Fire won't damper down - Englander 30

[Jayu]

Ok Guys,
Got a problem. I have a Englander 30 that I installed 2 weeks ago and it won't seem to damper down the fire. When I fill it with wood and close the damper all the way I still get a lot of flame. If I fill it with wood it will burn out of control and burn all the wood in aboutr 3 hours. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference between wide open and closed. I'm assuming this means air is getting in from some where but I'm not sure how to figure out where. The stove is brand new. I'm thinking about duct taping the air intake hole to see if that makes a difference. The flue consists of 5 feet of 6 inch pipe going into a 6 to 8 inch reducer to the chimminy. Any suggestions?

One thing to add. Is it possible air is coming in from the flue connectiion at the top of the stove? I noticed a small indentation at the seam of the stove pipe connecting to the top of the stove. There is no smoke coming from here though.

Thanks

 

[ControlFreak]

Sounds like air may be leaking in from somewhere:
Door gasket
Gasket around the glass (if any)
Other gaskets
If you can't find any leaks from the outside, then maybe the best thing to do would be to clean it out on the inside and look for any possible gaps in the construction.

Do you have a thermometer on the stove? Just how hot is it getting? It is not abnormal for the new stoves to get REALLY hot on the inside when they're burning. If you're accustomed to an older stove with a smoky, smoldering fire, then a new stove may seem to you like it's out of control after it gets going. If you don't have a thermometer on there, go get one, otherwise it's all guesswork.

If you have an air leak at the connection between the pipe and the stove, it's just going to suck in fresh air and reduce the draft in the stove. It's not going to leak smoke into the room.

That's 2 cents for free.

Dan

 

[edthedawg]

Check out https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/30030/

Hopefully BrotherBart and some others will pick up on this, too...

Might recommend putting "Englander 30" somewhere in the title, to attract those stove owners' attention.

Definitely sounds like an air leak in from somewhere, but I'll let ppl more experienced with this particular stove chime in.

2 more cents. Also free. Good luck and don't overfire your stove!

 

[begreen]

Here's another thing to check, secondary manifold leak. See Bart's post #5.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/6361/

 

[crazy_dan]

Put there 5 star cutomer service to the test and call Mike up at englander or shoot him an E-mail
E-mail
[email protected]

 

[Jayu]

I don't believe it's over firing but it is burning wood pretty quickly. I'll go buy a thermomitor and see. The chimminy is probably about 20-30 feet. Two stories worth.

 

[Rockey]

I had to add a pipe damper on my flue to control my Englander 30 in my basement. It seemed to help since I have about 40' of flue conncted to it definitely doesn't get the same burn time as my smaller catalytic insert. I never checked all the gaskets since it was new but I guess I'll go back and check over it.

 

[SlyFerret]

Sounds like you have really good draft with that chimney.

I'll have to agree that it sounds like you might have a leak somewhere, but...

When you close down the air on the 30 all the way, you're still not closing it down all the way. The air to the secondary tubes is fixed, as is the air that comes out of the zipper (that little dog house thing in the front).

Stove top temps will tell the real story. When my stove is cruising, I'll see stove top temps (measured a few inches in front of the flue collar) of anywhere from 550 up to about 650. Occasionally I get up to 700 or so, but I try not to let it get quite that hot.

When you say it burns all the wood in about 3 hours... what exactly do you mean? The reason I ask is that the flames on mine usually go out after about 3-4 hours as well, but I continue to get heat after that for a while. There is a lot of heat left in the wood when it starts to reach the coaling stage. Just because there are no bright visible flames doesn't mean that the burn cycle is complete yet.

Sounds like your fuel is well seasoned. Glad to hear you're not fighting with a stove that isn't performing due to green wood.

-SF

 

[Jayu]

Humm....After reading this maybe it's ok. You say the "dog house" doesn't close down? That's where I see most of the air coming from. If I have coals in front of zipper you can see the coals glowing red from air blowing on them when the damper is closed.

What I mean by "burns all the wood" is that is burns to coals but there is still hot coal burning. And the wood is well seasoned.

 

[karri0n]

That dent in your stove pipe sounds like an air leak to me, but without a pic I wouldn't be able to say for sure.

