Feeling the burn: Firewood sales, prices are blazing

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Due to the increase in cost of lumber, many of the Amish around here were milling instead of producing firewood. There's a few people I know that last year that were buying a cord for $120, now very few are selling and they are having trouble finding wood. For us, we own wooded land and the neighbor has 100's of acres we cut from so it's not an issue. I'm not even sure what wood is selling for now.
 
I figured that selling at 55$ a FC I was only making about 15 bucks an hour selling wood. If you consider it takes me about 3 hours to cut the tree, skid it out of the woods, and block/split it. Around 3 hours per FC total.
Taking some money out of the 55$ for chainsaw fuel and maintenance, and also tractor fuel and maintenance.

If I could bump that number up to 85$ a FC I’d be doing better. The biggest issue for me is a lot of people want the wood delivered, and I can only do 1 FC at a time with my trailer.

That’s why right now I only cut wood for friends and family. I just take a trailer load when I go to visit.

The Amish by me almost all have their own sawmills now. A few of them are bigger operations, and they were very busy this last spring and summer.
 
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Honestly, unless you can do bulk with heavy equipment, skid steer, processor, and selling to campers or gas stations, around here it seems firewood is a starving gig,
There is a guy nearby split ash 190.00 for a cord, I’m assuming not delivered.
 
There are a few guys with setups like that around here. There’s a lot of logging that goes on around here and I figure they’re just getting log loads to process into firewood.

For myself I figure if I can sell enough wood to cover the property taxes then the property is paying for itself. I have no ambitions of making it a full time job.
 
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Sweet!!
 
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In my early 70's but still processing my own firewood. The only two times I
ever bought hardwood, mostly all Red Oak, I paid 300. a cord for it. I really
enjoy the exercise- and need it. Very fortunate to have had access to a lot
of free wood over the years. It's definitely around for anyone willing to work
for it.
 
Hopefully despite my busted ankle and rehab I can get out drop another years worth of firewood before the snow melts this spring. I really do not want to buy any when I have 85 acres of woods that need big time thinning. I got into the 2 year cycle and really do not want to go back to worrying about rushing to season wood. I am strongly considering trying the bulk bag method of drying to avoid stacking.
I'm on my second year with the bulk bags and really like them. They are a little pricey but mine appear as if I can get 3 loadings or more out of them. If you have a tractor with forks it is 100% the easiest method. Right now I have 3 bags under the porch with different species of wood in each. My seasoned red oak supply is a bit light so I save that for the overnight burns. Pecan and poplar are handling the day time duties quite well, just lots more ashes to deal with.

An earlier poster mentioned the EPA or Europe trying to make it illegal to burn wood. . . . . that will be the day that I become a bad guy I guess. I simply will not comply.
 
my buddy down at the Jersey shore is paying $200 per 8ft pickup bed flat at the top, so like a face cord and a 1/4.
 
I'm on my second year with the bulk bags and really like them. They are a little pricey but mine appear as if I can get 3 loadings or more out of them. If you have a tractor with forks it is 100% the easiest method. Right now I have 3 bags under the porch with different species of wood in each. My seasoned red oak supply is a bit light so I save that for the overnight burns. Pecan and poplar are handling the day time duties quite well, just lots more ashes to deal with.

An earlier poster mentioned the EPA or Europe trying to make it illegal to burn wood. . . . . that will be the day that I become a bad guy I guess. I simply will not comply.
Generally, it is understood by regulators the problem with heating with wood is tied to user interface. Improperly seasoned wood, improper stove operation and improper installation.

This site is wonderful in many ways. EPA staff I know, read this site. They are encouraged by the first post new visitors get about properly season wood, links to buy moisture meters, advocating for proper sizing when searching for a new wood stove, safe installations, seeking mfg support etc.

But this site is typically the cream of the crop of responsible wood burners. It is not a representation of the majority of wood burners.

I've posted this before, but when a consumer has an issue with our products and that customer finds our suggestions for improvement dubious at best, we send them here. We know that it concentrates the more challenging cases in a single location, but we take that risk of misperception in order to place them in front of a wider, unbiased audience. They seek the proverbial "second opinion" and they get it here...and the third, fourth fifth etc.

