Expected life of a non-catalytic EPA certified stove

[Pagey]

Just curious: assuming you burn quality fuel, purchase a reputable, well made stove, and avoid over firing your stove, what's the probable or "average" life expectancy of a non-catalytic EPA certified stove? From my understanding of the catalytic vs. non-catalytic debate, you definitely need to burn the non-cats at higher temperatures to achieve secondary combustion. This would lead me to believe that, on average, a cat would outlast a non-cat. Color me curious...

Hit me with the clue bat!

 

[Pagey]

Good eye. Corrected for those who like coherent sentences! ;-)

 

[karri0n]

As long as you maintain the stove, it can last forever. A cat stove actually doesn't last as long as a non cat, if you are just considering how long it "lasts" to mean how long before you need to replace parts. The catalyst will go, and you will need to replace it more often than you need to replace things on non-cat woodstoves. The advantage of non-cats are the fact that they are lower maintenance.

 

[Highbeam]

I agree. The bigger question is how do you know when a stove is worn out? Is it when the rust pokes through the wall? Can't say I have ever seen a stove that is worn out. Technology or aesthtics will make it obsolete before it wears out. Not many moving parts on a stove that aren't replacable.

 

[BrotherBart]

To maintain secondary combustion a non-cat has to have an internal firebox temp of around 1100 degrees. On a cat stove once you fire off the cat the gases in the chamber are burning at 1200-1400 degrees. So things are getting hot no matter which technology you are using. The question with a cat stove is what kind of refractory chamber the cat burns in and how long it will live.

 

[Dexter]

I have a jotul f600 cb I bought for the 99/00 season (I think -- or 00/01). 24/7 each season since, with the only problem being the need for a modified top baffle/burn plate. I am going to replace the secondary burn tubes this summer, and the heat chambers which supply them (I don't know the term.) I will re-gasket/rope the doors and flue collar too. Everything else seems as when I bought it. 'Whats to wear out?

Dexter

 

[Pagey]

Well, they're man made, and everything man made eventually wears out. For example, welds fail, baffles crack, air tubes degrade, fire bricks crack, gaskets fail, etc. I'm just wondering what the average life span should be before you have to undertake a major repair that would put one in the analogous position of either 1.) fixing up the ole beater car one more time or 2.) just biting the bullet and replacing the ole beater car with shiny new one. ;-)

 

[begreen]

Ah, that's a better question. For many stoves this seems to be around the 10-15 year mark, though it depends on the design and usage. In general, the more complex the stove, the more there is to maintain. In between the stove may need a door gasket or two, but I don't consider that the same as a major rebuild.

A steel stove like the PE doesn't have a lot to replace besides the door gasket, the stainless baffle (warrantied), baffle gasket and the firebricks. A complex stove like the downdraft VC stoves have a bypass damper assembly, refractory assemblies, grates, several gaskets, thermostat, etc. So they will need more maintenance and are becoming much more expensive to maintain.

 

[RedRanger]

It will last until technology overtakes it. Or to be more precise, until gov mandated technology overtakes it.

In the meantime, enjoy the warmth, and don`t sweat it.

Even in future years, no one is going to come along and yank the stove out from under you.

 

[Todd]

My Fireview will last til Woodstock comes out with a new model, then I will trade it in.

 

[BrotherBart]

My Fireview will last til Woodstock comes out with a new model, then I will trade it in.

The Woodstonox. :lol:

 

[Pagey]

Ah, that's a better question. For many stoves this seems to be around the 10-15 year mark, though it depends on the design and usage. In general, the more complex the stove, the more there is to maintain. In between the stove may need a door gasket or two, but I don't consider that the same as a major rebuild.

A steel stove like the PE doesn't have a lot to replace besides the door gasket, the stainless baffle (warrantied), baffle gasket and the firebricks. A complex stove like the downdraft VC stoves have a bypass damper assembly, refractory assemblies, grates, several gaskets, thermostat, etc. So they will need more maintenance and are becoming much more expensive to maintain.