 

[fossil]

If the stovepipe connection to the flue collar isn't airtight, then all that will happen is that air will be drawn into the flue at that point, diluting and cooling the gas stream from that point up. It won't directly affect the firing rate of the stove. It won't increase the draft the stove firebox experiences, in fact, it might decrease it somewhat. A little dab of furnace cement will seal it right up, in any case. Rick

 

[SlyFerret]

Something that BB and I have been playing around with lately involves trying to cut down on air supply to the zipper.

I picked up a pair of 1" diameter disc magnets at the hardware store. The intakes for the zipper are two ~1/2" holes on the bottom of the stove, just a little bit behind the front legs.

My draft isn't super strong, so I find my stove burns better as it was designed. BB on the other hand, especially for N/S burns, found that covering those intakes helps to make the stove behave a little better for him.

You could try covering one or both, or maybe partially covering one or both. $2.50 at the hardware store for a couple magnets makes it a pretty cheap experiment.

When the 30 is running the way it wants to run, with good secondary combustion, it really looks like the pits of hell in there. I'm interested in knowing your stovetop temps when you get a thermometer.

Definitely check your gaskets though too. If you have a leak, it can cause the stove to want to run away.

-SF

 

[Jayu]

Found the two holes. While under there I found another square hole in the back just above the air intake and under the blower. What's that for? The smoke tubes? I just loaded it up and closed the damper and it's burning like the fires of hell in there. Is there supose to be a lot of fire when this stove is damper? My last stove was a small Lopi that when I dampered it down there was almost no fire. Could it be that I'm just not use to the new stoves? Going out to buy a stove thermomitor now. I'll report back when I have the temperatures.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

Question???

Did you ever take your fire bricks out?

Which direction is your door handle pointing?

Does it look like this picture?

 

[Jayu]

I did take the fire bricks out. The stove looks just like picture.

 

[Hiram Maxim]

I did take the fire bricks out. The stove looks just like picture.

Good!

Now take a look and see if there is a fire brick obstructing the locking arm from going all the way down into the recess.
This can cause the door to look locked closed and actually remain open a little so that the seal on the door has a slight or very little gap.
This would/can cause to much air to enter the firebox and produce conditions similar to whats happening to you.

When my close friend removed his firebrick for weight reduction he re-installed the firebrick incorrectly and he was going through wood at a fast rate.

Also one of the firebricks has an angle (missing piece) and that brick goes on the right side facing the stove for the locking arm clearance into the locking recess.

Not sure if the part terms are correct but in my firearms design and part nomenclature mind That's what they are called.lol

 

[SlyFerret]

Yeah, when the secondaries are firing, it will look like the pits of hell. That's how the stove burns so clean. If your stovetop temp is in the right range, you'll know it's doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing. All that smoke is being reburned inside the firebox instead of going out your chimney.

Once the wood is done gasifying, the bright flames will go out. There isn't much smoke in the charcoal stage, but there's still quite a bit of heat.

-SF

 

[Jayu]

SlyFerret,
That could be what's happening. I haven't been able to find a stove thermometer yet. Appears everyone has sold out for the season. But, after observing the last few days, what happens is that the fresh wood burns like crazy for 15-30 minutes then the flames die out and the stove opperates more like I'm use to. I'll keep looking for a thermometer and give Englander support another call.

 

[dougand3]

If you need a thermometer fast....Grocery Stores or Wally World have oven thermometers for ~$4. Take tin snips to the bottom stand and it will lie flat on your griddle and/or you can wire it to your stove pipe by nicking the metal flange, then 360 deg of wire around pipe. They only go to 600 deg F, tho.

 

[SlyFerret]

I bought a hand held IR thermometer from Harbor Freight for about $40. It's much more accurate than the little magnetic guys. The magnetic ones are good to get a feel for where in your burn cycle you are once you get the hang of your stove. I don't put much faith in the numbers on the magnetic ones.

If you get one of the IR thermometers, make sure that it will read up to about 900 degrees or so. Many of the cheaper ones won't read high enough to be useful with a wood stove.

-SF