FireplaceX review and woes

[Laualie]

Hi all - I've been reading the forum posts for awhile as I got ready to install a new wood insert. I was hoping to make my first post a review of the medium flush insert from FireplaceX but I've also run into an issue or two I was hoping to get some insight on.

First the review: The unit was installed last December 2019 in our 1200 sqft two story Cape Cod in south Minnesota with the maiden voyage taken on Christmas Day. I hired out the installation and a stainless steel liner was put through my 25' foot external chimney with no block off. After the first couple of slow burns to break it in the unit worked great. I would fire it up from cold and the cat thermometer would reach operable temp in 15 minutes or so. It drafted well and I would close the baffle and slow the air to get a great show from the secondaries - my oldest calls them ghost flames. The whole house is heated pretty well with no input from the furnace down into the single digits outside.

I haven't found a good way to take firebox temps so have been relying on the cat thermometer, for better or worse. I had that up to 1300 degrees once but have otherwise kept that between 900 and 1100 for the most part. I could get around 4-5 hours of good heat from a load of seasoned red elm that tests at 17-20% on my $10 meter. I'd wait until the ember bed had depleted a bit before reloading and the wood would take off pretty quickly and be back up to cat temps within 10-15 minutes. Up to this point I have been very satisfied with the unit.

Now the other side: A couple of weeks ago I noticed the secondaries were not as prevalent and we didn't see the ghost flames nearly as much. The fire seems to burn less evenly with most heat looking like its generated at the center of the stack of logs and its been harder to get it up to running temp. Even when it is humming it seems like it does not throw off as much heat. It takes longer to start from cold and on a re-load; I have to really baby it to get it hot enough to close down the baffle (or flu? still working on terminology). Its been largely a weekend heater so it hasn't seen anything near 24/7 use. I pulled a couple of the tubes and the baffle and the latter is warped about 1/2" across the span with one of the tubes being out of round as well.

It seems like a draft issue but I haven't been up to the top yet to see if creosote build up in the span of 6 weeks is the culprit though that seems unlikely. It's possible there is something else blocking up top, but I'm wondering if the warped baffle (possibly from overfiring) or something else around the insert could be the issue.

Any thoughts would be very welcome.

 

[mpaul]

Have you tried cleaning out the cat yet? I find when my stove gets a little sluggish that it’s time to take a vacuum to the cat.

 

[Laualie]

I have not taken the vac to it yet, I've brushed it off periodically. I had it out when I checked out the other components and it looked pretty good, but I'll try the vac next.

 

[jetsam]

I had to look this one up. It's a 2.2cf hybrid (cat + secondary tubes) stove.

1) Check your cap. Bird mesh on the cap getting plugged up is super common and can happen in days of burning wet wood.

2) Also sounds like wet wood. Has your wood quality changed recently?

3) A 1/2" deflection in a tube should not be normal- I don't know if it's a common issue with this stove, but that leads us into

4) The brochure for this stove says 10 hour burn times. Brochures are of course terrible liars, but you saying that you get 4-5 hours on the top end plus melted internal components make me think that you have an air leak. Do the dollar bill test on the door gasket (with a cool stove, close the door on a dollar bill and try to pull the bill out. It should be hard. Do this multiple times, all the way around the door.)

 

[Laualie]

Thanks for doing better with the specs than me Jetsam - that's my unit.

Looking at the mesh with a pair of binocs it doesn't look at all clogged. Not as good as getting up there with a ladder but I don't think that's the issue.

The 1/2" warp is in the baffle plate, the tube is not that bad.

I have been using the same wood since the beginning. When I split a piece and stick my tester in I never get anything higher than 20%. That being said I have noticed some splits will bubble moisture a bit at the end when firing. My tester might be too cheap or I have a mixed load and haven't tested a wet one yet.

I did the dollar bill test today and there is one spot at the top of the door where I can pull the bill out - the rest of the door feels like I'll have to rip the bill before it will come. When the fire gets going there is a faint whistle near the top - I thought it was coming from the top vent but could be the door? Is that level of leak enough to give me the problems I'm having?

