Everything Drolet Tundra - Heatmax...

[Socratic Monologue]

Had to make my own. Scrounged through my scrap metal pile. Cant believe i didnt think of it earlier. Thanks for the idea!

Hey, that's pretty nice!

 

[Socratic Monologue]

I've been spending a lot of time with the T2 the last couple days. I realize that the radiant heat loss through the glass is enormous. My furnace room (2 car garage size, insulated) is 5F warmer than the first floor of the (3000 sq ft -- yeah, big) house (we duct heat to the first floor only, mostly).

I learned that some wood stoves/furnaces have IR coating on the glass. Tested with a multitester, and the T2 does not (our Hearthstone does). I'd like to cut down that radiant heat. So, installing IR coated glass is an option. Standing in front of the Hearthstone (we sit on the raised hearth in front of it fairly comfortably) is a completely different experience than standing in front of the Tundra (pants start smoking...).

I also thought about eliminating the glass entirely -- at least as a trial. Can I temporarily put a sheet of thin steel over the glass on the outside (it could be loosely hung over the lip on the top of the door), or would this reflect too much heat back through the glass? If it worked really well I'd consider replacing the glass with a sheet of stainless steel.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

I've been spending a lot of time with the T2 the last couple days. I realize that the radiant heat loss through the glass is enormous.

Same... on the plus side my first floor feels as if I ha e heated floors.

But, yea standing in front you get blasted, however both of my Fire Chief stoves also radiated a ton of heat from the front, not at this level, but close.

 

[brenndatomu]

Can I temporarily put a sheet of thin steel over the glass on the outside (it could be loosely hung over the lip on the top of the door),

Bingo, loosely hung/removable...I tried that...kept the furnace room cooler, but didn't make the house upstairs any warmer. I ended up making a hot air collection hood of sorts from the ductwork parts that were laying around...ducted to the blower housing via 3" flexible aluminum duct pipe (dryer/vent hood hose?) seemed to help a bit...maybe?

 

[Gearhead660]

I've been spending a lot of time with the T2 the last couple days. I realize that the radiant heat loss through the glass is enormous. My furnace room (2 car garage size, insulated) is 5F warmer than the first floor of the (3000 sq ft -- yeah, big) house (we duct heat to the first floor only, mostly).

I learned that some wood stoves/furnaces have IR coating on the glass. Tested with a multitester, and the T2 does not (our Hearthstone does). I'd like to cut down that radiant heat. So, installing IR coated glass is an option. Standing in front of the Hearthstone (we sit on the raised hearth in front of it fairly comfortably) is a completely different experience than standing in front of the Tundra (pants start smoking...).

I also thought about eliminating the glass entirely -- at least as a trial. Can I temporarily put a sheet of thin steel over the glass on the outside (it could be loosely hung over the lip on the top of the door), or would this reflect too much heat back through the glass? If it worked really well I'd consider replacing the glass with a sheet of stainless steel.

I have mine in the basement and like the warm floors. Was thinking about all that radiant heat too....

 

[Woodythewoodhunter]

Looking for some insight on lack of heat coming from my Drolet Tundra 2. Installed basement (below grade, uninsulated) heating via ducts to 1000 sq ft. main floor. Burning mostly fir with 5 - 15% moisture content. Seems to put out limited heat via ducts, yet fire is burning hot. Also seems like blower is cycling more than it needs to? Difficulty getting the temps above 18 C on main floor when outside temperature is only -5 C.

To be honest - not even warming up the temperature of the basement that much.

Looking for insights - heat going up chimney? cold air return issue? system unbalanced? I dunno.... suggestions welcome.

 

[brenndatomu]

. Installed basement (below grade, uninsulated) heating via ducts to 1000 sq ft. main floor.

This is where you are losing a bunch of heat...my best guess would be the return air is pretty cold too...both huge strikes against good performance.
EDIT: Maybe I mis-read this...is the basement un-insulated, or the ducts run through un-insulated (crawl?)space?

 

[Socratic Monologue]

I agree with bren; sounds like the Tundra has to first warm up 1000sq ft uninsulated basement before it can even get going on heating the upstairs. That may never happen. I'm not sure what others do, but I wouldn't run it without a return air duct to the living space.

Looking for insights - heat going up chimney?

If you get a manometer and a digital flue thermometer, you could figure out if this is an issue. Both are cheap and simple to install.

 

[Gearhead660]

I agree with bren; sounds like the Tundra has to first warm up 1000sq ft uninsulated basement before it can even get going on heating the upstairs. That may never happen. I'm not sure what others do, but I wouldn't run it without a return air duct to the living space.

If you get a manometer and a digital flue thermometer, you could figure out if this is an issue. Both are cheap and simple to install.

I have mine in the basement and it needs to get warm down there before it starts to do a decent job of heating the upstairs. Also like others mentioned, need warmer return air, insulate ducts if longer or going thru unheated space.

