Existing fire place, 36 x 32 opening: should we go with insert or free standing?

[Skyeward]

Hi Everyone! this is my first post on here. I have been burning wood for years in rental homes, but we just bought a house, so I have been reading lots of threads and getting some useful info. I am posting to get some advice on what type/model/size of wood burning device would be best for our needs. The details of our space are below. My main questions are:
1) Insert vs freestanding: does one offer any advantage over the other in this situation? I don't really care about looks, just want the most efficient heat source we can get, without having to use a blower very much (or at all)
2) Models I'm looking at and have gotten quotes for include: regency i2450 and i2500, BK Princess insert and free standing. Would these be good choices, or is there something else I should consider?

Thank you!

Home specs:
built in 1950's
sq ft: ~1700, standard 8ft ceilings
style: single story ranch house
*insulation is not great. We will be upgrading attic and crawlspace insulation in the next few weeks, or possibly next year
Heating Goals:
We would like to use the wood burning stove/insert as the primary heat source for ~ 1200 sq ft of the home,
which includes the living room (where woodstove will be), Kitchen, dining area, and 2 bedrooms, so burning wood most days during the winter months. There is a "breezeway" (enclosed with windows and brick, but not insulated as far as i know) off the other side of the kitchen which connects to an addition/converted garage. We have a mini-split on that end of the house that will cover heat and cooling on that side. We may experiment with leaving the breezeway doors open to allow heat to move through, but the priority for heating from the wood stove is on the end of the house where the stove will be located.

Fireplace details:
measurements:



Layout: (ceiling fan in Living Room)

Fireplace/chimney Located in 19' x 13' living room on one end of the house. connected to kitchen/dining area and 2 bedrooms by 48" x 80" opening.

Damper:

Chimney:

 

[begreen]

Looks like there's room for an insert. The clearance requirements to the mantel will be a determinant and the hearth may need a little extending. The Princess insert would be better, the freestanding stove has the thermostat on the back and no published clearances for fireplace installing.

 

[Dix]

Welcome to the Forums!

Get as big of a firebox in there as you can. Even in NC, you won't regret it.

Get started on firewood NOW Do not wait. It has to be seasoned, really seasoned, not sopping wet.

My gut is telling me, we have another Sistah here, correct me if I am wrong, please

 

[EbS-P]

One advantage of an insert is con can insulate around it keeping the heat inside instead of heat the exterior chimney.

I went the stove route only for athletics. We have to look at it with no fire for much longer than with a fire.

My stove is 1.7 cu ft. It heats 2000 sq ft down to about 25 but it needs reloaded every 4 hours when it’s cold. You don’t need a monster.

I have an insert downstairs. Drolet 1800i. It works well and was the cheapest decent option I could find. Eye balling you may be on the short side for chimney height. If really considering the BK Princess double check it’s minimum chimney height.

I can burn two cords of a mix of pine and poplar. Both can dry in a single March to November period. Oak takes at least two summers. Maybe more can’t tell yet it’s buried in my stack.

Checkout the Osborn inspire 2000. Worth the small base. https://www.osburn-mfg.com/en/products/wood-stoves/inspire-wood-stove/

 

[Ashful]

1200 sq ft in NC = very easy to overheat the joint with a stove. Begreen’s recommendation for Princess seems good. If going non-cat, think small like Ebs-P, and plan on more frequent reloads (if even needed).

 

[EbS-P]

1200 sq ft in NC = very easy to overheat the joint with a stove. Begreen’s recommendation for Princess seems good. If going non-cat, think small like Ebs-P, and plan on more frequent reloads (if even needed).

And I have 1000 sq ft of very open concept. And then another 1000 down a single center hall way with no door headers from open concept to hallway. I get a good convection loop down the hallway.

Is the only connection from the fireplace room the double door? If so that room will heat up quickly

 

[Skyeward]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

@begreen yes clearance height to mantle could be an issue.
Does anyone know what the height of the top of the door on the Princess??
In the clearances chart it says “ 20” from top of door to mantel”, but no where in the specs can I find the actual door height.

Also, didn’t know about the thermostat issue. Is it mounted on the front on the insert?

@EbS-P insulation around it sounds like a good idea, especially with the chimney/fireplace being exterior. To be clear, you’re talking about insulating the walls of the fireplace, behind the shroud?

As for chimney height, yes I need to measure the upper half above the roof. Minimum rec for princess and the regency is 15ft. Are there inserts/stove that can deal with shorter chimneys or is that pretty standard?

@Dix dont worry, I’ve got plenty of wood! I had to move it all over here from the last house, cause I sure as hell wasn’t gonna start all over.

 

[Skyeward]

And I have 1000 sq ft of very open concept. And then another 1000 down a single center hall way with no door headers from open concept to hallway. I get a good convection loop down the hallway.

Is the only connection from the fireplace room the double door? If so that room will heat up quickly

Yes only connection is that 48” opening. Maybe a fan near that opening to would help circulate heat? I’ve heard of actually having fans on the floor, pointing INTO the firebox room, to pull cool air out of other rooms, getting sort of a convection loop going. Does that really work?

 

[begreen]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

@begreen yes clearance height to mantle could be an issue.
Does anyone know what the height of the top of the door on the Princess??
In the clearances chart it says “ 20” from top of door to mantel”, but no where in the specs can I find the actual door height.

Also, didn’t know about the thermostat issue. Is it mounted on the front on the insert?

