Can anyone recomeend a inexpensive but effective Fire extinguisher for me to have on hand in case of woodstove emergency/fire ? Thanks
Fire extinguishers for woodstove emergency ?
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I wont recommend any particular brand. But IMO this isn't something to cheap out on. That being said anything is better than nothing, but check with local dealers to see if they have any scratch n dent items.
I'm getting 2 20lb Ansul dry chem units with mounting hardware for $35 each. Granted it's a guy I know, but they are still selling em cheaper as scratch n dent.
I'm getting 2 20lb Ansul dry chem units with mounting hardware for $35 each. Granted it's a guy I know, but they are still selling em cheaper as scratch n dent.
I prefer dry chemical too. Especially if you have to shoot the stuff in a stove.
If you haven't used a dry Chemical one before, be very careful. Don't breath the stuff. I mean not even a little bit. I was down wind of a fire once when I used one and it about killed me. It was a combination of my lungs are on fire and I'm suffocating.
Also, dry chemical will snuff out a fire really quickly, but it doesn't cool anything off, so the fire can reignite, especially if you do something to brush the chemicals off the hot stuff.
If you haven't used a dry Chemical one before, be very careful. Don't breath the stuff. I mean not even a little bit. I was down wind of a fire once when I used one and it about killed me. It was a combination of my lungs are on fire and I'm suffocating.
Also, dry chemical will snuff out a fire really quickly, but it doesn't cool anything off, so the fire can reignite, especially if you do something to brush the chemicals off the hot stuff.
I would think twice before opening the stove door if the fire is really hot. Close the air including the EPA air and the flames should die quickly. Opening the door provides a great shot of air and can easily provide a face full of sparks and flames. Better to be safe and shut it down. When in doubt, call the fire dept. and put your taxes to work.
ED
ED
I believe all of the info I have read about chimney fires indicates one should first close down the air supply to the stove, then call 911, then evacuate the house. When the chimney fire stops, have the chimney inspected before starting another fire in the stove. None of the instructions I have read indicate one should shoot a fire extinguishing agent into the stove.
For a fire outside the stove one should have a type ABC fire extinguisher available. As was mentioned above, purchase the best one you can afford even if it is not the least expensive. I have a ten pound ABC extinguisher at my kitchen sink and a 20 lb.ABC extinguisher in a short hallway between the house and the garage. This extinguisher is about 15' from the one at the sink. Also have 20 lb. extinguishers in the garage, outside the basement fire door and in the basement. Been through two fires and I believe one cannot have too much protection.
Type A chemicals are used on paper, wood, cloth, furniture, and similar fires. Type B chemicals are used on oil. grease, and other flammable liquids. Type C chemicals are used on electrical fires ie: short circuits in house wiring, etc. A type ABC extinguisher works on all three types of fires and is therefore a good one to have around the house in the garage, basement, workshop, etc. A carbon dioxide CO2 extinguisher should be used on fires in electronics ie: televisions, amplifiers, computers, etc because the CO2 is less destructive to the sensitive electronics in these appliances. I do not know if the CO2 extinguishers have a Type classification.
Best wishes,
John_M
For a fire outside the stove one should have a type ABC fire extinguisher available. As was mentioned above, purchase the best one you can afford even if it is not the least expensive. I have a ten pound ABC extinguisher at my kitchen sink and a 20 lb.ABC extinguisher in a short hallway between the house and the garage. This extinguisher is about 15' from the one at the sink. Also have 20 lb. extinguishers in the garage, outside the basement fire door and in the basement. Been through two fires and I believe one cannot have too much protection.
Type A chemicals are used on paper, wood, cloth, furniture, and similar fires. Type B chemicals are used on oil. grease, and other flammable liquids. Type C chemicals are used on electrical fires ie: short circuits in house wiring, etc. A type ABC extinguisher works on all three types of fires and is therefore a good one to have around the house in the garage, basement, workshop, etc. A carbon dioxide CO2 extinguisher should be used on fires in electronics ie: televisions, amplifiers, computers, etc because the CO2 is less destructive to the sensitive electronics in these appliances. I do not know if the CO2 extinguishers have a Type classification.
Best wishes,
John_M
The OP didn't clarify what kind of fire emergency.
