Fireplace or so I thought- thoroughly confused?

[ndgregor]

Hello,

I posted on here previously about a covered fireplace in my circa 1850 farm house. Now that I am moved in, I am investigating further and am quite confused.

The first two pictures show the basement, where there is a hole roughly 5” in diameter running into the chimney. I thought maybe this was an ash dump but I don’t think it is. There also appears to be a concrete pad on the floor. On the side view you can see the chimney starts to curve outward slightly.

The next picture is taken by sticking my hand into the hole and directing it upwards in the chimney. Now the firebox should be directly above me by only about a foot or two at the most. However, the chimney looks like it just runs straight up. I don’t understand where the firebox would be for the fireplace?

I am beginning to wonder if someone just put a decorative mantle up, and there is no fireplace at all. Seems kind of odd to me, but people do weird things all the time. However my next question is what would this chimney have been built for in the first place? Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions?

Thanks,
Nick

 

[Ludlow]

Was a coal furnace venting into it. How wide is it at the top?

 

[ndgregor]

I haven’t been on the roof yet. Here is a picture from the exterior.

 

[Ludlow]

Im thinking that maybe way back in the day, the owner got tired of freezing to death and knocked the floor of the firebox out, closed off the opening, poured a concrete pad in the basement, installed a coal furnace and vented it into the chimney. Doesnt seem to be enough width in that up top to have had two separate flues.

 

[bholler]

As i have said before that mantle definitely is not a mid 19th century mantle so it is very possible there was never a fireplace in that location. But at that point there also was really not much of any Central heating either so a crock in the basement doesn't make sense either. Really the only way to know for sure is to open things up. it

 

[spudman99]

Yup, you gotta open it up to see. Remember that back in the days there were no building codes, and there were not that may tradesmen who had reference resources to see how things should/could be built. It was a lot of 'seat of the pants' construction; or do what I did last time cause it worked.

In my 1900's former house there is a 2 story brick chimney encased on plaster. It stops on the first floor, there literally is nothing supporting it in the basement. Foundation is a rubble stone with sand mortar. I have no idea how the floors hold the weight, but they do and have for 120 years. One part I did open up and look at had a 4" clay feeder pipe, I assume the chimney was used for pot belly stoves as heat in the very early time period.

Decorative mantles are not unusual, it could have been moved there from a different part of the house if the owner liked the feature when closing off or repurposing an existing chimney elsewhere in the dwelling.

 

[showrguy]

Is this house in Shippensburg ??

 

[Ludlow]

You can see the coal soot streak running down from the hole in the wall. That and the pad tell me what was there. The fireplace isnt restorable for use IMO.

 

[bholler]

If it was originally a fireplace I am pretty sure it could be made functional again. But from the pics I am not sure it ever was.

 

[ndgregor]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I will be removing the mantle, so I will see what is behind and post. If the fireplace is not repairable I plan to just sheetrock over the area that the mantle currently resides. It is a waste of space for me as is. The goal is to do something with it if money permits. The fact that I can't see the firebox when looking up the chimney is very odd to me, and it looks like it would be huge money to get it back into service (need to be lined and have a firebox installed).

The house is not in Shippensburg, near Allentown PA.

It just seems odd to me that such a large chimney would have been constructed in 1850 to vent a coal fired furnace.

 

[begreen]

I'm curious to see what you find behind the mantel. It's proximity to the door is an odd location for a fireplace or stove. Is the floor plan still the original 1850 layout?

 

[ndgregor]

No, the home was remodeled at one point. I think that the wall was added to segment the two rooms more. There is no door, just that 2 foot wall on each side of the room to separate the living room from dining room.

 

[barnaclebob]

Maybe faux closed up fireplaces have started to become a design trend.

 

[Hogwildz]

Def a coal furnace was in the basement. Back in the day that was the main source for heat in PA. PA coal is some of the best there is. Was cheap, and throws a shitton of heat. My money is that you find a wall behind that "fake" fireplace. Although it may be possible someone tied a wood stove into the flue where the fireplace is.

 

[bholler]

Def a coal furnace was in the basement. Back in the day that was the main source for heat in PA. PA coal is some of the best there is. Was cheap, and throws a shitton of heat. My money is that you find a wall behind that "fake" fireplace. Although it may be possible someone tied a wood stove into the flue where the fireplace is.

I am sure you are right that there was a coal furnace run through the chimney at one point. But we see tons of them from this time period that were run through an old fireplace sometimes 2. My only reason to doubt it was originally built for a furnace is that 1850 is pretty early for a central furnace. They were out there but pretty uncommon and extremely expensive.

 

[Ludlow]

Is there a hearth extension in the floor in front of that mantle? Look in the floor structure from the basement and see if it was removed and if the floor was framed in. Should be pretty appearent if there was.

 

[jetsam]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I will be removing the mantle, so I will see what is behind and post. If the fireplace is not repairable I plan to just sheetrock over the area that the mantle currently resides. It is a waste of space for me as is. The goal is to do something with it if money permits. The fact that I can't see the firebox when looking up the chimney is very odd to me, and it looks like it would be huge money to get it back into service (need to be lined and have a firebox installed).

The house is not in Shippensburg, near Allentown PA.

It just seems odd to me that such a large chimney would have been constructed in 1850 to vent a coal fired furnace.

Some early coal furnaces were quite literally room-sized. I base this statement on a house that I used to live in, where they had decided that it was easier to move all the ductwork to the next room than to tear out the coal furnace- so they left it there for future generations to marvel at, and put a gas furnace in the next room over. Redoing the ductwork must have been no small undertaking in that large house. Thing was huge.

Look at all the windows downstairs and you'll probably find one that used to be the coal chute.

 

[Ludlow]

My Dad used to tell me stories of coming home from school and shoveling 3 ton of coal through the little basement window in my grandparents house into the little block room they referred to as the "coal cellar". I remember as a kid going down with my Pap and "banking" the fire. Good times.

 

[ShawnLiNY]

It’s possible the fire place area was an alcove for a small parlor coal stove

 

[Hogwildz]

I am sure you are right that there was a coal furnace run through the chimney at one point. But we see tons of them from this time period that were run through an old fireplace sometimes 2. My only reason to doubt it was originally built for a furnace is that 1850 is pretty early for a central furnace. They were out there but pretty uncommon and extremely expensive.

Furnaces yes, coal stoves on the other hand, they were cheap & plentiful. Many in my extended family still use huge coal stoves in basement to heat the whole house. My family members have acquired some really huge industrial coal stoves over the years. Makes a BK King look like a mini marine stove. They will burn wood in them until it is really cold out, otherwise the coal heat will overpower the house.