EV vs ICE

[EbS-P]

The Lucid CEO is selling to highly affluent customers who often have different agendas. He does not speak for the general public IMO. People have all sorts of reasons for determining car purchases.

In general cost is the biggest factor for mass production. If you could get a 300 mile range 5 seater with 250kw charging for less than 28k that it would be competitive, if gas goes up even more so.

 

[begreen]

Given inflation and tarrifs, that may not happen here. We'll see. However, we may see something like this play out soon in Canada, where their market has just opened up to Chinese cars.

 

[DBoon]

If you could get a 300 mile range 5 seater with 250kw charging for less than 28k that it would be competitive, if gas goes up even more so.

That's almost what the Chevy Bolt is (260 mile range, 150 kW charging, seats 5 passengers comfortably (though you wouldn't think that from the outside) for $30k or so. It won't hold luggage for 5 passengers, and if the passengers are over 250 lbs. each, then it is probably realistically seats 4 (there is a LARGE amount of legroom in the backseat of the bolt).

 

[woodgeek]

That's almost what the Chevy Bolt is (260 mile range, 150 kW charging, seats 5 passengers comfortably (though you wouldn't think that from the outside) for $30k or so. It won't hold luggage for 5 passengers, and if the passengers are over 250 lbs. each, then it is probably realistically seats 4 (there is a LARGE amount of legroom in the backseat of the bolt).

Except that the Bolt's max charging speeed was 55 kW on a good day. The one I leased in 2022 was also over $35k MSRP.

 

[begreen]

That's almost what the Chevy Bolt is (260 mile range, 150 kW charging, seats 5 passengers comfortably (though you wouldn't think that from the outside) for $30k or so.

Except that the Bolt's max charging speeed was 55 kW on a good day. The one I leased in 2022 was also over $35k MSRP.

This is the range and charging rate for the new Bolt with the Ultium battery pack. Price starts at $29k for the LT, $33k for the RS. It has better specs and it's a good urban/suburban commute vehicle. At heart though, it's an EV econobox with a choppy ride due to the short wheelbase.

 

[Wood1Dennis]

Hydrogen ICE - That will be the answer, at least for big rigs.

https://www.cummins.com/engines/hydrogen

 

[woodgeek]

This is the range and charging rate for the new Bolt with the Ultium battery pack. Price starts at $29k for the LT, $33k for the RS. It has better specs and it's a good urban/suburban commute vehicle. At heart though, it's an EV econobox with a choppy ride due to the short wheelbase.

I was confused by the use of the word 'is'. There is the Bolt that was, and the Bolt that will be. But there is no Bolt that is.

TIL that the Boltium is supposed to launch in January 2026. But when I went to the GM site to order/buy one, it said none were currently available. :/

 

[EbS-P]

Teslas Q1 numbers will be interesting. It will reflect consumers sentiment towards EVs in a subsidy free economy. It would not surprise me one bit if the 2026 Bolt gets pushed back. What is the volume Ultium vehicles now?

The new Nissan Leaf will be interesting to see if it sells well. The Kona EV does not seem to be popular.

 

[begreen]

TIL that the Boltium is supposed to launch in January 2026. But when I went to the GM site to order/buy one, it said none were currently available. :/

Yes, they are now listing it as a 2027 to become available in "early 2026". The 2027 designation is confusing, especially if it comes out in the next few months. I also see that if you add the tech package and super cruise, this pumps the car's price up by around $4k.

 

[EbS-P]

Yes, they are now listing it as a 2027 to become available in "early 2026". The 2027 designation is confusing, especially if it comes out in the next few months. I also see that if you add the tech package and super cruise, this pumps the car's price up by around $4k.

I’d like to spend a couple hundred miles “super cruising” before I drop any money on it.

 

[begreen]

I’d like to spend a couple hundred miles “super cruising” before I drop any money on it.

The reviews I've read say that it does quite well on major highways and expressways. Not of great value in a smaller car if it is mainly used around town.

 

[EbS-P]

Not of great value in a smaller car if it is mainly used around town.

As someone who has FSD I don’t use around town that much. Like 3 times a month. It doesn’t have my full trust in town. So it’s more works to baby sit it than it is to drive routes I already know. Maybe if was in a hurry and put it in “hurry” mode where it will drive after than the fastest traffic by just a bit and let it do the “Tesla weave” on its own it would reduce my anxiety about it. It just does a better job driving aggressively.

Highway and stop and go traffic is where self driving is most useful for me.

 

[begreen]

Our car has advanced cruise control. Does full stop in gridlocked traffic. Good enough for me. I definitely believe a driver should have hands on the wheel when the car is in motion.

 

[hobbyheater]

EV electric vehicle . ICE self driving vehicle ?

