extend the Lopi burn just a little?

[stockdoct]

I wasn't really expecting to get the awesome 12 hour burn advertised by Lopi Stoves (broken link removed) for my new Lopi Freedom insert, but I really didn't expect to get the 2 1/2 - 3 hour burn I'm getting either.

I'm using less-than-wonderfully dense wood, but is very dry and seasoned well ..... smaller chunks and small splits that surely burn more quickly than a huge 22" x 8" splits stacked tightly on a bed of hot coals. But even with my wood, I had expected a little more. I've experimented with packing the stove up to the top of the heat-stones, cutting the damper down by 70% - 90% - 100% once the temp hits about 500 degrees, with a little benefit. But I'm still down to golden coals in 2 hours after the blower started, and the blower is shutting off when the temp drops to 300 degrees in 3 hours, unless I add more wood. My morning stove looks dark, with a lone hot coal or two that will certainly start kindling up again, but it takes ANOTHER 30-45 minutes and a 1/2 stove of wood burned before the blower comes on again. I wish I could get a better burn, but I'm running out of tricks. Any ideas?

P.S. If I wait until the blower cuts off when the stove-top temp drops to 300 degrees or so, and IMMEDIATELY add combustible wood like kindling and the temp rises quickly, the blower STILL won't come on for 30 + minutes with a stove-top temp of 450-500 degrees. Might there be a problem with the install of the blower or thermo-disc? Is there a "manual" blower switch that I could somehow switch, so my blower will start up more quickly, and I could stop it later in the cycle?

Many thanks to all of your expertise, wit and wisdom. I've had a ball reading these forums this past couple months!

 

[trouba]

I have a LOPI Answer insert obliviously not the same model as yours but just change the scale. To give you some perspective a direct quote from LOPI is, "This large firebox holds enough wood to heat for 8 hours without reloading and is perfect for spaces up to 1,200 sq. ft.". Now let me tell you about my real world experience, if you want to see wood chunks and flames you had better be feeding it every 4 hours or so. If you notice their wording "holds enough wood to heat for 8 hours". You notice whats missing, wood chunks and flames, don't get me wrong it will put off heat for 8 hours or so. Once I got past that and the fan thing, mine operates just as yours (its counter productive for the fan to kick in before the stove reaches optimal temperature, cool burns = clogged chimney and dirty glass). Also your burn times are highly dependent on the quality of your wood . I have burned seasoned oak and red elm and have gotten really long burn times (not 8 hours). On a side note my home is 1450 square feet and it heats it quite well. I still really like my stove despite these shortcomings.

 

[stockdoct]

I guess I have to point the finger directly at TRAVIS INDUSTRIES, who put out unrealistic advertisements for their products. For God's sake, there is a huge difference between heating "a home" 12 hours vs 2 1/2 hours. A little heat radiating from a barely warm, 150 degree stove does not (in my book) constitute "heat a house". They admittedly make a good quality product, but should be ashamed at their marketing lies.

 

[stovetechri]

thats over night burn 12hrs. my endeavor has burned for 19 hrs and all i did was add more wood and the fire started from the coals. your quick to say one of the best stoves are junk. you obviously dont know how to use one. do you think you get more heat from using less wood?

 

[trouba]

Sounds like you need to get some better wood, as an example I was deer hunting with some friends at the cabin this weekend and we had the wood stove in the tin shed going (its a vintage Warm Morning circa 1949 and not terrible efficient at that) we were burning some punkie hackberry at first and you could just about feed that thing nonstop and not real great heat output, but when that ran out I switched over to some oak mixed with locust and the continuous feeding stopped. As a by product of this I had to watch my temps as the top of the stove and first 3 feet of chimney quickly turned red. So as you can see I wouldn't be to quick to condemn your stove until you get some good quality wood.

 

[madrone]

Something's wrong, for sure. I don't do overnight burns, but my Endeavor does an easy 6 hours of real heat on 5-6 splits in the 5" or smaller range. It's been a long time since I loaded it full, but loading 3/4 full, I'll have usable coals after 8 hours.
That said, I can't imagine 12 hours of heat. Maybe 10 with tight-packed oak, but after 12 hours I'd expect only enough coals to start kindling, if that, no real heat production. The claims are based on some kind of "ideal situation". Who knows what it is. There's no standardized testing for burn times, so they get to use an unlikely scenario in their ads.