 

[Woodythewoodhunter]

This is where you are losing a bunch of heat...my best guess would be the return air is pretty cold too...both huge strikes against good performance.
EDIT: Maybe I mis-read this...is the basement un-insulated, or the ducts run through un-insulated (crawl?)space?

Thanks for the response. Basement is un-insulated, below grade (I have sealed off as much air flow as I can, including insulating the rim joists. That area has a couple of ducts blowing warm air into it, but mostly heated radiantly by the furnace itself. All the ducts for heating the main floor run through here, un-insulated.

Ya, I think i'm loosing a ton of heat through the basement, but actually, when it's been running steadily for a few days, it's actually pretty warm and easy to heat.

Maybe a bit part of it is until the entire basement warms up, the cold air return is just taking too much to heat up?

 

[Woodythewoodhunter]

I agree with bren; sounds like the Tundra has to first warm up 1000sq ft uninsulated basement before it can even get going on heating the upstairs. That may never happen. I'm not sure what others do, but I wouldn't run it without a return air duct to the living space.

If you get a manometer and a digital flue thermometer, you could figure out if this is an issue. Both are cheap and simple to install.

hmm. interesting. I do have a grate in the main floor that is open to the basement - i've been experimenting with covering it with a rug/uncovering it. But it's not ducted - just a grate. Do you think that ducting in a return would help return warm air to the intake?

I don't think it's legal to attach a cold air return to the tundra in Canada - but I can return it to the basement. I wonder if I would have to put a fan in it to push it down.

 

[Woodythewoodhunter]

I have mine in the basement and it needs to get warm down there before it starts to do a decent job of heating the upstairs. Also like others mentioned, need warmer return air, insulate ducts if longer or going thru unheated space.

Huh. maybe that's it. need warmer return air. so I either have to wait a long time before the mass of the basement warms up, or try to return warmer air. How's your warmer return air set-up?

 

[Gearhead660]

Huh. maybe that's it. need warmer return air. so I either have to wait a long time before the mass of the basement warms up, or try to return warmer air. How's your warmer return air set-up?

Currently it is pulling right off the floor. Planning to run a duct up to the ceiling to pull warmer air. I am still in the process of getting the quirks out and doing all the fun mods. Not sure if your basement is a large open area, but mine is in a smaller "utility" room.

 

[brenndatomu]

hmm. interesting. I do have a grate in the main floor that is open to the basement - i've been experimenting with covering it with a rug/uncovering it. But it's not ducted - just a grate. Do you think that ducting in a return would help return warm air to the intake?

I don't think it's legal to attach a cold air return to the tundra in Canada - but I can return it to the basement. I wonder if I would have to put a fan in it to push it down.

Can you pull return air off the basment ceiling, instead of the floor? Can be a 10* difference between the two...

 

[Socratic Monologue]

hmm. interesting. I do have a grate in the main floor that is open to the basement - i've been experimenting with covering it with a rug/uncovering it. But it's not ducted - just a grate. Do you think that ducting in a return would help return warm air to the intake?

I don't think it's legal to attach a cold air return to the tundra in Canada - but I can return it to the basement. I wonder if I would have to put a fan in it to push it down.

I don't know Canada's codes at all, but page 8 of the T2 manual says a return air duct is an 'authorized installation'. I think here in the US there is some code credence given to the instructions from the manufacturer.

Yes, I think a return duct would help -- mine is even insulated, since I don't want to warm my furnace room any more than I have to. When your living space is at, say, 65F and your basement is at 55F, having a return air duct will allow heated air to be delivered to the living area that is 10F warmer than it would be without the return duct.

If you want the basement to be heated, I would think that insulating it would make sense, if it is possible.

 

[Woodythewoodhunter]

I think i've had some luck with getting better temperatures from the problem I walk talking about above with a very simple mod. I basically suspended a old towner fan horizontal in the basement, right up by the floor joists (ceiling of basement, somewhat close to a grate), pointing towards the floor. Stiring the warm/cold air up in the basement seems to have helped with the intake temperatures - as the intake is right where the cold air would have sat, and now hopefully the fan is stirring up temperatures in basement a bit. cost = $0 for a bit of an improvement.

 

[Socratic Monologue]

Shifting gears on the discussion: can someone explain the combustion air routing on the T2, please?

So far I understand that the two square inlets under the door feed the secondaries (it looks like all the tubes on the top of the firebox are plumbed together, but I thought I read somewhere that the front tube(s) are airwash tubes and are are considered primary air...). I also see the doghouse is a simple tube to the outside under the door (I wish that fed more air...).

Where does the air from the main damper enter the firebox? And what feeds the hole in the back of the firebox, about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the firebox?

Trying to get this beast to follow my orders, but it is a bit recalcitrant. More so, anyway, than the HotBlast I replaced, which did whatever I wanted as long as I kept feeding it...

 

[brenndatomu]

Shifting gears on the discussion: can someone explain the combustion air routing on the T2, please?

