Fireview smokey first fire

[greenhat]

Hello everyone!

My first post on this super helpful site.

I'm a complete wood stove noob, so please take it easy on me

After doing a lot of research (mostly on this fine site), I just got my first stove - Woodstock Fireview . I struggled to find someone local to install it, so installed it myself.

Today was the first fire.. it was going well at first - i checked the draft and it seemed decent. Started the fire with some newspaper and kindling..threw in a small split or two... had damper on 4 at first; but, switched it to 2 as soon as the fire got going (as the manual suggests).... waited for over an hour , and the stove top temps were not going above 150.. kept feeding the fire with one more small split at a time when i saw the wood inside burning up.. 2 hours passed, still have not even reached 200.... so, i tried to add a bunch of wood in - 3 medium size split pieces.... in a few minutes the fire got serious and smoke started coming out of the stove.. mostly it was smoking around the flue and 90 degree elbow...

I have a few guesses of what could be the problem, but these are just guesses:

1. it's a new stove and the smoke is just fumes from new paint.
(in the manual it just states that it will smell bad, says nothing about smoke)

2. i did not connect the 90 elbow with the flue properly and / or the rest of the connector pipes..
(i just used screws provided with the pipes to connect; however, the flue did not come with screws , so i used screws from one of the spare connector pipe)

3. problem with not sufficient draft . my pipe is 12.5 feet total (from flue to top of the chimney) .. Woodstock recommends a 14 foot pipe.. I did not calculate the length properly when I ordered at first, and then was told to give it a try . I was able to get the fire going without problems.

Any suggestions or comments are greatly appreciated.




Thank you in advance

 

[Shari]

Chimney too short & a 90 degree instead of two 45's ?????

 

[Todd]

Welcome aboard, you bought a great stove. By the sounds of it your chimney is a little too short and sounds like you could have a draft problem. What kind of chimney are you exhausting the stove into, metal or clay tile? Is it the same size diameter as the stoves exhaust collar? Also check your horizontal run of pipe after your 90 and make sure there is a slight rise as it connects into your chimney.

How's your firewood? Dry wood is a must for this stove and needs to be cut, split and stacked at least a year out or more for best results.

Your first couple fires should be small breakin fires with lots of kindling and a few small splits, let it get going good with lots of air and let it burn completely out. You may see some smoke from the stove paint and pipe as it cures, this is normal. You may also see the soapstone sweat or sizzle as the moisture is driven from the stone. 150-300 stove top temps are fine for breakin fires. Try to get a little hotter as you go, after 2-4 fires you should be good to go.

It may take some trial and error for the first couple weeks to figure out your stove. Stay in touch and ask questions, there are plenty of good people here to help you out. Oh, we also like to see pictures.

 

[LLigetfa]

After doing a lot of research...

3. problem with not sufficient draft . my pipe is 12.5 feet total (from flue to top of the chimney) .. Woodstock recommends a 14 foot pipe..

Perhaps not quite enough research. It sounds like a through-the-wall, outside flue. Outside flues run colder so have less draft. The addition of two right angle turns subtract from the effective height of the chimney. You need to add additional height for each bend. This has been well covered here often.

Have you tested for negative pressure by opening a window? How dry is the wood?

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Today was the first fire.. it was going well at first - i checked the draft and it seemed decent. Started the fire with some newspaper and kindling..threw in a small split or two... had damper on 4 at first; but, switched it to 2 as soon as the fire got going (as the manual suggests).... waited for over an hour , and the stove top temps were not going above 150.. kept feeding the fire with one more small split at a time when i saw the wood inside burning up.. 2 hours passed, still have not even reached 200.... so, i tried to add a bunch of wood in - 3 medium size split pieces.... in a few minutes the fire got serious and smoke started coming out of the stove.. mostly it was smoking around the flue and 90 degree elbow...

I have a few guesses of what could be the problem, but these are just guesses:

1. it's a new stove and the smoke is just fumes from new paint.
(in the manual it just states that it will smell bad, says nothing about smoke)

2. i did not connect the 90 elbow with the flue properly and / or the rest of the connector pipes..
(i just used screws provided with the pipes to connect; however, the flue did not come with screws , so i used screws from one of the spare connector pipe)

3. problem with not sufficient draft . my pipe is 12.5 feet total (from flue to top of the chimney) .. Woodstock recommends a 14 foot pipe.. I did not calculate the length properly when I ordered at first, and then was told to give it a try . I was able to get the fire going without problems.

Welcome to the forum Greenhat and congratulations on a great stove.