 

[jetsam]

Moisture meters should be used on a fresh split face at room temp- so let a larger split warm up indoors overnight, then split it again and immediately retest it on the fresh-split face. 20% wood does not hiss and bubble water out the end.

I am not sure if a 1/2" deflection in the baffle is normal. On a 1 year old stove, only burned on weekends, I hope the answer is no. Hopefully some of your fellow owners will speak up.

I would pursue that air leak. Was it easy to pull the bill out on the top, or still pretty hard?

It's odd that we're chasing an air leak in a "stove isn't making enough heat" thread- usually those are "stove is making too much heat" threads.

Next time you have the cat out, hit it with the shopvac, and use a flashlight to peer through it and make sure it's not partially plugged.

 

[Laualie]

I'll re-test on the splits I have in for the night tomorrow.

The bill came out with some resistance, but was not difficult to pull.

I will check the cat out, though a clogged cat wouldn't explain the difficulty in getting a fire going when the bypass is open, right? That seems like a draft issue and the only things I can think of that would have changed from the beginning (when things were running well) is the flue opening being blocked (possibly by burning wet wood) and the warp on the baffle plate and tube. The flue was sealed where it met the stove with some kind of compound - if this went bad and created an opening at that joint would that reduce draft? Sorry, I know I'm grasping at straws here a bit.

Insert is only a month and a half old, so its making me a little crazy.

 

[jetsam]

If your flue was going to get blocked by creosote, the cap would plug first. If the cap's mesh is clear, the flue probably isn't very dirty either.

Yes, with the cat bypassed, it wouldn't matter if the cat was clogged.

Yes, an opening in the flue reduces draft (because now the flue can pull from the stove and the room) and increases creosote (because the room air cools the flue). Post a picture of where the flue meets the stove?

Is it possible that the baffle is positioned wrong and blocking airflow to the cat? Not familiar with that stove, but bad baffle board or blanket placement is a frequent offender.

The most common issue for new burners is a wet wood.

 

[Buzzsawboy]

Well this is scary seeing how I'm having the same stove installed today. I would contact the installers but that's just me. Please keep us updated. It's getting late in the season but I plan on doing a review after we get ours up and going. There seems to be a lack of decent reviews out there.

 

[Laualie]

Yes, an opening in the flue reduces draft (because now the flue can pull from the stove and the room) and increases creosote (because the room air cools the flue). Post a picture of where the flue meets the stove?

Is it possible that the baffle is positioned wrong and blocking airflow to the cat? Not familiar with that stove, but bad baffle board or blanket placement is a frequent offender.

The most common issue for new burners is a wet wood.

Attached a pic of the flue connection - you can see the compound used to seal it. There was a spot in the back out of sight that felt odd so I used a short length of 14 gauge wire to poke around and there is a gap around 3/16" wide and an inch long in the connection. I was able to stick the wire in and move it around quite a bit. Need to figure out what was used and seal it back up.

Not a huge hole - though I'm not experienced enough to know what kind of impact his could have. It looks like the liner may have settled leaning left, some of the compound was pushed into the opening on the left.

Baffle doesn't look like its blocking the cat, and its sitting evenly under the bypass opening too. I attached a pic of the baffle at the left rear part of the firebox where I think it should be resting on the rear air tube, that distance between is warp. Buzzsawboy, can you confirm?

I split two large pieces from the wood box next to the fireplace - 17% and 20% on the moisture meter. There is some wet wood in the load (occasional piece bubbles at the end) but I don't think its the majority.

Also took a pic of liner just for fun.

 

[jetsam]

Jeez, angle bracket and self tapping sheet metal screws into the stove and furnace cement everywhere... I don't know what is even going on there. @bholler ?

Edit: I just checked the manual and it calls for 3 angle brackets and furnace cement. My bad there, but it does look like you could use a straight connection and a new cement job.