Regulators push for automation for wood heaters. They invision a black box that has wood fuel added, provides efficient and clean burning heat and dramatically reduces human error. That already exists in a pellet stove.

So called pro wood burning advocates want wood burners to have automation in their wood stoves. They push for stronger incentives for those products.

In the end, we need this community of knowledgeable, responsible wood burners to grow and become stronger. Tell your friends that responsibly burn wood to contribute to this site....we need them.
 
An earlier poster mentioned the EPA or Europe trying to make it illegal to burn wood. . . . . that will be the day that I become a bad guy I guess. I simply will not comply.

Won't happen, what could happen though is emission regulations become so stringent that it's nearly impossible to build a certifiable stove.

What will happen is municipalities will create bans on a local level, forcing changeout programs, bans on new installs, or outright bans on burning in its entirety. It's already happening here in Canada, particularly in British Columbia. The new regulations for wood stoves are often criticized because the 2.5gr/hr emission limits for new stoves don't match real world PM numbers in areas with many of these stoves operating. Obviously wet wood and improper burning practices are partly to blame, but the legitimacy of the current EPA testing is also being called into question. Much light was also shed on this when Fairbanks started to examine the certifications for woodstoves and found many "irregularities" in the documentation.

I believe there is a point at which this reaches critical mass, when enough municipalities begin to ban wood heating that others will follow suit with little of their own research and no public consultation. At that point wood heating is doomed and it will take a very long time to regain acceptance, if it ever does.

There are advocates at this very time advocating for a ban on wood heating. It's a conversation that will be had regardless of how we as wood burners feel, we just need to make sure that conversation isn't one sided and is based on factual evidence. We also need to acknowledge that improvement is yet possible, and that the current standards and testing methods leave a lot to be desired and don't always translate into real world emissions reductions.

I was actually having this conversation with my grandfather a few weeks ago, sharing how much wood stoves had improved in terms of emissions and how much cleaner they burn. As he stated that's all fine and dandy when only a small percentage of the residents of our city burn on a full time basis, but what would happen if everyone installed a wood stove and burnt full time? What would air quality do then, I bet you'd be asking for everyone to go back to natural gas? I have to agree that he is right.
 
unfortunately i have to agree. they will make it tough to burn if they tighten up rules on wood burning. then everybody will be on natural gas and we will be forced to turn the thermostat down possibly to 66 maybe 67 and for those people that live in a old drafty farm house will be do something that they can't afford, but will make a huge difference in the long run, and that is to take your 2 by 4 outside walls and make them 2 by 6 then insulate it.

this late 2019 to 2020 we had been stopped driving and work from home if you could. it was so good for our environment they could not have done it if they wanted to. by stopping cars our air started to clean up. but more of us were home burning more and the pollution still went for the better. hopefully putting more regulations on wood burning is not the answer. i'm just a simple electrician. my .$.02 worth.
 
Won't happen, what could happen though is emission regulations become so stringent that it's nearly impossible to build a certifiable stove.

What will happen is municipalities will create bans on a local level, forcing changeout programs, bans on new installs, or outright bans on burning in its entirety. It's already happening here in Canada, particularly in British Columbia. The new regulations for wood stoves are often criticized because the 2.5gr/hr emission limits for new stoves don't match real world PM numbers in areas with many of these stoves operating. Obviously wet wood and improper burning practices are partly to blame, but the legitimacy of the current EPA testing is also being called into question. Much light was also shed on this when Fairbanks started to examine the certifications for woodstoves and found many "irregularities" in the documentation.
For the USA, this is slowly coming to a head, not with woodstoves but other federal laws, constitutional rights and supreme court rulings, I think 2022 & 2023 is going to straighten out the whole "home rule" rules for thee and not for me mess. Which way it goes, I dont know, but its coming and lots of implications to follow.
 
Won't happen, what could happen though is emission regulations become so stringent that it's nearly impossible to build a certifiable stove.

