EPA stove goes out

[Campcook]

I'm hoping someone can help me. I recently got rid of my old smoke dragon airtight stove for one of those new EPA certified non-cat stoves. The problem I'm facing is that the fire goes out before it fully burns the wood at the back of the fire box. The fire will be going, I'll shut her down, and later when I go to rake the coals I'll find a piece at the back. Sometimes is half burned, most of the time it's just blackened.

I'm also having trouble on reloads, I'll rake the coals, put the wood in and the split sitting on the coals will just sit there and smolder for about 20 minutes before it finally goes, and then it takes forever for the fire to move past that initial split.

The only way I've found to get things to run like they should is to criss-cross my wood, which obviously cuts my burn time down.

I've been burning wood for 40 years, I just can't figure out this stove.

Am I just too old for this new technology?

-My wood is at ~20% and the stove and new pipe were professionally installed.-

 

[bholler]

I'm hoping someone can help me. I recently got rid of my old smoke dragon airtight stove for one of those new EPA certified non-cat stoves. The problem I'm facing is that the fire goes out before it fully burns the wood at the back of the fire box. The fire will be going, I'll shut her down, and later when I go to rake the coals I'll find a piece at the back. Sometimes is half burned, most of the time it's just blackened.

I'm also having trouble on reloads, I'll rake the coals, put the wood in and the split sitting on the coals will just sit there and smolder for about 20 minutes before it finally goes, and then it takes forever for the fire to move past that initial split.

The only way I've found to get things to run like they should is to criss-cross my wood, which obviously cuts my burn time down.

I've been burning wood for 40 years, I just can't figure out this stove.

Am I just too old for this new technology?

-My wood is at ~20% and the stove and new pipe were professionally installed.-

How are you testing the moisture content of the wood? What stove is it what type size and height is the chimney.

 

[orlkc]

I'm entirely new to wood stoves, so I can't provide a comparison to pre-EPA stoves, but I do find myself with similar problems as you. In my case the wood I have isn't quite dry enough (first year problem) -- resplits measure between 18-24% MC, and while I haven't measured it the chimney has multiple risk factors for insufficient draft.

I've found that in my stove (Hearthstone Heritage) if I want to get everything to burn and I'm going to let fire go out I need to rake coals towards the doghouse towards the end of the cycle.

On reloads I've found that I need to sit with the door open a crack until everything's alight, and that I need to wait longer than I think I should, and also to be sure to include some smaller splits mixed in with larger pieces. If I don't do both of these steps then it'll take too long to get back up to a proper temperature.

 

[webby3650]

Im also curious how you test the woods moisture content. Wood burns, water doesn’t. The main reason wood won’t burn, and most particularly the reason it would burn out is moisture content.

 

[Nick Mystic]

I moved to a new fangled stove like you a few years ago and it takes some time to get the hang of it. I have a Jotul F600, which is a great stove and I really like it. However, you can't always just set the primary air and forget about it. Fortunately, I enjoy watching the fire and don't mind making the necessary air adjustments to keep things burning well. In my case, once I get the fire burning well with the primary air wide open I can start reducing the air once the stove top temperature hits about 300F. That will usually fire off the secondary burn tubes. However, after a time (which depends on too many variables to describe here) the secondaries start to die out and then I have to open the primary air back up. In my case it seems best to just open the primary all the way open and then I can count on the fire burning consistently until it burns out completely. So, experiment with your stove and see what works best.

 

[Squisher]

Having been a lifelong woodburner myself and only in recent years moving to a modern EPA stove. I have three words of advice.

Thermometer

Thermometer

Thermometer

It and some research on temps will help you dial that sucker in in no time

But the questions asked by bholler should be answered if you're wanting help here. Make sure everything is set up right and that the main ingredient is of proper vintage/cured. The wood that is.

 

[Campcook]

But the questions asked by bholler should be answered if you're wanting help here. Make sure everything is set up right and that the main ingredient is of proper vintage/cured. The wood that is.

Stove is a Lopi 1250. It's a pretty small stove (1.5 cf firebox), but we've got a small house.

The chimney is double walled pipe through the roof, about 25 feet long with about 5 feet outside. Again, professionally installed to make sure height was okay for draft.

I have a moisture meter. Split the wood and test the freshly exposed face, its all at or slightly below 20%.

 

[Hogwildz]

Not what you want to hear, but unburnt coals and smouldering for that long is a sure sign of wood that is not dry enough. Unless you're cutting the air back too soon, too much, or both. I would think with a stack that high the air should almost be able to be set to low.