I think I see enough airspace in there for at least some dilution air to be entering the flue (which is terrible for both draft and creosote). Could you post close ups of that joint all the way around?

17% wood shouldn't be bubbling out water unless it just has surface moisture from getting wet recently while the middle is dry.

 

[FPX Dude]

Weird, but seems to be wood moisture related, you shouldn't have any bubbling coming off. As for gasket, if it's not sealed good, it's really hard to control and you can't shut it down very good, sometimes you have to move it around to make it fit just right.

 

[Dmitry]

Attached a pic of the flue connection - you can see the compound used to seal it. There was a spot in the back out of sight that felt odd so I used a short length of 14 gauge wire to poke around and there is a gap around 3/16" wide and an inch long in the connection. I was able to stick the wire in and move it around quite a bit. Need to figure out what was used and seal it back up.

Not a huge hole - though I'm not experienced enough to know what kind of impact his could have. It looks like the liner may have settled leaning left, some of the compound was pushed into the opening on the left.

Baffle doesn't look like its blocking the cat, and its sitting evenly under the bypass opening too. I attached a pic of the baffle at the left rear part of the firebox where I think it should be resting on the rear air tube, that distance between is warp. Buzzsawboy, can you confirm?

I split two large pieces from the wood box next to the fireplace - 17% and 20% on the moisture meter. There is some wet wood in the load (occasional piece bubbles at the end) but I don't think its the majority.

Also took a pic of liner just for fun.

I have Large Hybrid, same issue with baffle, but mine wrapped more. It got wrapped the first year after couple fires. I called the store and they suggested that I bring the baffle to them and they would make it straight with hummer. LOL. I did it myself, put it back and after couple fires, my baffle was warped exactly the same way. I think it's a metal quality issue. The good thing is that cat placed in a metal housing that airtight all around and there is no way for smoke and heat to go around even with warped baffle, so I just gave it a rest. You can try to make them give you a new baffle. Some guys here did it. My dealer was not willing to do it. But I didn't insist much.

 

[Laualie]

Update: The dealer came out and re-applied furnace cement to the connection at the top of the insert - much of what is in the pic above came off just by pulling on it. I let the new cement cure for 24 hours and then started with a cool fire and over 4-5 hours built up the heat - as instructed by the manufacturer of the cement.

The result was a return to normal. The whistling sound I had been hearing was gone, fires started up quickly after reload, things burned more evenly and secondaries were beautiful.

The next night I loaded a cold box, and when it started rolling, the whistling was back and things reverted back working poorly again. So I am pretty certain this is a sealing issue - apparently the insert needs a really good seal to work right, though furnace cement doesn't seem to me like the kind of material to make a good seal. What probably needs to happen is a full removal and re-seal. These stoves get sealed at the stove and where the flex liner goes into the collar. It seems if the seal at the stove went bad, that the one in the collar could have as well. I'm waiting to hear back from the dealer.

If anyone has any experience dealing with this issue, I'm all ears.

 

[Laualie]

Well this is scary seeing how I'm having the same stove installed today. I would contact the installers but that's just me. Please keep us updated. It's getting late in the season but I plan on doing a review after we get ours up and going. There seems to be a lack of decent reviews out there.

How has yours been running?

 

[webby3650]

Jeez, angle bracket and self tapping sheet metal screws into the stove and furnace cement everywhere... I don't know what is even going on there. @bholler ?

Edit: I just checked the manual and it calls for 3 angle brackets and furnace cement. My bad there, but it does look like you could use a straight connection and a new cement job.

I think I see enough airspace in there for at least some dilution air to be entering the flue (which is terrible for both draft and creosote). Could you post close ups of that joint all the way around?

17% wood shouldn't be bubbling out water unless it just has surface moisture from getting wet recently while the middle is dry.