Good deal. That's what I was getting at. I appreciate the insight. ;-)

 

[daleeper]

The advantage of non-cats are the fact that they are lower maintenance.

From reading on this forum, I'm not convinced that this is fact. Yes the cat will need proper cleaning, and after a period of years even with proper burn technique, will need replaced. However, a non-cat needs airway passages cleaned, tubes cleaned or replaced, baffles warp and insulation boards have their problems too. Both style of stove have door gaskets and latches that will require maintenance over time. Just read about a 10-15 year old PE Super 27 with steel problems inside the firebox that needs rebuilt.

All stoves will need maintenance at some point in time. Plate steel warps, cast steel cracks, as does soapstone. Any steel inside the firebox, including stainless can and will fail if over-fired too often.

All stoves have similar materials they are built with. I believe the design of the stove and the way it is used has more to do with longevity than the mode of wood-gas burning.

 

[Chettt]

I replaced a non-kitty stove a couple of years ago that had been burning for 27 years. Someone bought it for a cabin. The big difference between a cat and a non is the ability to burn any kind of wood in a non-cat.

 

[pinewoodburner]

I replaced a non-kitty stove a couple of years ago that had been burning for 27 years. Someone bought it for a cabin. The big difference between a cat and a non is the ability to burn any kind of wood in a non-cat.

The big difference in a cat and a non cat is the burn time, and yes you should only burn seasoned wood in a cat stove, but if you don't have seasoned wood, open the bypass and burn wood just like any other stove.

 

[gerry100]

Stoves are basically steel and brick, like a building and will last indefinitely if maintained.

My old Jumbo Moe went for 28 years and needed only door gaskets and a good sandblasting/cleaning (due to my negligence). It's probably heating for the new owner as I write this.

For the newer EPA stoves, the secondary are tubes are thin gauge and see a lot heat excursions so they may be a replacement item at some point.

Door gaskets and glass if there is an accident are the only other items.

 

[Highbeam]

daleeper "However, a non-cat needs airway passages cleaned, tubes cleaned or replaced, baffles warp and insulation boards have their problems too. "

You don't need to clean airway passages or tubes clean air passes through them and into the firebox. Not sure who told you that.

Baffles can warp and boards can break if they are abused. This is abuse and not normal.

There's nothing inside my non-cat stove that will need to be maintained and I believe that my secondary air manifold system has a lifetime warranty against burn through. Both cat and non-cat are pretty maintenance free.

 

[Todd]

My Fireview will last til Woodstock comes out with a new model, then I will trade it in.

The Woodstonox. :lol:

Or the Equiview. :lol:

I predict Woodstock coming out with a larger stove in the next couple years.

 

[jpl1nh]

I replaced a non-kitty stove a couple of years ago that had been burning for 27 years. Someone bought it for a cabin. The big difference between a cat and a non is the ability to burn any kind of wood in a non-cat.

??? What can't I burn in my cat? Painted, varnished, creosoted, salt water soaked, glued..anything else? The pine and hemlock I've been burning for the last 15 months works nicely, as does the birch, oak, hickory, maple, etc.. The only thing I can't burn in my cat is the wood I don't have. :question:

 

[daleeper]

daleeper "However, a non-cat needs airway passages cleaned, tubes cleaned or replaced, baffles warp and insulation boards have their problems too. "

You don't need to clean airway passages or tubes clean air passes through them and into the firebox. Not sure who told you that.


There's nothing inside my non-cat stove that will need to be maintained and I believe that my secondary air manifold system has a lifetime warranty against burn through. Both cat and non-cat are pretty maintenance free.

As to cleaning the airways, here are a couple of posts:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/11511/

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/14834/

As to your stove not needing internal maintenance, I hope you are right, but if you keep that stove an extended length of time, you will maintain parts inside that stove. As I stated earlier, design of the stove plays an important part in the longevity of the stove, as well as how it is run. I believe these two factors make more of a difference in how long the stove lasts, and how much maintenance is needed than whether the stove is cat. or non-cat.

