Fireplace Insert - Newbie

[NewbieHomeowner]

Newbie homeowner here and new to fireplaces in general. I'm looking into installing a wood fireplace insert into our den's fireplace. The den is rather large (almost 600 square feet) with 14 foot cathedral ceilings. The room is always cold and it's not something that can be fixed with my current HVAC setup. (I'm sure the 14 ceiling doesn't help).

A friend recommended that get a fireplace insert to heat the room. I've been doing my research online but I still don't quite get how it differs from a regular fireplace. I understand that they are more efficient. But do they light the same way? Do I have have to constantly tend to the fire while its burning? Is it as messy? I was told to expect to spend around $5000.00. Before I take the plunge, I need to know what I'm getting into.

 

[jatoxico]

Hi Newb. Inserts and stoves are vastly superior in their heat output and generally take less feeding and tending than an open fireplace. In an open fireplace you have virtually no control over the burn because you can't control the air. Fireplaces can actually result in a net heat loss if you are using another central heating system at the same time.

Modern inserts allow you to control the amount of air and burn the smoke extracting much more heat from the same amount of fuel while allowing you to extend the burn time from a load of wood. Six hrs and more is easily attained depending on what unit you get.

Post what your current system consists of. Is it interior masonry w/ clay lined flue or exterior zero clearance with a chase or whatever. With that info you can determine some of your options and possible limitations. Also realize that new stoves (inserts) require good dry fuel in order to function properly. That means the wood typically needs to be split and stored under good conditions for a year or more.

Incidentally your buy in could be a fair bit less as the big box store units are (for once) actually pretty good w/ good customer service.

 

[NewbieHomeowner]

Thanks for the quick reply. It's a masonry fireplace with a clay lined flue. The fireplace itself is 38 inches wide 29 1/2 wide.

How does one light a fire in an insert? Same way in a regular fireplace?

While I have your attention, the previous owners left behind what I'm guessing is a about a half cord of wood in the backyard. Previous owners said that stopped using the fireplace a few years back. Can wood be too old? Some of the pieces of wood look like bugs and moss have taken up residence.

 

[Ctwoodtick]

Thanks for the quick reply. It's a masonry fireplace with a clay lined flue. The fireplace itself is 38 inches wide 29 1/2 wide.

How does one light a fire in an insert? Same way in a regular fireplace?

While I have your attention, the previous owners left behind what I'm guessing is a about a half cord of wood in the backyard. Previous owners said that stopped using the fireplace a few years back. Can wood be too old? Some of the pieces of wood look like bugs and moss have taken up residence.

Firewood, properly stored off ground on pallets or the like, preferable top covered, can last many years. The wood you are describing sounds rotten and not good for burning. I have had an insert for 3 yrs now. It easily heats my 1600 sq ft, 2 story house. I started with an open fireplace like you and made the plunge due to price of electric heat. Got to say, I love making firewood and gaining heat from my hard work is a real pleasure. That said, from the sounds of it, you will very likely have to wait till next winter to have good firewood to use in an insert, or fireplace for that matter. Having wood dry properly for a good year not only makes it easier to burn, but decreases the build up of creosote in chimney, which can cause fires. If you are dealing with very dense woods like oak, hickory, etc you will need 2 yrs to dry.
Last thing I want to do is be a downer here, but I have learned a lot in last few yrs. first thing is that you have to be able to dedicate the time, space, and hard physical work to heating with wood. Making firewood has become a new hobby of mine in last few yrs. I can tell you that if you harvest or buy firewood with plans on burning it within a few months you will hate the results. Never, ever, ever believe someone trying to sell you "seasoned wood". 99 percent of the time, you will get wood that is no better than freshly cut. Always buy wood with the plan of stacking it and letting it be for a good year.
But your thought of getting an insert is a good one, you will get more heat than for just that one room. hope it works out for you

 

[jetsam]

I've been doing my research online but I still don't quite get how it differs from a regular fireplace. I understand that they are more efficient. But do they light the same way? Do I have have to constantly tend to the fire while its burning? Is it as messy?.

A fireplace is a big hole in the wall. You light a fire in it, get a strong thermal updraft, and all the warm air that your home heating system makes blows out the hole. It's very pretty and it feels warm to stand in front of, but it's probably cooling your house down more than it's warming it up.

An insert blocks off that hole. You light a fire in it and it warms the room. It does this partly with radiant heat, and if you have a fan it will pull room air in, warm it by blowing it over the stove, and blow it back out again. The difference is massive.

You light them more or less the same way; a wood insert is a little more complex than a fireplace.

Constant tending depends on the desired heat output and the type of insert. I tend mine once or twice a day depending on the temperature; I'm expecting that to go up to 3 times a day if winter ever decides to actually kick in!

Wood heat is messy, but a stove that you load once or twice a day makes a lot less mess than one you load 3 or 5 times a day.

If you value efficiency, cleanliness, and ease of use more than anything, you may want to look at an efficient gas insert. Burning wood is a bit of a labor of love. (Me, I love getting a workout and a warm house for free at the same time!)

If you really do want to burn wood, read up on the types of wood burning stoves/inserts before you do anything else. In particular, decide if you want a catalytic insert, a non-catalytic insert, or a scary old no-secondary-combustion insert, which could be a great choice if you value the workout over the heat, especially if you never need to sleep. Start here!

 

[FPX Dude]

I'd look at a wood stove into an alcove or fireplace, and then an insert, in that order.