What will happen is municipalities will create bans on a local level, forcing changeout programs, bans on new installs, or outright bans on burning in its entirety. It's already happening here in Canada, particularly in British Columbia. The new regulations for wood stoves are often criticized because the 2.5gr/hr emission limits for new stoves don't match real world PM numbers in areas with many of these stoves operating. Obviously wet wood and improper burning practices are partly to blame, but the legitimacy of the current EPA testing is also being called into question. Much light was also shed on this when Fairbanks started to examine the certifications for woodstoves and found many "irregularities" in the documentation.

I believe there is a point at which this reaches critical mass, when enough municipalities begin to ban wood heating that others will follow suit with little of their own research and no public consultation. At that point wood heating is doomed and it will take a very long time to regain acceptance, if it ever does.

There are advocates at this very time advocating for a ban on wood heating. It's a conversation that will be had regardless of how we as wood burners feel, we just need to make sure that conversation isn't one sided and is based on factual evidence. We also need to acknowledge that improvement is yet possible, and that the current standards and testing methods leave a lot to be desired and don't always translate into real world emissions reductions.

I was actually having this conversation with my grandfather a few weeks ago, sharing how much wood stoves had improved in terms of emissions and how much cleaner they burn. As he stated that's all fine and dandy when only a small percentage of the residents of our city burn on a full time basis, but what would happen if everyone installed a wood stove and burnt full time? What would air quality do then, I bet you'd be asking for everyone to go back to natural gas? I have to agree that he is right.
There is nothing wrong with the method (s).
Fairbanks was coached by another agency that identified issues in test reports.

Fairbanks has a Serious Non Attainment area that is mostly the community of North Pole. The lack of any air movement complicates the issue.

I have been keenly involved in the promulgation of the 2015 NSPS. I also was one of 5 manufacturers involved in Federally conducted steering committees for the development of ASTM 3053, an ATM granted by EPA to test with cordwood. You know who else was involved, State regulators including Alaska.

Back in 2010 a WA state regulatory ask "I wonder what the emissions are on cordwood". Arizona, Minnesota, Oregon, Idaho an most of the New England states made the same inquiry.

You can read our comments filed in public record as to the difficulty, confusion in the market place cordwood testing would result in...if approved.

We suggested that the least amount of variability is method 28, now 28R. We also suggested that mfgs should be required to do one run, with no influence on overall gr/h, assigned randomly by EPA using cordwood.

That didn't happen. So we have two viable methods, one with a higher degree of repeatability and allowing consumers to compare a stoves performance to another stoves performance.

The other method, the one that states are highly critical of, the same one they participated in the development, has much higher degrees of variability and won't allow for the above mentioned comparisons.

Back in September, a small task for that I was party to, plus industry, test labs and EPA, came up with very significant suggestions to improve ASTM 3053.

Last week, EPA rescinded the ATM cordwood method. 93 of the 152 wood heaters were tested to the method. EPA will make an announcement in January as to their findings and publish those in the Federal Register.

Again, no problem with the method or improvements, just always going to be variability.
 
And I might add, deficiencies found in test reports won't effect emissions passing gr/h.
 
Local to me, cordwood prices are tied directly to heating oil prices for about five years. Somebody with a small business did the math on how many BTUs are in a cord of firewood, did the math for a similar amount of oil, raised his prices, all the sellers were on board within six months. Now oil prices are up, guess what, cord wood prices are up too.

Don't even get me started on seasoned wood. There are, that I know of one for sure and probably two kiln drying operations local for cordwood. BTU for BTU compared to heating oil I can spend the same dollars at one outfit and the other guy isn't calling me back.

I have been calling around for green wood to season summer 2022 for burning 22/23 and I had a seller call me back with spruce that had been stored as logs all summer, will be split when I order some, but it is "seasoned" and I will save $25 compared to having heating oil pumped into my tank by the truck driver.

I may have to hire my church youth group to "come with me and help" while I harvest green wood off the stump this summer - at $10 per cord plus Uhaul rental to get ten cords in one day and I dunno how many pizzas for the youth group.
 
Local to me, cordwood prices are tied directly to heating oil prices for about five years. Somebody with a small business did the math on how many BTUs are in a cord of firewood, did the math for a similar amount of oil, raised his prices, all the sellers were on board within six months. Now oil prices are up, guess what, cord wood prices are up too.