So far I understand that the two square inlets under the door feed the secondaries (it looks like all the tubes on the top of the firebox are plumbed together, but I thought I read somewhere that the front tube(s) are airwash tubes and are are considered primary air...). I also see the doghouse is a simple tube to the outside under the door (I wish that fed more air...).

Where does the air from the main damper enter the firebox? And what feeds the hole in the back of the firebox, about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the firebox?

Trying to get this beast to follow my orders, but it is a bit recalcitrant. More so, anyway, than the HotBlast I replaced, which did whatever I wanted as long as I kept feeding it...

You have it basically figured out, the two (1.5"?) square holes under each side of the front of the firebox are your secondary air holes...they run in a tube on each side, under the firebox, to the back...and are connected to the square tubes that are clear in the back corners (vertically, just a corner sticking out of the firebrick) which are feeding the square tubes up top, that the actual secondary air diffusor tubes are connected into...and the baffle lays between. There is also the little "boost air" tube with a 1/4" hole in the center rear (about 4-5" up) that is fed by the same secondary air intake too (I think)
The primary air all comes in the damper/flapper...either through the round hole in the center when closed, or through the larger rectangular holes under the flapper when it is open...this feeds in/down/and around and comes out the gap at the very inside of the firebox opening, right at the top (open door, look up)...this also is your airwash, as the cool air falls in a thin "sheet" down the inside of the glass, and then rolls into the base of the fire.
There is also another 1/4" "boost air" hole, under the bottom of the firebox door opening, right in the center, inside the back of that round tube that sticks out a bit. That has about the same affect as you blowing on the fire. If you ever have minimal hot coals left, and want to do a matchless relight, put the coals right in front of this hole and pile a bit of kindlin there, or "splitter trash", and its off to the races! Always keep the ashes clear of this hole.
Hope that makes sense...this is how the T1 was anyways, and I'm fairly certain the T2 is the same...someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Gearhead660]

You have it basically figured out, the two (1.5"?) square holes under each side of the front of the firebox are your secondary air holes...they run in a tube on each side, under the firebox, to the back...and are connected to the square tubes that are clear in the back corners (vertically, just a corner sticking out of the firebrick) which are feeding the square tubes up top, that the actual secondary air diffusor tubes are connected into...and the baffle lays between. There is also the little "boost air" tube with a 1/4" hole in the center rear (about 4-5" up) that is fed by the same secondary air intake too (I think)
The primary air all comes in the damper/flapper...either through the round hole in the center when closed, or through the larger rectangular holes under the flapper when it is open...this feeds in/down/and around and comes out the gap at the very inside of the firebox opening, right at the top (open door, look up)...this also is your airwash, as the cool air falls in a thin "sheet" down the inside of the glass, and then rolls into the base of the fire.
There is also another 1/4" "boost air" hole, under the bottom of the firebox door opening, right in the center, inside the back of that round tube that sticks out a bit. That has about the same affect as you blowing on the fire. If you ever have minimal hot coals left, and want to do a matchless relight, put the coals right in front of this hole and pile a bit of kindlin there, or "splitter trash", and its off to the races! Always keep the ashes clear of this hole.
Hope that makes sense...this is how the T1 was anyways, and I'm fairly certain the T2 is the same...someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

That is my understanding of the air also.

 

[Socratic Monologue]

That helps a lot, brenndatomu -- thank you!

So far I've improved things using two typical mods -- throttling the secondaries a bit (I made two slider doors for those square holes), and the finish nail damper mod (which I'm going to try to improve on once SBI sends me the damper door I ordered to cut some holes in...).

I've never read of a blower mod to help that front boost air a bit. Hmmm...

Oh, and I hung a sheet of metal over the door -- I like it. The house isn't warmer that I can tell, but the furnace room is a couple degrees cooler, and the coaling is slightly improved (all the coals are hot, rather than a bottom layer of charcoal). I have a piece of IR coated glass for the door on order that I'll install soon; I hope that has a similar effect.

 

[brenndatomu]

I've never read of a blower mod to help that front boost air a bit. Hmmm...

I'm not sure how much it would help, except at the beginning maybe...careful there, some air "injected" there could create some pretty intense temps! (think forge-like temps!)

 

[Gearhead660]

I'm not sure how much it would help, except at the beginning maybe...careful there, some air "injected" there could create some pretty intense temps! (think forge-like temps!)

I have found that a nail just thick enough to hold the damper open a crack is enough. If I want a longer burn when it's not as cold, I remove the nail.

 

[brenndatomu]

Paper clip is all it took on mine...on the rare occasion that it was even needed...

 

[Case1030]

Tundra is gonna get a workout this upcoming week. Who else is getting this cold blast of fridged syberian air?

 

[Gearhead660]

Tundra is gonna get a workout this upcoming week. Who else is getting this cold blast of fridged syberian air?View attachment 253036

Getting some of that here early next week also. Just not as cold... only single digits at night.