1. The first thing you need to do is some burn-in fires with the Fireview. Here is how we did ours:
a. Put kindling in the stove and light it. Let this burn until it goes out completely. Let stove cool a bit.
b. Put kindling in and one or two very small splits. Light fire and let burn until it goes out. Let stove cool.
c. Put in kindling, add at least 3 splits and light fire. Let burn and get stove up to at least 400 degrees (turn the cat on at 250 stove top). If needed, add a split or two to get to that temperature

After you have done those 3 fires, most of the smoke smell should be gone from stove and flue pipe.

2. Can you explain your install please? Do you go straight up or out through the wall and then up? You state a 90 elbow. Is this the only elbow? You state you did not connect the elbow properly. How did you connect this elbow? What about the rest of the connector pipe?


Your chimney is shorter than recommended but mine is also and I get along just fine. But some installations need the extra length. Don't forget to add 2-3 feet per elbow, so if you have 1 elbow and 12' of chimney, you effectively have only 9-10 feet of chimney.

Finally we now come to one of the biggest points of all. Please explain what you are using for fuel. You can have the installation perfect in all ways but if you do not have good fuel, no stove will operate correctly. This could also explain some of the smoke issues but more than likely it is just the finish burning off the stove pipe and stove.

 

[greenhat]

Thank you everyone for such helpful responses!
After stressing out all last night, and staying up until 4am to make sure the fire is out, it was a very pleasant surprise to see all these posts in the morning.


Here's more info:

What kind of chimney are you exhausting the stove into, metal or clay tile? Is it the same size diameter as the stoves exhaust collar? Also check your horizontal run of pipe after your 90 and make sure there is a slight rise as it connects into your chimney.

the chimney is metal and it's the same diameter as the exhaust collar. I purchased everything from Woodstock and followed their installation advice all the time. I have no horizontal run.. 90 degree elbow goes right into my exhaust collar and the pipe goes straight up to the support box and chimney.

How's your firewood?

so far, i just bought a bundle of hardwood (not sure which one, it just says "seasoned hard wood" ) from Home Depot .. it seemed to burn really well. will order a cord as soon as I figure this thing out a little.. still not sure whether to get 16" or 18" logs.. Fireview manual suggests 16", but there is definitely room for 18". what do you guys think? what do you use?

Your first couple fires should be small breakin fires with lots of kindling and a few small splits, let it get going good with lots of air and let it burn completely out. You may see some smoke from the stove paint and pipe as it cures, this is normal. You may also see the soapstone sweat or sizzle as the moisture is driven from the stone. 150-300 stove top temps are fine for breakin fires. Try to get a little hotter as you go, after 2-4 fires you should be good to go.

this is probably my issue, i think.. The manual mentioned "small fires", but it didn't exactly specify what that means. As a complete wood stove noob, i have no perspective. The stove top almost reached 350 , when smoke/fumes started. It seemed that most of the fumes were coming out directly from the bend in the elbow (which is where a lot of paint collects).

It may take some trial and error for the first couple weeks to figure out your stove. Stay in touch and ask questions, there are plenty of good people here to help you out. Oh, we also like to see pictures.

thank you for the encouraging words.. will post pictures soon. hopefully with a house still standing around the stove

After doing a lot of research...
3. problem with not sufficient draft . my pipe is 12.5 feet total (from flue to top of the chimney) .. Woodstock recommends a 14 foot pipe..

Perhaps not quite enough research. It sounds like a through-the-wall, outside flue. Outside flues run colder so have less draft. The addition of two right angle turns subtract from the effective height of the chimney. You need to add additional height for each bend. This has been well covered here often.

well.. i don't think there is ever enough research.. can always do more
My installation is very basic - nothing is going though a wall and there are no 2 right angles (not sure where this came from in your post).. Just a 90 elbow coming out of the flue collar, this is connected to a 38-70 adjustable single wall pipe, which is connected to the chimney adapter coming out of the support box. It's a straight shot the whole way up.. This picture shows exactly what my install looks like:
(broken link removed to https://store.woodstove.com/xcart/supportimages/WoodstoveCKpitchedLG.jpg)

As I mentioned earlier, when I was buying the pipe from Woodstock, I did not realize how much of the chimney pipe is going to go inside the support box.. so, i miscalculated the total pipe length and got 12.5 instead of 14 feet.. I can easily correct this problem by ordering another 18 inches of chimney pipe, but people in Woodstock (who, btw, have been extremely helpful and courteous) suggested I try it out with the current setup first and see if there is a problem.. I checked the draft and it seemed ok.. Also, had no problem starting the fire .. smoke/fumes started only when the fire got big.

