that played with it and stretches the spring? Happened to me once. Also make sure the spring is attached on the back. Mine came loose once, again due to a kid! Good luck.


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That is the exact position I placed the thermometer, I'll check it for damage... Thank you!

 

[illini81]

I installed an Enviro Kodiak 1700 Insert about a month ago. Been working well, seems to put out more heat than the old catalytic VC that it replaced. I do have two questions for the group:

1. How do you measure temperature? I bought a magnetic stove top thermometer and set it on the top of the stove dead center and it never goes over 200 degrees F. Am I mounting it in the wrong place?

2. The secondary air tubes often glow. Not bright orange, but a deep dark red, almost maroon. This happens even with just a couple of decent sized pieces of oak. I've just turned the air down to cool things off. Is this glowing okay? Should I just let it be?

Thank you for the forum!

Welcome to hearth.com! I have the Boston, which has the same firebox as the Kodiak. I don’t often see my air tubes glow, although it seems like that’s common for some tube stove burners:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/glowing-red-secondary-burn-tubes.11883/

Do you have an IR gun? You could use that to check the accuracy of your magnetic thermometer. If you don’t already have one, they’re not expensive, and can be helpful for all kinds of things in addition to checking the temp of your stove. Also, they’re just kinda fun to play with. Here’s the one I have:

https://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Lasergrip-1080-Non-contact-Thermometer/dp/B00DMI632G/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

If you have the time, post a pic of your set up

 

[B-MoreDan]

I installed an Enviro Kodiak 1700 late October this year. It's my first wood stove and so far, I absolutely love it. My house is 2700 sq. ft. and it heats the entire first floor no problem, typically keeping the rooms furthest from the stove 66-68 on the coldest of days. I still need to use the upstairs heat pump to keep the bedrooms at 66. We burn 24x7 and I'm loving the low electric bills we've received so far this winter season.

When I was shopping around for a dealer/installer, I found a dealer that would sell me the stove for $2k (including surround panel), 30ft. of flexible liner for $400 and insulation for $200. I installed in an existing masonry fireplace that had plenty of room to hold the Kodiak 1700. I was going to have it professionally installed, but I have a friend who had installed before tell me it's a straightforward install. I was still torn, but then the dealer also recommended doing it myself if I was at all handy. He even came out to the house to take a look and make sure I didn't have any gotchas that may require a pro. My brother and I tackled the job and we installed without issue. My flu is 13x13, and chimney is only ~13ft. from the top to the top of the stove, so running the liner was not hard at all. We also installed a blocker plate.

As far as temperature of the stove, I use an IR thermometer and shoot the top right or top left corner of the stove, between the door and the top of the stove. If I shoot the top of the stove (looking down at the stove), the temperature is always 200-300 degrees cooler and I think that's because there's a gap between the top plate of the stove and the stove itself (this is where the blower air is expelled). When getting the fire going in the morning, it's not uncommon to get the stove in the high 500 low 600 degree range. Once it's going, I'll move the damper to 1/3 - 1/2 open and it will go down around high 400/low 500 degrees. Once I have nothing but coals left, I'll open it all the way again and let the coals burn a while and then re-load to repeat the entire cycle. After a night of burning, usually around 9 hours, there's almost always coals at the back of the stove that I rake forward and they're still burning well enough to get the morning load started.

Thanks for starting this thread! I've also noticed there's not a ton of info. or you tube videos on the Enviro stoves. I'm always looking for tips or recommendations that other owners have, especially since I consider myself a wood stove newbie.

 

[illini81]

I installed an Enviro Kodiak 1700 late October this year. It's my first wood stove and so far, I absolutely love it. My house is 2700 sq. ft. and it heats the entire first floor no problem, typically keeping the rooms furthest from the stove 66-68 on the coldest of days. I still need to use the upstairs heat pump to keep the bedrooms at 66. We burn 24x7 and I'm loving the low electric bills we've received so far this winter season.

When I was shopping around for a dealer/installer, I found a dealer that would sell me the stove for $2k (including surround panel), 30ft. of flexible liner for $400 and insulation for $200. I installed in an existing masonry fireplace that had plenty of room to hold the Kodiak 1700. I was going to have it professionally installed, but I have a friend who had installed before tell me it's a straightforward install. I was still torn, but then the dealer also recommended doing it myself if I was at all handy. He even came out to the house to take a look and make sure I didn't have any gotchas that may require a pro. My brother and I tackled the job and we installed without issue. My flu is 13x13, and chimney is only ~13ft. from the top to the top of the stove, so running the liner was not hard at all. We also installed a blocker plate.

As far as temperature of the stove, I use an IR thermometer and shoot the top right or top left corner of the stove, between the door and the top of the stove. If I shoot the top of the stove (looking down at the stove), the temperature is always 200-300 degrees cooler and I think that's because there's a gap between the top plate of the stove and the stove itself (this is where the blower air is expelled). When getting the fire going in the morning, it's not uncommon to get the stove in the high 500 low 600 degree range. Once it's going, I'll move the damper to 1/3 - 1/2 open and it will go down around high 400/low 500 degrees. Once I have nothing but coals left, I'll open it all the way again and let the coals burn a while and then re-load to repeat the entire cycle. After a night of burning, usually around 9 hours, there's almost always coals at the back of the stove that I rake forward and they're still burning well enough to get the morning load started.

Thanks for starting this thread! I've also noticed there's not a ton of info. or you tube videos on the Enviro stoves. I'm always looking for tips or recommendations that other owners have, especially since I consider myself a wood stove newbie.

Beautiful hearth and beautiful stove! Thanks for sharing details on how you run your stove. It's really helpful to have points of comparison. My stove seems to get significantly hotter (typical peak in the 700's, and then cruises for hrs in the 500's and 600's). Maybe that just has to do with the fact that we measure temperature differently? I use my IR gun to point at the top of the stove, inside the gap that you mention.

 

[illini81]

Or, it also might have to do with the position of your air control rod when your cruising? My understanding is that if the air is too far open, the stove actually can be cooler than if you close it further (although this isn't always the case... which can be confusing). I usually cruise with my air between 10% open and fully closed.

I'm a newbie as well though... so evaluate whatever I say accordingly

 

[begreen]

Yes, often folks coming from pre-EPA stoves have to relearn how to run a modern stove. A lot of times this is because operational docs are weak.