I'm partial to the pressurized water type extinguishers (the 2' high stainless steel ones). I think they are more effective than the dry chem extinguishers which are not rated for much of a "solid fuel" type of fire. A typical good dry chem would be rated 1A:20BC which means it will only handle a solid fuel fire 1/20th of what it will handle for a grease fire. Many are not even rated for solid fuel fires (e.g. they do not have an "A" rating.
For an overfire in the stove, shut down the air completely (figure out how to do that in advance).
Ken
I'm partial to the pressurized water type extinguishers (the 2' high stainless steel ones). I think they are more effective than the dry chem extinguishers which are not rated for much of a "solid fuel" type of fire. A typical good dry chem would be rated 1A:20BC which means it will only handle a solid fuel fire 1/20th of what it will handle for a grease fire. Many are not even rated for solid fuel fires (e.g. they do not have an "A" rating.
For an overfire in the stove, shut down the air completely (figure out how to do that in advance).
Ken
Ken 45's comments are right on. I did a lot of boating for many years. These were boats 24' and shorter. Any fire encountered in these small vessels would usually be fuel or electrical in nature. So, I had only type BC extinguishers on board.
John_M
John_M
I've had a couple of runaways... worst thing that ever happened was the glass got burned clean... But, I figured out what was going on and took steps.
Keep Reynolds Wrap handy... if you have a gasket fail and leaking across the coal bed, the fire gets kind of exciting. Depending on the construction of the unit, aluminum foil can be chinked into the crack with a screwdriver or butter knife... stops the airflow and restores control.
Know your stove, well.
The design of the VC insert I have... shutting the airflow controls off and opening the door cools the entire unit down, because it breaks the draft and the air flows over the fire into the chimney. All else fails, I'll open the door. Don't recommend that unless you know it will work.
Wet newspaper sounds like a reasonable working solution.
Keep Reynolds Wrap handy... if you have a gasket fail and leaking across the coal bed, the fire gets kind of exciting. Depending on the construction of the unit, aluminum foil can be chinked into the crack with a screwdriver or butter knife... stops the airflow and restores control.
Know your stove, well.
The design of the VC insert I have... shutting the airflow controls off and opening the door cools the entire unit down, because it breaks the draft and the air flows over the fire into the chimney. All else fails, I'll open the door. Don't recommend that unless you know it will work.
Wet newspaper sounds like a reasonable working solution.
They usually have good deals on ABC fire extinguishers at Sams Club. I keep a 10 lb behind the pellet stove. Personally I prefer bigger rather than better in these instances as the cheapies work as well as the real nice ones. Also it's cheaper to just replace them nowdays than get them recharged / recertafied around here. About all you get with the nice ones I see is a better tension clamp for vehicle mounting which you don't need in your house. I just get the ones with a dial pressure gauge so I can keep an eye on it.
After some consideration... I have the F.E.'s, as I am a former firefighter and have seen where they can be useful. Were I doing it all over again... I'd make sure I had a telephone extension or portable phone near the dragon somewhere... "911" preprogrammed into it.
I can tell you from experience... 10# Dry Chem is going to seem awful pathetic when you use it. You'll get about 10 seconds of discharge time... the saying is, "If the fire is bigger than you can fight with the extinguisher, trying is delaying the response of the big truckloads of water and hoses... "
I'd not do much before I made the call, if I thought it was something serious. A fire doubles in size every minute in a house. The ten minute response time from the fire department might be all you need to control it, or all it needs to become completely out of control. If they respond and it is controlled, that means they got to play with the siren and drive the big truck, and don't need to direct traffic, work hard, or get anything more dirty than it got driving there. Not that bad of a deal, unless it's three or four times a year for "I got it. It's out. Thanks."
If you think you're in trouble, you are. Make the call.
I can tell you from experience... 10# Dry Chem is going to seem awful pathetic when you use it. You'll get about 10 seconds of discharge time... the saying is, "If the fire is bigger than you can fight with the extinguisher, trying is delaying the response of the big truckloads of water and hoses... "
I'd not do much before I made the call, if I thought it was something serious. A fire doubles in size every minute in a house. The ten minute response time from the fire department might be all you need to control it, or all it needs to become completely out of control. If they respond and it is controlled, that means they got to play with the siren and drive the big truck, and don't need to direct traffic, work hard, or get anything more dirty than it got driving there. Not that bad of a deal, unless it's three or four times a year for "I got it. It's out. Thanks."