Have you tested for negative pressure by opening a window? How dry is the wood?

my window was open to vent out the smell from the curing paint. I dont have a way to measure the dryness of the wood, but this was a $6 bundle i got from Home Depot - looked very dry to me and had no problems burning.

 

[greenhat]

Welcome to the forum Greenhat and congratulations on a great stove.

Thank you! your posts helped me select it

1. The first thing you need to do is some burn-in fires with the Fireview. Here is how we did ours:
a. Put kindling in the stove and light it. Let this burn until it goes out completely. Let stove cool a bit.
b. Put kindling in and one or two very small splits. Light fire and let burn until it goes out. Let stove cool.
c. Put in kindling, add at least 3 splits and light fire. Let burn and get stove up to at least 400 degrees (turn the cat on at 250 stove top). If needed, add a split or two to get to that temperature

After you have done those 3 fires, most of the smoke smell should be gone from stove and flue pipe.

This is great info.. I wish I read that somewhere before.. My first fire was much more (c.) than (a.) or (b.).. Im thinking this is probably the problem.. and the smoke is just fumes from the paint. Since I already did the (c.) fire, what would you suggest to do next? go back to a and b, or do another couple of c's?

2. Can you explain your install please? Do you go straight up or out through the wall and then up? You state a 90 elbow. Is this the only elbow? You state you did not connect the elbow properly. How did you connect this elbow? What about the rest of the connector pipe?

my install looks exactly like the picture in my previous post - very basic (no bends, no attic, just a straight shot to the roof).
i have 2 concerns about my elbow connection:
1. I may have used smaller screws than needed (there were no supplied screws for this connection, so i used extra screws from the regular connector pipe)
2. It may not be a perfect 90 degrees (maybe about 95)

Also, i've seen some pictures (on this forum posted by Todd) where it looks like there is some sort of caulk sealing the connection:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/ind...43991_WTkNkWTwBAb27Q52Xcp7&thumb=1&board_id=1

Should i do something like this? I've tried to find information on this everywhere , but without much luck.

Your chimney is shorter than recommended but mine is also and I get along just fine. But some installations need the extra length. Don't forget to add 2-3 feet per elbow, so if you have 1 elbow and 12' of chimney, you effectively have only 9-10 feet of chimney.

does this include the elbow from the flue collar? this is the only one i have. how long is your chimney?

Finally we now come to one of the biggest points of all. Please explain what you are using for fuel. You can have the installation perfect in all ways but if you do not have good fuel, no stove will operate correctly. This could also explain some of the smoke issues but more than likely it is just the finish burning off the stove pipe and stove.

i think the wood is good .. at this point, i think it is the finish burning.. is this normal to actually see the fumes?

Thank you again for your time and valuable advice.

 

[LLigetfa]

...there are no 2 right angles (not sure where this came from in your post)...

That was an incorrect assumption on my part then. In my mind's eye, I saw an elbow going into a wall thimble so the Tee I saw outside was the second bend. Blows my first theory on the poor draft then. Also, the open window blows my theory on the negative pressure.

Could you maybe have gone overboard with burning paper and partially clogged the spark screen on the cap? Wind direction WRT to roof lines or trees? Wind direction WRT to open window on leeward side? Was open window at same level as stove or upstairs?

Smoke could have been partially from paint burning off and maybe some puffing from putting more wood onto a hot base and choking it back too fast.

 

[greenhat]

Could you maybe have gone overboard with burning paper and partially clogged the spark screen on the cap?

anything is possible.. but , as I mentioned before , im a complete noob.. i have no idea what overboard is... i burned about 8 to 10 pages of a regular size newspaper before i got the kindling going.. i also, held some burning newspaper for about a minute or two close to the flue collar to warm it up and get the draft going (as was suggested by people at Woodstock).
how do i check if i clogged the spark screen on the cap? .. i dont really what what that is or if i have one

Wind direction WRT to roof lines or trees? Wind direction WRT to open window on leeward side? Was open window at same level as stove or upstairs?

Smoke could have been partially from paint burning off and maybe some puffing from putting more wood onto a hot base and choking it back too fast.

wind direction was the same to the roof like as to windows.. about 45 degrees blowing in..
windows were open about the same level as the stove .. plus a foot or two..


im almost convinced at this point that the smoke is just the fumes from the paint.. im just wondering if this is normal..

 

[begreen]

Open some windows, get the stove top up to about 550. See if the condition gets better over time with each fire. If it does, it is the paint and oils baking in and will disappear soon. If not, keep us posted.

(Pictures of your new baby would be nice too!)

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Welcome to the forum Greenhat and congratulations on a great stove.

