I'm just looking to only make heat in the insulated pole barn where the EKO is located. Can I get by with 1 Taco 007, 15 PSI pressure relief, air remover, danfoss (boiler return protection) and pipe a simple loop with 2 small unit heaters (water to air exchangers with fan, Modine looking type but not Modines). The EKO will idle some because the heaters will probably only pull about 25K BTU each. How far must I use black iron or copper? I may keep these heaters close to the EKO on the floor and was hoping to utilize some Pex. My interior walls (OSB) are up but I left some of them tacked loose to allow for wiring (after I can get some heat going) so I probably won't mount anything permanent until this heating season is over. New home should be done in April or May and will have to trench lines to it later after the builder is long gone but before we landscape. Just need a simple way to get some heat going right now. Next short term plans include sidearm with electric (or maybe propane) water heater for DHW in the pole barn but also to serve as freeze protection and UPS/deep cycle power loss protection. If anybody has a simple drawing that would be great or maybe just some do's and don'ts. Am I better off sticking a used woodstove in as a temp solution? I was hoping a simple loop would only take a day or two to assemble.
Example of the simplest EKO piping install
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For me the near-boiler piping took me a couple days of fiddle farting to complete. It's not overly difficult and I'm sure experienced plumbers can crack it out in a few hours.
If I were you I would use black pipe for your bypass loop and then run pex from there to your heat loads (since this is temporary). I find the 007 is almost "too big" for my heat exchanger loop. I run about 40 total feet of 1" pex-al-pex and my flow is much too high. You may want a smaller pump.
I've never heard of anyone using a 15psi relief. Should be 30....and don't forget your expansion tank...or a place to fill from...and a vent to release air as you're filling...
If I were you I would use black pipe for your bypass loop and then run pex from there to your heat loads (since this is temporary). I find the 007 is almost "too big" for my heat exchanger loop. I run about 40 total feet of 1" pex-al-pex and my flow is much too high. You may want a smaller pump.
I've never heard of anyone using a 15psi relief. Should be 30....and don't forget your expansion tank...or a place to fill from...and a vent to release air as you're filling...
stee6043 said:
You're right it's 30 PSI and Menards carries the expansion tank too plus a have a pressure/temp gauge also to add. Thanks for the info. Will try the black pipe and see where I get. I don't have a pipe threader but maybe the thing to do is get all the valves, hardware tight and have someone cut the black pipe to fit. Haven't priced copper but I originally thought that might be easier to work with. I will need pex-al-pex to go to the unit heaters since this is high temp correct? Any advice is appreciated.
Yes, pex-al-pex, but not for the temp range. Instead, you need the barrier pex for just that - the barrier, so than oxygen does not permeate into your piping causing corrosion in the lines and pumps and boiler. I plumbed my near boiler piping myself using all off-the shelf fittings and nipples of various sizes. You will find you need unions in places to allow for assembly. Lay it all out dry and then assemble with pipe dope and thread tape. It's a real learning experience!
Home depot will custom cut any sizes of pipe for the cost of the pipe only,and down to 8" so do not buy any 12" nipples,also you can find partial pipe lengths laying around the full length pipe reck on the floor look for these deals too...good luck..Dave
Grainger.com is your friend for any and all black pipe fittings and nipples you can't find at the big box stores!
It can be this simple. My EKO has a 140F snap disc thermostat on the top of the boiler. It allows the boiler pump to run only when the boiler is 140F or higher. it's a very simple and effective return temperature protection. It commonly used on gas fired boilers of Euro design, like entry level Viessmanns.
The boiler is in the primary loop, use 1-1/2 threaded iron pipe. The tees have 1" branches. The first set of closely spaced tees feed the unit heaters. Adapt to pex right out of the circ pump for the unit heaters.
Reverse return piping will assure equal flow to both unit heaters. With some practice you may be able to build a fire to the size of the heat load. A buffer tank really smooth things out, but this piping will work just fine.
hr
The boiler is in the primary loop, use 1-1/2 threaded iron pipe. The tees have 1" branches. The first set of closely spaced tees feed the unit heaters. Adapt to pex right out of the circ pump for the unit heaters.
Reverse return piping will assure equal flow to both unit heaters. With some practice you may be able to build a fire to the size of the heat load. A buffer tank really smooth things out, but this piping will work just fine.
hr
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I would double check the PSI of the relief valve. The new manual calls for a 30 psi pressure relief valve, but the data tag on the back of my Eko 25 say's it is rated to 1.8 bar and that converts to 26 PSI; I am using 25 PSI valves in my system.
I have close to a similar setup as I use a Modine on a bypass loop in my shop. Also a Termovar for return water protection. A strap-on line voltage aquastat on the after Termovar return to boiler set at 155: turns on the boiler pump at 155 and off at whatever the differential is. This could be set lower. I also have a line voltage thermostat controlling the Modine fan, along with a master on-off switch. If the boiler is operating, turn the switch on and the Modine thermostat keeps the shop at the set temp. Just have to remember to turn the switch off if the boiler is not operating. Could use a dpdt line voltage relay on the boiler aquastat, one pole turning the circ on/off, and other pole energizing the Modine thermostat in sync with boiler circ on/off.
Is the 2nd circ really necessary for a temp solution? I've read the primary/secondary sticky and understand the principle but I'm guessing I would need a flow control circ (integral check valve) for the load side? I didn't think it would overheat the building by running hot water thru the heater with fans off but I guess that could be a problem when it warms up. What circs do I need? Sounds like a plain taco 007 work for the boiler loop but I would need a lower GPM flow control for the load side. Correct?
I more question about pex fittings. 1 time use crimps, hose clamps, sharkbite? What do you guys use? I also had an idea about using a block heater (cylinder type that connects to heater hose on car, tractors,etc.) for freeze protection since I have no DHW in barn or backup heat. These are usually 1000-1500W unless I cold find a small one.
I have used high temperature water hose, also, for where I need very flexible connections. 5/8" and 3/4" are readily available; larger is quite expensive. Just use a hose barb and clamp.
husker said:
Sharkbites won't work with pex-al-pex. But there are compression fittings that do work. Dave at Cozy Heat can set you up...
what about using just 1 circ with danfoss and running heat to the heaters all the time even with vans off?
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