 

[stovetechri]

Something's wrong, for sure. I don't do overnight burns, but my Endeavor does an easy 6 hours of real heat on 5-6 splits in the 5" or smaller range. It's been a long time since I loaded it full, but loading 3/4 full, I'll have usable coals after 8 hours.
That said, I can't imagine 12 hours of heat. Maybe 10 with tight-packed oak, but after 12 hours I'd expect only enough coals to start kindling, if that, no real heat production. The claims are based on some kind of "ideal situation". Who knows what it is. There's no standardized testing for burn times, so they get to use an unlikely scenario in their ads.

YOUR NOT FILLING YOUR STOVE ALL THE WAY......... 12 hrs dampend down is good for the lowest sq ft. you burn more wood to heat more sqft and the wood burns faster 4-7 hrs. R U guys not Listening. ive installed over 300 lopi stoves. And im not seeing any problems but you wood or your comprehension of the way you use a stove.

 

[North of 60]

This stove has a 2.9cuft fire box. Its not being operated correctly or the install/set up is terribly wrong. Do you have a roof on your house? 2.5 hrs almost sounds impossible even with a softwood
burning on Hi. :roll:

 

[eba1225]

I have to say that the type of wood that I use in my Lopi has a direct correlation to the length of time that it will burn/provide heat, and yes it still puts out heat even when there are little to no coals left.

 

[stockdoct]

First of all, I'm NOT condemning the stove or calling it "junk". The stove I believe is high quality and will serve me many, many years, and I'm enjoying wood burning to heat my home. What I'm condemning, is the Lopi advertising (which is why I included the link) and the installer who simply repeated the words in the ads to me as I contemplated which stove to buy. To a new wood-stove buyer ..... "Heat up to 2,250 sq. ft. home for 12 hours on one load of wood" is pretty much self-explanatory.

When I say 2 1/2 - 3 hours, I'm speaking about how long the blower is operating, since thats the majority of heat one gets from an insert.

If I start a fire at 5 pm, the blower kicks on at 5:30 pm, the fire goes well for 3 hours, and at 8 pm the blower shuts off at 300 degrees stove top temp, the coals glow until 10 pm with a stove top temp of 250, and by midnight the stove temp is 180 and I can put my hand on the surface comfortably........ how long did the stove "Heat the 2,250 sq ft. house" ?

I say for 2 1/2 hours, while the blower was operating. The Lopi installer would probably say 5 hours, since the stove was theoretically generating "heat" until 10 pm. Lopi would probably say 7 hours or more since the stove was actually above room temperature until midnight or later. I think that is clealy a mis-truth.

I'm just trying to learn how to get the most heat from my stove from a given load of wood, and any tips I get are surely appreciated. I've learned so much since I burned my first load, and think there's more here for me to learn as well.

 

[Custerstove]

I'm not familiar with your stove's controls, but it seems odd that you cannot switch the blower to a manual setting. Do you have an owner's booklet that came with the stove. I'd check that out and see if they mention anything about the blower being set to manual.

 

[drdoct]

Do you have any air leaks from your gaskets? I've got the Revere and I'll pack it at 10:30 with it at 500*. I mean pack it good and tight all the way touching the secondary tubes. I can go either way N/S, E/W, but prefer N/S because it's easier to get them in and to see how much your packing. Then I leave the door cracked until it gets flaming good. Close it down to about 1/3 open on the damper and I will have a few log shaped red coals in the morning at 6:30. Stove will be at 250* or so by then. Maybe you should try to throw on a few not so dry, seasoned chunks (not green though) on top of the good dry stuff your using. My pieces are not too small, more like 5-6" wide. Usually takes about 8-10 pieces to stuff the box in my case. What kind of wood is it? If you were in Georgia I'd trade you a few wetter but seasoned splits to get your time up. Do you have any pictures of what your burning?