 

[bogieb]

EV electric vehicle . ICE self driving vehicle ?

ICE = Internal Combustion Engine (gas, diesel).

 

[Wood1Dennis]

ICE = Internal Combustion Engine (gas, diesel).

ICE = Internal Combustion Engine (gas, diesel, hydrogen).
Don't forget about hydrogen. The internal combustion engine has a place in a near zero emissions future.

 

[EbS-P]

The internal combustion engine has a place in a near zero emissions future.

Only see heavy duty off road applications. Maybe a few heavy haul onroad. Though I think they would LOVE never to have to shift and have max torque at zero RPM. And I’m a realist. This isn’t happening before 2040. Maybe by 2050.

 

[woodgeek]

Only see heavy duty off road applications. Maybe a few heavy haul onroad. Though I think they would LOVE never to have to shift and have max torque at zero RPM. And I’m a realist. This isn’t happening before 2040. Maybe by 2050.

I agree. Once you've solved H2 mobile storage, you use a fuel cell stack and an electric drive train (with a buffer battery). 3X the efficiency than H2 ICE.

 

[woodgeek]

2025 EV sales figures are in:

Snapshot electric vehicle sales in 2025 vs 2024:

• Global: 20.7 million, +20%
• China: 12.9 million, +17%
• Europe: 4.3 million, +33%
• North America: 1.8 million, -4%
• Rest of World: 1.7 million, +48%

Not too shabby. For comparison, TOTAL US new car sales in 2025 were 16.8M.

EU figure is a rebound from being lower last year when Germany dropped their EV incentives.

Figures are BEVs + PHEVs

 

[bholler]

Amazon here drives cargo vans that are electric. Many many of them.
Not sure if that's the type of cargo van you were referring to?

They are rivians and they are only available as fleet vehicles at this point. But it won't be long and my current Chevy van only has about 50k on it so I should have another 5 years or so with it. I will need a 1 ton van with about 200 mile range while loaded with about a ton of equipment and with ladders ontop. I occasionally do further than that in a day but could stop to charge on those few occasions

 

[DBoon]

My local HVAC guy just purchased (about 6 months ago) a Mercedes eSprinter large cargo/van truck. He loves it. He has the same need as you (local driving). He lives in a town with a municipal electric co-op that gets power from NYPA at cost and the local co-op sold it for 4 cents/kWh (all-in, kWh cost plus distribution cost) a few years back. It's probably a little higher now, but still a bargain.

 

[EbS-P]

My local HVAC guy just purchased (about 6 months ago) a Mercedes Sprinter large cargo/van truck. He loves it. He has the same need as you (local driving). He lives in a town with a municipal electric co-op that gets power from NYPA at cost and the local co-op sold it for 4 cents/kWh (all-in, kWh cost plus distribution cost) a few years back. It's probably a little higher now, but still a bargain.

They were dumping inventory eSprinters at 50% of the sticker price. I wish a knew more about the Mercedes EV tech. I like my diesel sprinter but maintenance costs are really high. $300 oil changes and a fuel filter that the dealer charges $300 just for the part. Both are listed 20k miles or 24 months. And the transmission gets a whole new plastic pan with filter when it’s due. It’s about $1200 for that job. So your 40k regular service can be $2500. Makes the eSprinter look really good.

 

[salecker]

For my use case a hybrid is the logical next step. It's just that no one makes a hybrid pickup. It's cold enough here, -30c (-22f) this morning, that the waste heat from an ICE is advantageous for warming the passenger compartment, making a hybrid more attractive. A plug in hybrid would be great, could plug it in and run pure EV most of the summer, relying on solar for charging, and mostly the ICE for heat and tractive power in winter.

Look at Dodges new offering in hybrid pickups

 

[EbS-P]

Look at Dodges new offering in hybrid pickups

Ever ever buy the first model year of new design!

 

[EbS-P]

2025 EV sales figures are in:

Snapshot electric vehicle sales in 2025 vs 2024:

• Global: 20.7 million, +20%
• China: 12.9 million, +17%
• Europe: 4.3 million, +33%
• North America: 1.8 million, -4%
• Rest of World: 1.7 million, +48%

Not too shabby. For comparison, TOTAL US new car sales in 2025 were 16.8M.

EU figure is a rebound from being lower last year when Germany dropped their EV incentives.

Figures are BEVs + PHEVs

Well the kneecapped it before they came off the assembly line.

You'd Better Act Fast if You Want A 2027 Chevy Bolt: Production Will Last Just 18 Months

The affordable electric hatchback is only just heading to dealerships now, but its return will be brief as GM prepares the Fairfax plant to build two SUVS.

www.caranddriver.com