Don't even get me started on seasoned wood. There are, that I know of one for sure and probably two kiln drying operations local for cordwood. BTU for BTU compared to heating oil I can spend the same dollars at one outfit and the other guy isn't calling me back.

I have been calling around for green wood to season summer 2022 for burning 22/23 and I had a seller call me back with spruce that had been stored as logs all summer, will be split when I order some, but it is "seasoned" and I will save $25 compared to having heating oil pumped into my tank by the truck driver.

I may have to hire my church youth group to "come with me and help" while I harvest green wood off the stump this summer - at $10 per cord plus Uhaul rental to get ten cords in one day and I dunno how many pizzas for the youth group.

And the healthy fun of doing things together with some youngsters in the outdoors. Worth it imo. Even if not cheaper.
 
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More free wood available than ever. From where I sit there’s acres of ash logs down, nobody’s harvesting them.
More likely prices are up as yuppie’s are foolish and lazy, and not many people are cutting wood, when you can make $18 a hour in a dry safe warehouse.
Bout 30 acres near me were timbered last spring. I got permission to harvest the tops and got several nice cords before the land was sold to new owners. Nobody else close by touched it. One neighbor literally next door to the harvest, who also owns 30 acres of woods, actually buys wood by the face cord. Says he’s too old to work. Mid 60’s, doesn’t exercise, sits all day. Killing himself slowly while great exercise and free heat are at his door.
 
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More free wood available than ever. From where I sit there’s acres of ash logs down, nobody’s harvesting them.
More likely prices are up as yuppie’s are foolish and lazy, and not many people are cutting wood, when you can make $18 a hour in a dry safe warehouse.
Bout 30 acres near me were timbered last spring. I got permission to harvest the tops and got several nice cords before the land was sold to new owners. Nobody else close by touched it. One neighbor literally next door to the harvest, who also owns 30 acres of woods, actually buys wood by the face cord. Says he’s too old to work. Mid 60’s, doesn’t exercise, sits all day. Killing himself slowly while great exercise and free heat are at his door.
We harvest in the National Forrest. (When it's not burning!)

We load up saws, cables, fuel, wedges, etc the night before into (2) 2000 F350's. Both are manual 6 speed.

We drive in the dark up into the Blue Mountains are get to our area right a day light. By 10 o'clock a.m., we'll have 12 trees down and cabled up to the road. For the next 5 hours saws are humming and wood stacked into trucks...1 full cord each.

Home by 5 and stack the loads, 1 at my house and 1 at buddies. We repeat the process next morning, Sunday.
 
$5.00 per cord plus fuel, plus time. Well spent in my opinion.
 
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More free wood available than ever. From where I sit there’s acres of ash logs down, nobody’s harvesting them.
I got 16 free cords in tree lengths dropped literally at my front door last spring, bucked and split the next 2 weeks and it was great (kept 2 cords of lengths sitting in my side yard for another time)
I also gaze out my front door and can count 25 cords worth of ash tree's that are dead or dying within easy reach, trying to keep them standing as long as possible with the thinking that they wont rot as fast in that state, vs on the ground.
I agree, you can strike wood lottery if your looking for it and know how to work for it, if your on the side waiting for the easy, then your going to have to have uncle Benjamin help you out.
 
Those ash trees are dangerous, had to really watch where we sat hunting this year. Cleared a 4x4 path to pick up
My wife’s doe, 12 hours later a dozen had dropped in 25mph wind. Many branches in the ground vertical like spears. Hope it burns well, my next year stack s 50% ash.
 
BKVP,

What kind of wood? Lodgepole pine, Douglas Fir? Any hardwood?
 
BKVP,

What kind of wood? Lodgepole pine, Douglas Fir? Any hardwood?
So here, all hardwoods are on valley floor. Walnut, Apple, black locust, cherry, silver maple. When we are able, we go up to 5,800 ft and harvest softwood. Tamarack ( western larch) is favored for quality and straight grain. If you're lucky, you find a "buckskin", all the bark has fallen off. Douglas fir is second choice followed by black pine.