If you think you're in trouble, you are. Make the call.
What would you think about using argon? I have an extra argon bottle around at all times for shop use with a welder. It wouldn't take much to rig up a system that would shoot argon into a secondary air inlet for example. (I am of course thinking only of a chimney fire in this case) IE in the event of a chimney fire, 1) close up the stove 2) call 911 3) open the argon valve and leave the house. Crazy, or?
I know everybody wants to leave a burning building. But, it's snowing and cold out there in the winter. No chimney fires in the summertime around here. Big trucks, and call firemen are coming in from every direction, and the road is usually "slicker'n a smelt".
Just get your boots on, coat and hat in hand, and stand by the front door and wait for the fire department to get there... as long as the chimney is on fire, and the house isn't. Most commonly, that's the situation. The fire will be contained in the chimney, and may or may not burn itself out without hurting anything.
If you see smoke in the house, the house is on fire... Suppose you best walk over the the neighbors and ask to use the video camera to record the firefighters' efforts. Don't stay in a burning building.
Argon... hadn't thought of it... it's likely better to close off all the air supply and wait it out. Cut the airflow and the draft, and you cut the temperature of the fire. Be sure, absolutely sure, your clean out door is latched, and seals good... one place air gets directly into the chimney and provides mucho air flow for the chimney torch...
Seen those things with molten creosote running out around them because they were just stuck in the side of the chimney.
And, if you're like me... too much draft? Get the barometric damper installed and keep the clean out door closed and latched.
Just get your boots on, coat and hat in hand, and stand by the front door and wait for the fire department to get there... as long as the chimney is on fire, and the house isn't. Most commonly, that's the situation. The fire will be contained in the chimney, and may or may not burn itself out without hurting anything.
If you see smoke in the house, the house is on fire... Suppose you best walk over the the neighbors and ask to use the video camera to record the firefighters' efforts. Don't stay in a burning building.
Argon... hadn't thought of it... it's likely better to close off all the air supply and wait it out. Cut the airflow and the draft, and you cut the temperature of the fire. Be sure, absolutely sure, your clean out door is latched, and seals good... one place air gets directly into the chimney and provides mucho air flow for the chimney torch...
Seen those things with molten creosote running out around them because they were just stuck in the side of the chimney.
And, if you're like me... too much draft? Get the barometric damper installed and keep the clean out door closed and latched.
I fought fires for a number of years... want to know what happens when you spray hot water on a REALLY hot fire?
Someday, I'll take a picture of the back of my ears and post it...
STEAM! Lots and lots of STEAM! And it's freaking HOT. It'll go up the chimney, and back into your face... If you're holding an inch and a quarter attack line, in a fully involved living room, and don't break the thermal barrier before attacking the fire... it rolls along the ceiling over your head and comes from behind, and nails you. Burns your ears and comes up the back of your turnout coat... not very comfortable and causes some nasty scalds... hurts.
I came to really like 2 and a 1/2 inch attack lines with a task force tip... go to wide spray, turn it toward the ceiling and open it right at the top and come down onto the fire as you narrow the stream... busts the barrier and you don't get burnt... nice helmets then too, and bunker pants... Floor boots and leather helmets were good in their day
Best suggestion I've heard yet is a chunk of dripping wet newspaper... and then get the door closed, "RIKKI TIK!"
Other than that, shut the air off to it, and cool it off... a "controlled burn" in your chimney is less likely to damage things than an uncontrolled one... which will result from a door open too long...
Someday, I'll take a picture of the back of my ears and post it...
STEAM! Lots and lots of STEAM! And it's freaking HOT. It'll go up the chimney, and back into your face... If you're holding an inch and a quarter attack line, in a fully involved living room, and don't break the thermal barrier before attacking the fire... it rolls along the ceiling over your head and comes from behind, and nails you. Burns your ears and comes up the back of your turnout coat... not very comfortable and causes some nasty scalds... hurts.
I came to really like 2 and a 1/2 inch attack lines with a task force tip... go to wide spray, turn it toward the ceiling and open it right at the top and come down onto the fire as you narrow the stream... busts the barrier and you don't get burnt... nice helmets then too, and bunker pants... Floor boots and leather helmets were good in their day
Best suggestion I've heard yet is a chunk of dripping wet newspaper... and then get the door closed, "RIKKI TIK!"