 

[Jags]

Hey Stock - I see where your coming from with the whole 12 hour thing. I am sorry but a 150 degree stove won't hardly heat a pot of water let alone my house.

Now - I am backing up N of 60 here. Your running a stove that has darn near a 3 cu ft. firebox. Its an insert, so we know that will increase the difficulty in getting the heated air out to the room, but you still have a 3 cu ft firebox. This bugger should hold FIRE for more than your posted 3 hours.

I also run a 3 cu ft firebox (I don't give a squirt if its an insert or freestander, its still an epa machine with the ability to hold alot of wood). Loaded with good quality wood, you should be able to extend "real" heating beyond the 3 hours. By that, I mean producing real heat that will really heat your house for more than 3 hours. I don't have the answer for you, but I will say that something is "a-skew". Maybe your running too hard and burning the load quicker than needed??? Air leaks??? Something.

 

[stockdoct]

I'm home for the next couple days and will run a bunch of experiments .... I have a couple ideas. And I'll post the results here when I get done. (I am SUCH the incorrigible scientist

 

[Jags]

I'm home for the next couple days and will run a bunch of experiments .... I have a couple ideas. And I'll post the results here when I get done. (I am SUCH the incorrigible scientist

Good - don't give up on this. That is one mighty nice machine. Question:When it is running with good fire, does this thing do a "good" job of heating or do you feel that you have to push it to make heat? Reasoning: being an insert, it can be difficult to get the heated air out into the living space. Is it possible that you are running this stove at the upper end of its capability and this is causing the short burn times??? Just throwing out ideas.

 

[madrone]

Something's wrong, for sure. I don't do overnight burns, but my Endeavor does an easy 6 hours of real heat on 5-6 splits in the 5" or smaller range. It's been a long time since I loaded it full, but loading 3/4 full, I'll have usable coals after 8 hours.
That said, I can't imagine 12 hours of heat. Maybe 10 with tight-packed oak, but after 12 hours I'd expect only enough coals to start kindling, if that, no real heat production. The claims are based on some kind of "ideal situation". Who knows what it is. There's no standardized testing for burn times, so they get to use an unlikely scenario in their ads.

YOUR NOT FILLING YOUR STOVE ALL THE WAY......... 12 hrs dampend down is good for the lowest sq ft. you burn more wood to heat more sqft and the wood burns faster 4-7 hrs. R U guys not Listening. ive installed over 300 lopi stoves. And im not seeing any problems but you wood or your comprehension of the way you use a stove.

Uh, yeah. I don't fill my stove. I was sharing that I get better times out of my stove without filling my stove. And you sort of proved my point about burn times. 12 hours is heating the smallest sq ft. with a full box of hardwood damped all the way down. Not how it's always going to be run. When they say 'up to 2500 sqft, up to 12 hours,' it's not both, it's either/or. That's what seems a little misleading. No need to insult my wood or my comprehension.

 

[Bubbavh]

I had a similar problem with my blower. Here is what you can do to try and remedy it. Their is a bracket that holds a thermal disc switch behind the blower on the right side of your stove. You can slide the blower out (no tools needs) off the rubber bushing. Behind it you will see a silver u-shaped bracket. on the top of the bracket their is a thermal disc switch. If this switch is not making good contact with the bottom of the stove the disc will not "pop" as easily as it should. You can use a pair of pliers to grab the back side of the bracket and squeeze it together to push the disc up against the stove. Your other option is to make a jumper wire and bypass the switch all together so your fan will run as soon as you turn your switch on. Only problem with this is you also have to turn it off manually. Hope this helps!



EDIT: Your blower is a little different than what I thought it was when I posted this. Call Travis Ind. 425-609-2500 ask for tech support. Tell them the problem with the blower and they will walk you through it.


As far as burn times... Have you checked your door seals?

 

[madrone]

I hope it's not the gaskets, since you said it's a new stove. What kind of wood are you burning?

 

[Bubbavh]

I hope it's not the gaskets, since you said it's a new stove. What kind of wood are you burning?

