EV vs ICE

[DBoon]

It’s the driving style that instant torque and lots of power encourages.

My experience is that it is the driving style that really kills your tread life on EV tires, much more so than just heavier weight. I went to town on accelerating my Bolt because I could, and once I went through the first set of tires in 25,000 miles or so I learned to lay off the acceleration and my tire life has gotten pretty close to what I would get with a non-EV and a comparable low-rolling resistance tire. I'm sure weight takes some life off as well, but it's more the torque than the weight in my experience.

 

[EbS-P]

My experience is that it is the driving style that really kills your tread life on EV tires, much more so than just heavier weight. I went to town on accelerating my Bolt because I could, and once I went through the first set of tires in 25,000 miles or so I learned to lay off the acceleration and my tire life has gotten pretty close to what I would get with a non-EV and a comparable low-rolling resistance tire. I'm sure weight takes some life off as well, but it's more the torque than the weight in my experience.

Exactly. My first set made it 15k!

 

[DBoon]

Yeah, it's hard not to enjoy the fun until you have to pay the bill for it.

 

[EbS-P]

Yeah, it's hard not to enjoy the fun until you have to pay the bill for it.

I wish I didn’t care. I see big fast cars/suv with Michelin Pilot sport that are near bars and think was that $450 tire worth it?

Id like to try them out sometime. They have a new Pilot EV tire.

 

[stoveliker]

The EV tires are more expensive - precisely to limit the higher wear.

Btw, the behavior argument. The same thing was likely said during the development of cars over the last 125 years.
But each time we got used to faster acceleration (0-60 in how many seconds now, compare that to the cars around when you were 5...). So each time that becomes the new normal.
The same will happen here. When (not if) EVs become majority, the majority of people will take curves faster.
Micro plastic (rubber is a polymer) pollution will go up.

Statistics say ev tires wear 20-30% faster. That's what the average driver does. And that will be the new normal.

 

[EbS-P]

The EV tires are more expensive - precisely to limit the higher wear.

Btw, the behavior argument. The same thing was likely said during the development of cars over the last 125 years.
But each time we got used to faster acceleration (0-60 in how many seconds now, compare that to the cars around when you were 5...). So each time that becomes the new normal.
The same will happen here. When (not if) EVs become majority, the majority of people will take curves faster.
Micro plastic (rubber is a polymer) pollution will go up.

Statistics say ev tires wear 20-30% faster. That's what the average driver does. And that will be the new normal.

I will agree with that. So what we need is slower EVs with a delayed torque ramp. Tesla calls is “chill” mode. I tried it for a month. It limits power to much and has no “kick down “
I don’t like it. I can do the same with my right foot and have all the power I want when I want it.

 

[DBoon]

I can do the same with my right foot and have all the power I want when I want it.

Yes, agreed. But 90%+ of drivers will never make any connection between excessive acceleration and reduced tire wear (or between excessive acceleration and reduced gas mileage), so a torque-reducing mode is probably the right thing for the broad market.

 

[woodgeek]

When folks talk about particulate pollution, I always wonder what the particles are made of. I am not convinced that micro-rubber (and carbon black mixed in) is as bad as diesel PM by a long shot. And I think its biodegradable.

But then I'm not convinced by all the microplastic stuff either. I guess I'm entering my curmudgeon mode.

 

[stoveliker]

Wear and Tear of Tyres: A Stealthy Source of Microplastics in the Environment - PMC

Wear and tear from tyres significantly contributes to the flow of (micro-)plastics into the environment. This paper compiles the fragmented knowledge on tyre wear and tear characteristics, amounts of particles emitted, pathways in the environment, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Car tyres shed a quarter of all microplastics in the environment – urgent action is needed

Every year, billions of vehicles worldwide shed an estimated 6 million tonnes of tyre fragments. These tiny flakes of plastic, generated by the wear and tear of normal driving, eventually accumulate in the soil, in rivers and lakes, and even in our food. Researchers in South China recently found...

www.port.ac.uk

The latter one contain multiple links to other pieces that mention papers.

20-30% larger wear (shedding) of something that is the source of 25% of micro plastics, is significant even if numbers can be debated.

 

[woodgeek]

TIL tire rubber is not biodegradable due to its synthetic content.

 

[begreen]

I will agree with that. So what we need is slower EVs with a delayed torque ramp. Tesla calls is “chill” mode. I tried it for a month. It limits power to much and has no “kick down “
I don’t like it. I can do the same with my right foot and have all the power I want when I want it.

Our car has an ECO mode with a lower acceleration profile that also limits the car to rear motor only. We usually drive in this mode. There are still gobs of acceleration for quick freeway entry, etc., just not neck-breaking.

 

[stoveliker]

We also have an eco mode on our (ICE) Rav4. Of course not "as eco" as for an EV. Then normal, and also a sporty mode.
We always run in the eco mode, and that's perfectly adequate. (And that's "eco-traction" on an ICE rather than an electric instant torque vehicle...)

The appeal or utility of all "modes" is subjective, and depends on what is considered as normal.
If the normal would not shift, we'd be better off (in this particular aspect, in others we'd of course be far worse off).

 

[EbS-P]

We also have an eco mode on our (ICE) Rav4. Of course not "as eco" as for an EV. Then normal, and also a sporty mode.
We always run in the eco mode, and that's perfectly adequate. (And that's "eco-traction" on an ICE rather than an electric instant torque vehicle...)

The appeal or utility of all "modes" is subjective, and depends on what is considered as normal.
If the normal would not shift, we'd be better off (in this particular aspect, in others we'd of course be far worse off).

Most eco modes just choose lower RPM shift points. I doubt any remap throttle position or cut power but they might.

 

[stoveliker]

Most eco modes just choose lower RPM shift points. I doubt any remap throttle position or cut power but they might.

which directly (and negatively) affects the torque that is related to tire wear.