That long to ingnite after loading on hot coals only happens with wet wood, or not enough hot colas at reload.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Stove is a Lopi 1250. It's a pretty small stove (1.5 cf firebox), but we've got a small house.

The chimney is double walled pipe through the roof, about 25 feet long with about 5 feet outside. Again, professionally installed to make sure height was okay for draft.

I have a moisture meter. Split the wood and test the freshly exposed face, its all at or slightly below 20%.

Room temp split?

 

[Squisher]

So the last aspect of testing wood for moisture is it should be at room temperature. As in take a split that has been warmed to room temperature, split it and test the freshly exposed face in multiple spots. Not sure what sort of outdoor temps you are seeing yet or if you have tested it inside or not.

Do you use a thermometer? You could simply never be gettting hot enough to drive strong draft or support proper combustion if you're not.

Sounds like your setup is good. Pictures of the stove/setup can help to spy if anything might be amiss. It shouldn't, but stranger things have occurred than issues with pro installs.

Something is up. Everyone suspects wood because it's most often the culprit. If the install is good and stove is assembled properly/no issues it's really hard for dry wood not to burn up in a modern EPA stove with a good hot fire going.

Have you checked your air control is functioning properly. From full open to full close do you see a dramatic change in the firebox?

 

[Squisher]

I will add if you've burned 40 years with a pre-EPA stove. You are very much going to want sort out this new stove. When I switched I cut my wood use by about 1/3 in the same home. Simply by changing stoves. And I enjoy the convenience of easy overnight burns and long burn times.

 

[Sodbuster]

I think I know what your talking about and will get this from time to time. If I cut the air back too aggressively on my PE Summit to get it to low burn, there are times that logs, usually 1/4 splits that are flush up against the firebrick with be unburned but charred, later in the coaling process. Use the poker to drag them to the middle and they take off. I like to keep about 3" between the wood and the firebrick, but I imagine it's different with each stove. 20% MC is the cutoff I use to either throw it in this years pile, or let it season another year.

 

[Campcook]

I think I know what your talking about and will get this from time to time. If I cut the air back too aggressively on my PE Summit to get it to low burn, there are times that logs, usually 1/4 splits that are flush up against the firebrick with be unburned but charred, later in the coaling process. Use the poker to drag them to the middle and they take off. I like to keep about 3" between the wood and the firebrick, but I imagine it's different with each stove. 20% MC is the cutoff I use to either throw it in this years pile, or let it season another year.

Interesting. I'll try closing the air down more gradually. Thanks

 

[Seasoned Oak]

That sounds like my stove before the flue warms up. So id say its partly a draft problem. Try running a little more air. Once your flue cools down near the end of the burn draft may stall somewhat. If your wood is not as dry as it should be ,same remedy and smaller splits.

 

[Simonkenton]

I was an old time wood burner and had half a dozen old school stoves, including 2 stoves that I built from 55 gallon drums. And I liked those old wood stoves.

But when I switched to the new stove, I had the same problem you are having. I was burning wood that wasn't dry enough.

 

[peakbagger]

Yup, its the transition that almost everybody has to live through. Of course some dont and that is how folks get great deals on craigslist on year old stoves It will improve slightly as the weather cools down as the draft will increase. You definitely wont be able to get long burns until the wood is optimal.

 

[sportbikerider78]

For my Englander, I get the stove top to about 500-600 before cutting air back more than 1/2. Then I monitor it and cut it the rest of the way back when it looks like the wood is fully caught on fire. Meaning, I've got flames going pretty crazy.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

For my Englander, I get the stove top to about 500-600 before cutting air back more than 1/2. Then I monitor it and cut it the rest of the way back when it looks like the wood is fully caught on fire. Meaning, I've got flames going pretty crazy.

Exactly ,the magic happens after you get past the 500 mark. Get that stove and flue warmed up. Start up is not the time to burn low and slow.

 

[Doc C]

I'll tell you what I've found as the solution.

Epa stoves put alot less heat up the chimney. 6" pipe vs 8" pipe. Also they burn most of the smoke in the stove.

This design us on purpose and will make you use alot less wood.

I keep inside my house a box of kindling and my big wood. You know the kind you put in and it burns for hours.

Outside my house under my covered deck right outside my door by my stove I keep about a 4' rack of SMALL splits.

When I'm bringing my big wood into the house I randomly check with my moisture meter the end of the wood. If I get a reading that is less then the average I split that piece and check the inside the proper way except it's not at room temperature. If it's low I make it into small splits for my rack outside.