Other than that, shut the air off to it, and cool it off... a "controlled burn" in your chimney is less likely to damage things than an uncontrolled one... which will result from a door open too long...
In the past 2 chimney fires I have had the pleasure of experiencing the best thing to do is close off any air to the stove, the same should apply to an out of control woodstove. DO NOT OPEN THE DOORS!
Some good info in this thread and some info that isn't quite right.
First off to the original poster . . . the quick answer as to what type to buy for your home. No question: ABC fire extinguisher. This is good for just about every type of fire you could expect to see in your home, it's easy to use and you can buy this type everywhere. As to what size . . . in general the bigger the better . . . the larger it is the more fire you can put out.
However, bear in mind that if you are using a fire extinguisher on a fire you should have a) called 911 to get professional help on the way (even if you think you can handle the fire), b) the fire should be smaller than you in size (if it's larger than you in general you should escape since the extinguisher may already be overmatched) and c) everyone in the area not using the extinguisher should be alerted and evacuating the area and d) do not use the extinguisher if you cannot stay below the layer of smoke.
There are many different types of extinguishers -- carbon dioxide, water, halon-substitute extinguishers, etc. but for the average home owner an ABC dry chemical extinguisher is the best all-around extinguisher to have around -- think of it as a Toyota Camry, Ford Taurus or Honda Accord in the fire extinguisher world. The other types are more or less specialized to certain needs -- think of them as the Volvo Box truck, Dodge Ram and Porsche Boxter (and not in any particular order) -- great vehicles/great extinguishers, but they're really made for specialized needs rather than just running the kids to soccer practice, picking up groceries, etc.
About the only drawback to the ABC dry chemical extinguisher is that it makes a wicked mess . . . it is made up of a very fine powder which can be hard to clean up (hint: use a shop vac with a dry wall filter . . . sweeping it up or vacuuming it up with a normal vacuum will result in powder flying everywhere.)
Contrary to belief, the chemical agent is not toxic or hazardous . . . but some chemicals have corrosive properties. Now I'm no expert, but if something can be corrosive I wouldn't advocate standing around inhaling great quantities of the stuff if you know what I mean. Folks who have respiratory problems, such as asthma, should not breathe in this stuff -- while not toxic, it isn't the best stuff to breathe in either and as a rule I don't like breathing in the stuff as it has an acrid taste/smell (trust me, I've breathed in a lot of this stuff over the many years teaching fire extinguisher classes.)
Incidentally, how the dry chemical works to extinguish a fire is a bit different than other extinguishers . . . the chemical basically breaks apart the chemical process which sustains the burning process vs. water which cools the ignition temp of the fire and carbon dioxide which suffocates the fire.
Oh yeah . . . as you no doubt know . . . the best thing for everyone involved is to not even have the fire in the first place by maintaining the stove (i.e. cleaning the chimney, proper disposal of ashes, etc.), installing the stove/chimney correctly (i.e. clearances, floor protection, etc.), running it properly (i.e. not over-firing it, forgetting to cut back the air, etc.) and knowing how your stove works and runs (i.e. knowing when and when not to add wood, cut back the air, etc.)
First off to the original poster . . . the quick answer as to what type to buy for your home. No question: ABC fire extinguisher. This is good for just about every type of fire you could expect to see in your home, it's easy to use and you can buy this type everywhere. As to what size . . . in general the bigger the better . . . the larger it is the more fire you can put out.
However, bear in mind that if you are using a fire extinguisher on a fire you should have a) called 911 to get professional help on the way (even if you think you can handle the fire), b) the fire should be smaller than you in size (if it's larger than you in general you should escape since the extinguisher may already be overmatched) and c) everyone in the area not using the extinguisher should be alerted and evacuating the area and d) do not use the extinguisher if you cannot stay below the layer of smoke.
There are many different types of extinguishers -- carbon dioxide, water, halon-substitute extinguishers, etc. but for the average home owner an ABC dry chemical extinguisher is the best all-around extinguisher to have around -- think of it as a Toyota Camry, Ford Taurus or Honda Accord in the fire extinguisher world. The other types are more or less specialized to certain needs -- think of them as the Volvo Box truck, Dodge Ram and Porsche Boxter (and not in any particular order) -- great vehicles/great extinguishers, but they're really made for specialized needs rather than just running the kids to soccer practice, picking up groceries, etc.