 

[jpl1nh]

daleeper "However, a non-cat needs airway passages cleaned, tubes cleaned or replaced, baffles warp and insulation boards have their problems too. "

You don't need to clean airway passages or tubes clean air passes through them and into the firebox. Not sure who told you that.


There's nothing inside my non-cat stove that will need to be maintained and I believe that my secondary air manifold system has a lifetime warranty against burn through. Both cat and non-cat are pretty maintenance free.

As to cleaning the airways, here are a couple of posts:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/11511/

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/14834/

As to your stove not needing internal maintenance, I hope you are right, but if you keep that stove an extended length of time, you will maintain parts inside that stove. As I stated earlier, design of the stove plays an important part in the longevity of the stove, as well as how it is run. I believe these two factors make more of a difference in how long the stove lasts, and how much maintenance is needed than whether the stove is cat. or non-cat.

Agreed, plus the overall quality of construction and amount of materials used. The thicker plate steels should last longer than the thinner, "premium" stoves such as Woodstock suggest their stoves will last for generations, soapstone tends to be more heat tolerant than metal, etc..

 

[mayhem]

Maybe not a precise answer, but at least a mildly useful data point.

My morhter's old VC Defiant (made in the late 1970's, no glass doors, not sure if its a cat model or not) was retired from service a few years ago due to a couple cracks that developed in the firebox. This stove was used as a major (but not primary...thats just not possible) heat source in a 9000+ square foot 3 story center hall colonial. Burned about 10-12 cords a season and was overfired by yours truly on a semi-regular basis to where sections of the front doors would cast an orange glow into the room. I'd say we got a solid 20 years out of the old girl and its probably very repairable and could server for another easy 10 years with a little TLC.

Wood stoves will eventually wear out I suppose, but if you use it properly you'll get tired of the aesthetics and will have the money to replace it using just your saved pocket change before it actually wears out.

 

[Ken45]

I might speculate that we might want to replace a stove because of newer, better technology (like the EPA stoves) faster than they actually wear out. Of course it depends on how the stove was made. I'll bet the 30 year old Fishers and Timberlines have not worn out yet unless they were abused.

Ken

 

[Highbeam]

daleeper "However, a non-cat needs airway passages cleaned, tubes cleaned or replaced, baffles warp and insulation boards have their problems too. "

You don't need to clean airway passages or tubes clean air passes through them and into the firebox. Not sure who told you that.


There's nothing inside my non-cat stove that will need to be maintained and I believe that my secondary air manifold system has a lifetime warranty against burn through. Both cat and non-cat are pretty maintenance free.

As to cleaning the airways, here are a couple of posts:

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/11511/

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/14834/

As to your stove not needing internal maintenance, I hope you are right, but if you keep that stove an extended length of time, you will maintain parts inside that stove. As I stated earlier, design of the stove plays an important part in the longevity of the stove, as well as how it is run. I believe these two factors make more of a difference in how long the stove lasts, and how much maintenance is needed than whether the stove is cat. or non-cat.

Both of those links were only somewhat related to the issue of secondary air system maintenance. The first one had nothing to do with it. The second one was coincidence at best. I've never seen a thread or post where someone has needed to remove or demonstrated that the secondary system was actually clogged with something. Dust bunnies in an intake system are a problem for all stoves depending on where you are getting your intake air. Again, the secondary system passes clean intake air from outside of the stove into the firebox. No different than an air wash or primary air on a cat stove. It's not like you are routing smoke and creoste through the tubes.

True, the quality and durability of the elements of the stove is more important than cat or non-cat. A 200 lb steel plate stove will likely burn out or warp long before a 500 lb plate stove of the same size.

Most importantly, the owner will probably want a change before the stove's service life is spent.

 

[precaud]

The second one was coincidence at best. I've never seen a thread or post where someone has needed to remove or demonstrated that the secondary system was actually clogged with something.

Then you didn't understand the point of my post then. As author of the second thread, I can say that I again noticed the same thing a few weeks ago when I started burning this season. This time I used compressed air and the difference was obvious. Cleaning out the secondaries of the Quad will be a part of my annual pre-season maintenance from now on.