First thing in the morning I get a ripping fire to heat up the chimney using kindling and the small splits. Then once I have the stove top into the 500 range I add my add big wood and let it catch good. About 600 I start turning the fire down. About 700 I start opening windows.

During the day if the stove gets to cool I add small wood again. This should help.

And you can't effectively burn wet wood in an epa stove

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

I'm hoping someone can help me. I recently got rid of my old smoke dragon airtight stove for one of those new EPA certified non-cat stoves. The problem I'm facing is that the fire goes out before it fully burns the wood at the back of the fire box. The fire will be going, I'll shut her down, and later when I go to rake the coals I'll find a piece at the back. Sometimes is half burned, most of the time it's just blackened.

I'm also having trouble on reloads, I'll rake the coals, put the wood in and the split sitting on the coals will just sit there and smolder for about 20 minutes before it finally goes, and then it takes forever for the fire to move past that initial split.

The only way I've found to get things to run like they should is to criss-cross my wood, which obviously cuts my burn time down.

I've been burning wood for 40 years, I just can't figure out this stove.

Am I just too old for this new technology?

-My wood is at ~20% and the stove and new pipe were professionally installed.-

What kind of wood are you burning?

 

[Woody Stover]

I keep inside my house a box of kindling and my big wood. You know the kind you put in and it burns for hours. Outside my house under my covered deck right outside my door by my stove I keep about a 4' rack of SMALL splits.

That reminds me, you might also put small splits in the back, instead of one big one. The smaller ones will stay burning better on less oxygen than a big one.

 

[Campcook]

What kind of wood are you burning?

In the spring and fall and I burn a mix of red maple, white/yellow birch, and fir. When it gets cold I'll switch to sugar maple, beech, and ash.

I don't burn oak: beech and ash throw off just as much heat, burn just as long, and don't take 30-40 years to reach maturity OR two years to dry. Besides, I have more beech up here than I can shake a stick at.

I really watched my stove toward the end of the burn last night and this is what I'm seeing:

The front half of the stack goes fine (once it gets going), but as it moves toward the back it looks like it's just being smothered. I usually try to keep about an inch of ash, but maybe that isn't going to work with this new stove. Once I pull the wood out from the back and set it in the middle it takes right off and burns great.

Everyone telling me my wood is too wet: I have a moisture meter for God's sake. The wood is dry.

Woody Stover: I'll try small splits in the back and see what happens.

 

[Easy Livin’ 3000]

In the spring and fall and I burn a mix of red maple, white/yellow birch, and fir. When it gets cold I'll switch to sugar maple, beech, and ash.

I don't burn oak: beech and ash throw off just as much heat, burn just as long, and don't take 30-40 years to reach maturity OR two years to dry. Besides, I have more beech up here than I can shake a stick at.

I really watched my stove toward the end of the burn last night and this is what I'm seeing:

The front half of the stack goes fine (once it gets going), but as it moves toward the back it looks like it's just being smothered. I usually try to keep about an inch of ash, but maybe that isn't going to work with this new stove. Once I pull the wood out from the back and set it in the middle it takes right off and burns great.

Everyone telling me my wood is too wet: I have a moisture meter for God's sake. The wood is dry.

Woody Stover: I'll try small splits in the back and see what happens.

Have you opened up the air toward the end of the burn? I bet that fixes your problem. Probably not what you want to hear, as it means more attention to the stove.

Oh, and you might check the batteries in your moisture meter. Sounds like you might have wet wood. ;-)

 

[Woody Stover]

I really watched my stove toward the end of the burn last night and this is what I'm seeing:
The front half of the stack goes fine (once it gets going), but as it moves toward the back it looks like it's just being smothered. I usually try to keep about an inch of ash, but maybe that isn't going to work with this new stove. Once I pull the wood out from the back and set it in the middle it takes right off and burns great

I would keep the inch of ash in the bottom of the box: I don't believe that it is smothering your burn at all.
I think there is less oxygen available in the back of the EPA stoves; It is eaten up by the wood that is closer to the fresh air, even when that part of the load is mostly coals. The old stoves compensated for this by sucking huge amounts of air into the stove (and huge amounts of heat up the chimney.)
If you are home, you can just kick the air up a little toward the end of the burn, as has been suggested. If not, I think the smaller splits in back will definitely help.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Toward the end of the burn the flue cools down and the draft weakens ,thus the need to open up the air to burn down the coals ,or reload.