About the only drawback to the ABC dry chemical extinguisher is that it makes a wicked mess . . . it is made up of a very fine powder which can be hard to clean up (hint: use a shop vac with a dry wall filter . . . sweeping it up or vacuuming it up with a normal vacuum will result in powder flying everywhere.)
Contrary to belief, the chemical agent is not toxic or hazardous . . . but some chemicals have corrosive properties. Now I'm no expert, but if something can be corrosive I wouldn't advocate standing around inhaling great quantities of the stuff if you know what I mean. Folks who have respiratory problems, such as asthma, should not breathe in this stuff -- while not toxic, it isn't the best stuff to breathe in either and as a rule I don't like breathing in the stuff as it has an acrid taste/smell (trust me, I've breathed in a lot of this stuff over the many years teaching fire extinguisher classes.)
Incidentally, how the dry chemical works to extinguish a fire is a bit different than other extinguishers . . . the chemical basically breaks apart the chemical process which sustains the burning process vs. water which cools the ignition temp of the fire and carbon dioxide which suffocates the fire.
Oh yeah . . . as you no doubt know . . . the best thing for everyone involved is to not even have the fire in the first place by maintaining the stove (i.e. cleaning the chimney, proper disposal of ashes, etc.), installing the stove/chimney correctly (i.e. clearances, floor protection, etc.), running it properly (i.e. not over-firing it, forgetting to cut back the air, etc.) and knowing how your stove works and runs (i.e. knowing when and when not to add wood, cut back the air, etc.)
More random thoughts . . .
If I had a fire in a chimney or woodstove I most definitely would not want to add a lot of water to it with a pressurized water extinguisher, garden hose or buckets of water . . . as Leon mentioned water turns to steam and steam takes up a whole lot more space than the water. Adding a large amount of water (or even not so large amount of water) to a fire can lead to some pretty serious problems -- cracked chimney liner, cracked stove/stove parts, steam burns, etc. as that steam will quickly expand and fill up the space. I've heard of this happening as firefighters have "taken care" of a chimney fire by extinguishing it with a hose line . . . something I don't recommend . . . it puts out the fire quickly, but often damages the heating system.
If there is a fire in the chimney and I had access to a clean out (such as in a masonry chimney) I would use water . . . or a dry chemical extinguisher, but I would exercise some caution. A dry chemical extinguisher can be aimed into the clean out and touched off -- in theory the draft should pull the powder up to the fire. In a similar fashion one could use a small amount of water (a half cup at a time) and toss it on to any hot creosote that may have fallen into the clean out -- the water will turn to steam, be borne up by the draft and hopefully put out the fire.
If the fire was in the stove I would do as many others have mentioned -- keeping the door shut and cutting off all air supply and maybe, just maybe using Czar's wet newspaper in a bag trick as it should in theory slowly turn to steam. In any case, if in doubt I would call 911.
Spraying water/powder into the open firebox would be a bad idea in most cases as I would be concerned with a) the introduction of more oxygen to the fire and b) the very real possibility of hot coals being knocked out into the living area from the force of the extinguisher.
Placement of extinguishers: It's great to have an extinguisher, but be sure you can get to it quickly and it's in an area close to, but not to close to the most likely area of fire. In other words, having an extinguisher in a kitchen is probably a good idea . . . putting it right next to the oven might not be such a great idea. Likewise with having an extinguisher near a woodstove . . . but not having it right next to (or behind) a woodstove.
JohnM: In answer to your question. Carbon dioxide extinguishers are only rated for B and C fires (an excellent description of the various types and ratings by the way) . . . but they can be used for Class A fires as well according to the literature (my NFPA Fire Protection Handbook actually.) In the same way BC-rated dry chemical extinguishers are only rated for B and C fires, but in a pinch they can be used for Class A fires.
Size and rating: Some info given here isn't quite correct. Extinguishers rated for Class A fuels (ordinary combustibles such as paper, plastic, wood, etc.) are given a rating of 1A to 40A. 1A is equivalent to 1 1/4 gallons of water (even if the extinguisher is not a water extinguisher). A 2A extinguisher simply puts out twice the amount of fire that a 1A extinguisher can put out . . . and a 10A rated extinguisher will put out 10 times as much fire as a 1A extinguisher. For Class A ratings there is no direct size (square footing/size of the fire, etc.) equivalency . . . in other words you cannot say a 1A20BC rated extinguisher will only put out 1/20th of a Class A fire compared to the same BC type of fire.