 

[NYSB]

I had a similar situation when we moved into our house a few years back. We had a built-in masonry fireplace which was in good repair, and we did make some use of it - mostly for the fun and ambiance. That's about an open fireplace gives you - they really are not intended to provide serious heat for your home. Initially, we just wanted to dress up the fireplace with perhaps a new mantel and stone surround. Then we discovered this world of wood stoves and decided to get a wood stove along with the new mantel and stone. We wanted the heat output and efficiency of a true wood stove, but we did not desire a stand-alone stove which would require a lot more space and redecorating. We ended up with a wood stove insert. These are self-contained units which slide into your old masonry firebox. Since there is less surface area in the room to radiate heat, most come with a blower fan to help circulate the heat in the home. The installation requires some modification to your old damper and a stainless steel liner from the insert all the way up to the top of the chimney. There are a couple of reasons why wood stoves are so much more efficient than a fireplace. One is that once they are lit, you close the door and it becomes a "sealed" system - meaning you control how much air is going in and it doesn't suck all the warm air out of your house. Some stoves can even be installed such that they draw outside air for combustion. So the primary combustion is more controlled. Second, the newer stoves have mechanisms to "re-burn" the smoke that normally comes out of your fireplace chimney. It turns out that there are a lot of flammable compounds and particulate matter contained in the smoke of the burning wood - that represents an awful lot of wasted heat going right up your fireplace chimney. One way is to design the firebox so that the temperature stays 1000 degrees or more, which is hot enough to ignite the combustibles in the smoke - these are called "non-catalytic" stoves. Another way is to build the stove with a catalyst - much like the catalytic converter in your car - which lowers the temperature at which the smoke ignites. Either way, you get a slower more controlled burn (primary combustion) with re-ignition of the smoke (secondary combustion) which creates much more heat. Another benefit is that once the stove reaches operating temperatures they produce essentially no visible smoke from the chimney and much less smokey smell. So your neighbors will still like you.

These stoves are serious heating appliances. They do look nice and you get all the ambiance and fun of burning wood, but they can also heat your home in a very substantial way. They also need to be installed by a qualified person and in many locations (like where I live) a permit is needed prior to installation and the home inspector will need to check it out before signing off on it.

I really enjoy the whole process of obtaining the wood (I scrounge what I have time for and buy the rest), lighting the stove, and tending to it. It's a lot of fun and we can keep out house much warmer with wood compared to how we run the thermostat with our central natural gas furnace.

Good luck!

 

[jatoxico]

How does one light a fire in an insert? Same way in a regular fireplace?

Yes you light them more or less the same way. Once you've done it a couple times you'll figure the basic start-up for your unit. At the most basic it involves starting the fire with the primary air fully open. Once the fire begins to establish you shut the primary air down in stages allowing the fire to re-establish each time until you get to the desired setting. New stoves have one of two types of secondary burn systems to burn the smoke. The stove needs to be at operating temp to do this. A ball park for the stove top is about 500F.

Can wood be too old? Some of the pieces of wood look like bugs and moss have taken up residence.

As already mentioned properly stored wood can last a long time. Wood that has been allowed to accumulate leaves and debris will hold moisture and will rot sooner or later depending on species. Many folks idea od a wood pile is a pile of rounds that need to be split. Rounds really don't dry unless they are small.

I would guess that there is some usable wood in your pile. If it has been split restack it on some pallets or something to keep it off the ground. Some may need to be tossed but even having some punk is OK if the heart wood is still solid but it must be allowed to dry. If you have any way of covering do it but only top cover. A shed or overhang would be ideal.

If the wood is still in the round it must be split and won't do you much good for sure this year. There are brick products and other things you can do to get you through your first season but I would cross that bridge later. First is research and install.

PS the door I bring my wood in is close to the stove. I don't find wood to be terribly messy. but it depends on your set up. A wood box or other helps contain any mess and a good sturdy covered metal bucket for ash is essential for safety.

 

[Squire]

I carry my wood inside using 5 gallon buckets. I started this when my wife complained about having to clean up the debris every time I brought in wood. Problem solved. I'm retired so I have plenty time. Happy wife Happy life

 

[begreen]

The main differences are heat output, emissions and fuel consumption. . This is because the open fireplace takes in gobs of room air and sends them up the chimney. An insert has a door and a tightly controlled air supply. The combustion in an open fireplace is uncontrolled. It gets all the air it needs to burn robustly. A lot of the wood gases are unburnt and go up the chimney. In a modern insert the fire is controlled by the air supply. Secondary combustion burns up the waste gases. A modern insert can burn 50 times cleaner or more! That allows it to put out more much heat using much less fuel.

 

[NewbieHomeowner]

Thanks for all info!

 

[Spikem]

There has been a lot of good information in this thread.

For an idea on the price, I had an insert installed in 2009 (a Quadra Fire 3100) and it heats the house well for us. One thing you absolutely will need to have on one is a blower. This will enable you to more efficiently heat your house than just with the radiant heat the insert will provide on its own.

Other things you'll need to price are a chain saw and a splitter. Some might suggest you can get away with renting a splitter but, at $50/day (and up), you can quickly lose a lot of the financial savings by renting. I would not suggest going crazy and buying the highest price splitter and chain saw, just that these are things you'll need to figure on (long-term) for whether burning is for you.

And I'm not even going to talk in depth about the man-hours you'll put into bucking, splitting, stacking, etc...