There’s a few other people around here that know something about installs. Especially Lopi

 

[Dmitry]

Update: The dealer came out and re-applied furnace cement to the connection at the top of the insert - much of what is in the pic above came off just by pulling on it. I let the new cement cure for 24 hours and then started with a cool fire and over 4-5 hours built up the heat - as instructed by the manufacturer of the cement.

The result was a return to normal. The whistling sound I had been hearing was gone, fires started up quickly after reload, things burned more evenly and secondaries were beautiful.

The next night I loaded a cold box, and when it started rolling, the whistling was back and things reverted back working poorly again. So I am pretty certain this is a sealing issue - apparently the insert needs a really good seal to work right, though furnace cement doesn't seem to me like the kind of material to make a good seal. What probably needs to happen is a full removal and re-seal. These stoves get sealed at the stove and where the flex liner goes into the collar. It seems if the seal at the stove went bad, that the one in the collar could have as well. I'm waiting to hear back from the dealer.

If anyone has any experience dealing with this issue, I'm all ears.

I went through the same thing. The stove was whistling when hot. It was not crazy but really annoying. I applied and reapplied cement several times and it was always cracked after a couple of hot fires no matter what I did. Finally, I got some gasket rope with glue from lowes and sealed with it. been 3 years now, no whistle.

 

[Laualie]

I went through the same thing. The stove was whistling when hot. It was not crazy but really annoying. I applied and reapplied cement several times and it was always cracked after a couple of hot fires no matter what I did. Finally, I got some gasket rope with glue from lowes and sealed with it. been 3 years now, no whistle.

Did you notice a change in how the stove functioned? I can live with the whistle but not the reduced performance.

 

[webby3650]

Attached a pic of the flue connection - you can see the compound used to seal it. There was a spot in the back out of sight that felt odd so I used a short length of 14 gauge wire to poke around and there is a gap around 3/16" wide and an inch long in the connection. I was able to stick the wire in and move it around quite a bit. Need to figure out what was used and seal it back up.

Not a huge hole - though I'm not experienced enough to know what kind of impact his could have. It looks like the liner may have settled leaning left, some of the compound was pushed into the opening on the left.

Baffle doesn't look like its blocking the cat, and its sitting evenly under the bypass opening too. I attached a pic of the baffle at the left rear part of the firebox where I think it should be resting on the rear air tube, that distance between is warp. Buzzsawboy, can you confirm?

I split two large pieces from the wood box next to the fireplace - 17% and 20% on the moisture meter. There is some wet wood in the load (occasional piece bubbles at the end) but I don't think its the majority.

Also took a pic of liner just for fun.

The stovetop adaptor needed to be cut down so the hub sits tightly against the stove top. As it is, not only is there a big gap, but the adapter is barely inserted into flue collar. Lopi has a small ear that prevents the adaptor from interfering with the bypass rod. To do it properly, a notch is made to straddle this ear and some of the crimp gets cut off so the hub sits down nicely. Then furnace cement gets applied.

 

[Dmitry]

Did you notice a change in how the stove functioned? I can live with the whistle but not the reduced performance.

I didn't notice much improvement, but maybe I had a smaller hole. My whistle became louder when I closed the air intake. Is this your case as well?

 

[Laualie]

I didn't notice much improvement, but maybe I had a smaller hole. My whistle became louder when I closed the air intake. Is this your case as well?

It seems loudest with the baffle and air both open. Closing things down seems to make it quiet down.

 

[webby3650]

How tall are your liners? 25’+?

 

[Dmitry]

This doesn't seem right. If you have a poor seal, more should be sucked into hole when making stove tighter. But again, who knows, maybe it whistles less with more air.

 

[webby3650]

It’s very common for Lopi inserts to whistle, usually with liners exceeding 25’.

 

[Laualie]

Webby - 25' liner.

Dmitry - When I fire it up from cold with the door open to get it going, the whistle starts in when I close the door. This is when there are big flames roaring up the opening. As I close the air down, the flames action decreases and so does the sound. For whatever that's worth.