Maybe the installer didn't make sure the door was pulling itself shut! Stranger things have happened. The dollar test only takes a couple minutes. I know if I forget to shut my doors when starting up the stove my wood is gone really fast! It's worth a shot!

 

[kenny chaos]

I use a Lopi Liberty under rather extreme conditions meaning the stone walls have an insulating value of R-.08. Yes, .08. When it is in the low 20's, I only get a couple hours of useable heat; stove top temp reading 300 degrees with full blower (500 degrees plus without blower) = 65 degrees for 800 sq. ft.. I can get 12-20 hour burn times and have coals left for refiring but the useable heat is not there for me.
When I read what others get, it makes it very clear that insulation, or lack there of, plays a very big role.

 

[madrone]

True, Bubbavh. It would explain it. Good to rule out. I've had to adjust the latch on my own stove.

Off topic...ever seen the Jersey Devil?

 

[Bubbavh]

True, Bubbavh. It would explain it. Good to rule out. I've had to adjust the latch on my own stove.

Off topic...ever seen the Jersey Devil?

No but I did go to high school with the great great granddaughter of the woman (Mother Leeds) who supposedly gave birth to the Jersey Devil! She swore it was true... but you know how them urban legends go! As young kids we used to go party back at a place called the Carranza Memorial where Emilio Carranza Rodriguez the "Lindbergh of Mexico" crashed his plane. They placed a monument there and in the cement around the monument their are footprints of the "Jersey Devil".

I don't really buy any of it though! Probably just a strange birth defect. The woman did have 13 children!

 

[TKeller]

I don't know. I have had a new lopi freedom running for three weeks now. With a deep bed of coals and two big pieces of locust I only get about 4 hours of hot usable heat. I don't pack it up to the secondary burners because you have to have several different sizes of pieces to cram it like that. One thing I noticed with the lopi freedom it is best to not close the bottom air damper all the way as it will burn dirty sometimes. So I have it about an inch open so it is getting quite abit of air. So in stockdoct's case from my experience better wood would help him but as far as hot usable heat he is not far off from my experiences. Tony

PS. With my old stove I got only 3 hours of hot usable heat and more creosote so I am still better off. But I still have to get up during the night and add to keep the lopi running. Very disappointing.

 

[stockdoct]

I'm reading over some of the fine print in the Freedom's user's manual, and I found a couple interesting things.

In the "Overnight Burn" section (page 18) it reads "This stove is large enough to accommodate burn times up to 8 hours" which seems to contradict Lopi's advertisements of "heating a 2250 sq ft. house for 12 hours" --- unless its 60 degrees and sunny outside, and you OVERHEAT the house and then let the temp drift down during the last 4 hours, I imagine.....

The manual also states on page 18 that to achieve an overnight burn, you need to burn enough wood to get the stove up to 500+ degrees (which I've found is NOT an inconsequential amount of wood) and when the stove is 500+ degrees, THEN "Load as much wood as possible. Use large pieces if possible." This idea is kinda is contrary to their advertisement "Heat up to 2,250 sq. ft. for 12 hours on one load of wood" since you had to use 1/3 load of wood to get the stove up to temp....

So actually, you need 1 1/3 loads of wood, packing the stove as full as possible, to get the fire up to temperature and then have an 8 (not 12) hour burn time under best circumstances according to the manual. And that's probably not including the drain on the stove that the "optional" blower draws.

The fine print in the manual seems to substantially contradict the large print in the advertisements.

 

[gpcollen1]

WOW - sounds like OPERATOR error as noted by others...don't knock it til you know how to use it. I have a very similar stove or maybe even the same exact one - the Avalon Olympic and here are my thoughts for you and others...

1 - If you want good heat and a long burn, you need to FILL that firebox!

2 - Stove temps?? All you are getting that thing up to is 500?? You need to get it hotter for sure!! I rip mine to 700-800 degrees and get her purring - I can start closing air a bit at maybe 600. Your manual states that over 800 is overfiring - get that puppy hott!

3 - Blower - if you do all this, you may want to make sure that the snap disk that controls the blower going on and off is set in the correct location - out of the path of air flow from the blower - and that it is pressed up against the bottom of the stove.

My 2 pesos for you - or 3