@EbS-P insulation around it sounds like a good idea, especially with the chimney/fireplace being exterior. To be clear, you’re talking about insulating the walls of the fireplace, behind the shroud?

As for chimney height, yes I need to measure the upper half above the roof. Minimum rec for princess and the regency is 15ft. Are there inserts/stove that can deal with shorter chimneys or is that pretty standard?

@Dix dont worry, I’ve got plenty of wood! I had to move it all over here from the last house, cause I sure as hell wasn’t gonna start all over.

It's not just the clearance height to the mantel shelf, but to the side trim as well.

Yes, the thermostat on the Princess insert is on the front.

The Regency probably has a chimney height requirement of 13', but it looks like you may have 15' so that may not be an issue.

For best heat output, request an insulated block-off plate be installed in the damper area to seal it off around the liner.

The room will get hot. A table or box fan set on the kitchen floor, blowing cooler air into the stove room will help mitigate this issue.

 

[EbS-P]

Yes only connection is that 48” opening. Maybe a fan near that opening to would help circulate heat? I’ve heard of actually having fans on the floor, pointing INTO the firebox room, to pull cool air out of other rooms, getting sort of a convection loop going. Does that really work?

Bedrooms will be 60-65(depending on how cold it is outside)kitchen 70-65 and fireplace room 85. Just a guess. Whole house heating through that 48” opening will never be great.

Edit. What is your heat source now. I spent 6k 4 years ago and I will never save that much money even getting wood for free. Good heatpump and average electric rates and never very cold.

 

[EbS-P]

Yes only connection is that 48” opening. Maybe a fan near that opening to would help circulate heat? I’ve heard of actually having fans on the floor, pointing INTO the firebox room, to pull cool air out of other rooms, getting sort of a convection loop going. Does that really work?

Yes insulation behind shroud around unit. Drolet and Osborn have some units that recommend 13+ feet

 

[Bobbob]

The picture showing the outside of the house measuring chimney height isn't a correct measurement. You have to measure from that rooms floor height and not the ground level. I bet it's 7 or 7.5 ft and not 9

 

[Ashful]

Does anyone know what the height of the top of the door on the Princess??
In the clearances chart it says “ 20” from top of door to mantel”, but no where in the specs can I find the actual door height.

Also, didn’t know about the thermostat issue. Is it mounted on the front on the insert?

Paging @BKVP. Door height check in aisle #7.

 

[BKVP]

I'll measure on Monday and respond..

 

[spudman99]

You need a 12" clearance from the top of the door to the bottom of the mantle for a Princess Insert.

I will be embarking on my 3rd year with the PI29 Princess insert. My house is 3000 sf colonial built 1982 with cellotex panels and what was then typical insulation, no house wrap and aluminum siding. The insert will keep my family room at 74 deg but I dont get alot of that heat upstairs. When using the IR temperature reading, my walls in the family room will read 64deg at the bottom and 70deg at the top. I suspect I have quite a bit of heat loss through the thermal envelop hence not as much warmth upstairs.

I love the Princess and it makes my life so easy. Load at 8:00 am, turn down before leaving for work. Come home at 8pm, reload, turn down and im good till the next morning for a hot restart. Not having to restart fires frequently is a big plus for me.

My mantle sits 22" above the door. I fabricated a deflector plate out of sheet metal cause I didnt like the temps on the mantle even with that distance. My IR reading on the wood mantle rarely gets above 100deg with the deflector. I am planning on redoing my fp front next year and I plan on moving the mantle up higher.

You can see the shield in the photo. I know my side clearances are not sufficient, I have rockwool stuffed in the opening and regularly monitor the surface temp. Next year they will be gone and replaced with stacked stone.

I always suggest that if you are considering a stove or insert.... start getting wood now! I secured a couple cords of wood the year prior to installation. Having 20% or less moisture prior to my first season make the stove more enjoyable.... a lot more. Good luck.

 

[Skyeward]

You need a 12" clearance from the top of the door to the bottom of the mantle for a Princess Insert.

@spudman99 Can you measure how high off the floor (bottom of unit) the top of the door is? That would be super helpful, thanks!

In the manual for the Princess 29 I see 20” for top of door to mantle, where did you get the 12” from?

Thanks for all the other info btw

 

[BKVP]

18 5/8"

 

[Garbanzo62]

The Regency i2500 is basically the same as the i2450 with a Cat added to meet the epa biofuel efficiency standard . You get a 26% tax credit on materials and installation with the i2500 if it is installed before Dec 31 this year. Next year I think it drops to 22%. If you run the i2500 without engaging the cat you effectively have an i2450. I just had the i2500 installed, waiting for building dept to finish permitting and inspection. Also, check with you insurance company before you decide. an Insert and a Free Standing may have different insurance implications that may affect your decision.

 

[Dix]

The Regency i2500 is basically the same as the i2450 with a Cat added to meet the epa biofuel efficiency standard . You get a 26% tax credit on materials and installation with the i2500 if it is installed before Dec 31 this year. Next year I think it drops to 22%. If you run the i2500 without engaging the cat you effectively have an i2450. I just had the i2500 installed, waiting for building dept to finish permitting and inspection. Also, check with you insurance company before you decide. an Insert and a Free Standing may have different insurance implications that may affect your decision.

My daughter burns the I2500 in in the mountains in Burlington, they love it.