EV vs ICE

[begreen]

It depends on the car, refrigerant, and configuration. Most are good down to about 20ºF, but some, like Teslas work in Norway cold temps. Eventually though, the heat loss of the car body will exceed the output of the best systems. It's not a well insulated envelope and some cars have a lot of glass exposure.

 

[begreen]

It looks like a hyperheat style heatpump is used in vehicles such as the Tesla Model Y, Ford F-150 Lightning, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV6 and others. Rated good for sub- zero temps. I don't see a lot of winter mileage decline in our car and my wife likes it warm. In our 2018 Volt we would go from 70+ EV miles in summer to about 42 mile range in winter with its resistance heater.

Understanding heat pump systems in EVs and hybrids

Let's dive into what automotive heat pumps are, how they work, and cover concerns technicians need to be aware of when diagnosing them.

www.vehicleservicepros.com

 

[ABMax24]

It sounds like a new hybrid F150 is in the works. There is one for the upper trim 2025s already.

Note, a good EV uses a heatpump for primary cabin heat with a backup resistance coil. But I can see how the hybrid makes much more sense for your area, extreme cold weather, and distances driven.

They do have the Powerboost, which is based on the 3.5 ecoboost. An electrician friend has one, the onboard inverter is awesome for him, and gets good mileage in the summer. Unfortunately it's been towed out of his driveway a few times in the winter and brought to the dealer. Maybe the newer model years are better, as his was the first model year.

I have another friend with a Model 3, I should ask him if his has the heat pump and how well it works.

 

[DBoon]

Normal (whatever that may be) heat pumps may not cut it up there, especially when not much inefficiency (=heat) exists in the power train.

OK - the thread is fast filling with (always useful) anecdotes to make points. I'll add one with a bit of levity. Years ago (~1995) I traveled to Fort McMurray, Alberta (visit to Syncrude). It was about -35 degrees F when I arrived. I rented a car. The seats were normal foam filled but felt hard (frozen). The rental agency told me never to turn the car off unless I was parked overnight and plugged into a battery warmer. The engine produced enough waste heat to make it feel like it was about 40 degrees F in the car after about a 20 mile drive. Yeah, I can't imagine owning a BEV up there in the winter time.

 

[Turbo89]

I think the Ford Maverick Hybrid is a concept Ford needs to scale into their larger models, they did license the Toyota design after all. My parents have the Rav 4 hybrid, and it's a solid setup. My issue is a Maverick is too small for my needs. They'd have to move that package up to the F150 to suit me.

I love those trucks, and looked at them heavily; in the end it just couldn’t pull the trailer weight I needed. I tried to convince the wife to get one so I could drive it; butt the kiddos and 100lb dog made it a tough sell.

 

[EbS-P]

America’s infrastructure can’t support 100% EV adoption,

Sure it can. It’s supporting data centers. It’s not an over night thing. It’s something that utilities have time to plan for. I’m guessing in 25 years EVs will be over half but less than 3/4 registrations.

For those that live where it gets really cold there will be aftermarket solutions just like now. Would I install a diesel heater in an EV? Maybe. Once the market gets established cold climate package may include more than heated seats and wheel,

Amazing that emissions from mere gasoline production (not consumption) are the same as that of the kWh production for BEVs (current grid mix).

Makes since that fossil fuel extraction has roughly the same emissions oil Vs natural nat gas and coal.

 

[stoveliker]

For those that live where it gets really cold there will be aftermarket solutions just like now.

Just like block heaters now; ice engines don't do well out there without such things either...

Makes since that fossil fuel extraction has roughly the same emissions oil Vs natural nat gas and coal.

I think it's more the production of (pure) fuels rather than the extraction for oil and gas that carries their carbon budget.
Coal may be extraction.

Refineries use a TON of energy.

 

[begreen]

Sure it can. It’s supporting data centers. It’s not an over night thing. It’s something that utilities have time to plan for. I’m guessing in 25 years EVs will be over half but less than 3/4 registrations.

For those that live where it gets really cold there will be aftermarket solutions just like now. Would I install a diesel heater in an EV? Maybe. Once the market gets established cold climate package may include more than heated seats and wheel,

Makes since that fossil fuel extraction has roughly the same emissions oil Vs natural nat gas and coal.

Yes, I had a VW fastback years ago with an auxiliary Webasto heater. That thing would blast out heat instantly. I've installed a couple of Espars in sailboats for heat too.