To continue with the ratings . . . the B rating (flammable liquids and gases) does have a size correlation. 1B = 1 square foot. The belief is that a non professional could put out 1 square foot of material on fire with an extinguisher rated 1B. So a 10B rated fire extinguisher could put out 10 square feet of fire in theory, a 20B rating would put out 20 square feet, etc.
The C rating has no number . . . having the C rating simply means that the extinguisher can be used on electrical fires as it is non conductive.
If I had a fire in a chimney or woodstove I most definitely would not want to add a lot of water to it with a pressurized water extinguisher, garden hose or buckets of water . . . as Leon mentioned water turns to steam and steam takes up a whole lot more space than the water. Adding a large amount of water (or even not so large amount of water) to a fire can lead to some pretty serious problems -- cracked chimney liner, cracked stove/stove parts, steam burns, etc. as that steam will quickly expand and fill up the space. I've heard of this happening as firefighters have "taken care" of a chimney fire by extinguishing it with a hose line . . . something I don't recommend . . . it puts out the fire quickly, but often damages the heating system.
If there is a fire in the chimney and I had access to a clean out (such as in a masonry chimney) I would use water . . . or a dry chemical extinguisher, but I would exercise some caution. A dry chemical extinguisher can be aimed into the clean out and touched off -- in theory the draft should pull the powder up to the fire. In a similar fashion one could use a small amount of water (a half cup at a time) and toss it on to any hot creosote that may have fallen into the clean out -- the water will turn to steam, be borne up by the draft and hopefully put out the fire.
If the fire was in the stove I would do as many others have mentioned -- keeping the door shut and cutting off all air supply and maybe, just maybe using Czar's wet newspaper in a bag trick as it should in theory slowly turn to steam. In any case, if in doubt I would call 911.
Spraying water/powder into the open firebox would be a bad idea in most cases as I would be concerned with a) the introduction of more oxygen to the fire and b) the very real possibility of hot coals being knocked out into the living area from the force of the extinguisher.
Placement of extinguishers: It's great to have an extinguisher, but be sure you can get to it quickly and it's in an area close to, but not to close to the most likely area of fire. In other words, having an extinguisher in a kitchen is probably a good idea . . . putting it right next to the oven might not be such a great idea. Likewise with having an extinguisher near a woodstove . . . but not having it right next to (or behind) a woodstove.
JohnM: In answer to your question. Carbon dioxide extinguishers are only rated for B and C fires (an excellent description of the various types and ratings by the way) . . . but they can be used for Class A fires as well according to the literature (my NFPA Fire Protection Handbook actually.) In the same way BC-rated dry chemical extinguishers are only rated for B and C fires, but in a pinch they can be used for Class A fires.
Size and rating: Some info given here isn't quite correct. Extinguishers rated for Class A fuels (ordinary combustibles such as paper, plastic, wood, etc.) are given a rating of 1A to 40A. 1A is equivalent to 1 1/4 gallons of water (even if the extinguisher is not a water extinguisher). A 2A extinguisher simply puts out twice the amount of fire that a 1A extinguisher can put out . . . and a 10A rated extinguisher will put out 10 times as much fire as a 1A extinguisher. For Class A ratings there is no direct size (square footing/size of the fire, etc.) equivalency . . . in other words you cannot say a 1A20BC rated extinguisher will only put out 1/20th of a Class A fire compared to the same BC type of fire.
To continue with the ratings . . . the B rating (flammable liquids and gases) does have a size correlation. 1B = 1 square foot. The belief is that a non professional could put out 1 square foot of material on fire with an extinguisher rated 1B. So a 10B rated fire extinguisher could put out 10 square feet of fire in theory, a 20B rating would put out 20 square feet, etc.
The C rating has no number . . . having the C rating simply means that the extinguisher can be used on electrical fires as it is non conductive.
I was a volunteer firefighter for years, and I'll just second what most say: have a big ABC rated extinguisher. I also like to have a PW (pressurized water) around, for something quick like if you get some hot embers on the carpet and need to cool it off fast. The PW will just make it wet, and not all chemical-mess.
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