Thank you! your posts helped me select it

1. The first thing you need to do is some burn-in fires with the Fireview. Here is how we did ours:
a. Put kindling in the stove and light it. Let this burn until it goes out completely. Let stove cool a bit.
b. Put kindling in and one or two very small splits. Light fire and let burn until it goes out. Let stove cool.
c. Put in kindling, add at least 3 splits and light fire. Let burn and get stove up to at least 400 degrees (turn the cat on at 250 stove top). If needed, add a split or two to get to that temperature

After you have done those 3 fires, most of the smoke smell should be gone from stove and flue pipe.

This is great info.. I wish I read that somewhere before.. My first fire was much more (c.) than (a.) or (b.).. Im thinking this is probably the problem.. and the smoke is just fumes from the paint. Since I already did the (c.) fire, what would you suggest to do next? go back to a and b, or do another couple of c's?

2. Can you explain your install please? Do you go straight up or out through the wall and then up? You state a 90 elbow. Is this the only elbow? You state you did not connect the elbow properly. How did you connect this elbow? What about the rest of the connector pipe?

my install looks exactly like the picture in my previous post - very basic (no bends, no attic, just a straight shot to the roof).
i have 2 concerns about my elbow connection:
1. I may have used smaller screws than needed (there were no supplied screws for this connection, so i used extra screws from the regular connector pipe)
2. It may not be a perfect 90 degrees (maybe about 95)

Also, i've seen some pictures (on this forum posted by Todd) where it looks like there is some sort of caulk sealing the connection:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/ind...43991_WTkNkWTwBAb27Q52Xcp7&thumb=1&board_id=1

Should i do something like this? I've tried to find information on this everywhere , but without much luck.

Your chimney is shorter than recommended but mine is also and I get along just fine. But some installations need the extra length. Don't forget to add 2-3 feet per elbow, so if you have 1 elbow and 12' of chimney, you effectively have only 9-10 feet of chimney.

does this include the elbow from the flue collar? this is the only one i have. how long is your chimney?

Finally we now come to one of the biggest points of all. Please explain what you are using for fuel. You can have the installation perfect in all ways but if you do not have good fuel, no stove will operate correctly. This could also explain some of the smoke issues but more than likely it is just the finish burning off the stove pipe and stove.

i think the wood is good .. at this point, i think it is the finish burning.. is this normal to actually see the fumes?

Thank you again for your time and valuable advice.

Thank you Mr Greenhat. Happy to be of assistance. No doubt Woodstock is happy too. lol

On the break-in, if I were you, because you did basically the last one, I'd do that one more time and consider it broke in after that.

On the caulk, you are probably seeing the furnace cement. I always put furnace cement in every place where the single wall (or if you use dbl wall) connects, especially at the stove. It can be purchased at most hardware stores but get as small amount as you can. I use a small putty knife to put it on and for clean-up all you need is a wet rag and the excess will wipe right off. Of course you also use 3 screws in each connection. On the screws, #6 or #8 self tapping screws work well.

On measurement for height you would measure from the bottom of your elbow. Our setup goes straight through the wall (with approximately 1/2" rise per foot of horizontal) into a tee and then up. For the life of me I can't remember for sure what the total height is but it is less than 13'. I realize this is not supposed to work especially when one realizes that our outside SS chimney is not encased in a chase. Well, the stove operates wonderfully.

However, if our wood was less than ideal I do expect we would have to extend the chimney and perhaps encase it but we do make sure we have good dry wood. If you are on this forum long you will no doubt see some of the guys ribbing me a bit because of our large wood supply. Today I put some 7 year old wood on the porch (this is where we keep what we burn next). Yes, I do believe everyone would have much better experiences with burning wood if they kept their wood supply at 2-3 years before burning. Longer does not harm.

Good luck to you.

 

[greenhat]

Thank you Mr Greenhat. Happy to be of assistance. No doubt Woodstock is happy too. lol

i hope so.. they deserve it..my experience with them has been perfect , so far...

On the caulk, you are probably seeing the furnace cement. I always put furnace cement in every place where the single wall (or if you use dbl wall) connects, especially at the stove. It can be purchased at most hardware stores but get as small amount as you can. I use a small putty knife to put it on and for clean-up all you need is a wet rag and the excess will wipe right off. Of course you also use 3 screws in each connection. On the screws, #6 or #8 self tapping screws work well.

furnace cement - makes perfect sense.. I knew i had to seal the connections somehow, but i looked through every single instructions and could not find anything.. Is it common practice? can / do people run their stoves without the sealing with cement?

also, is it easy to take apart after the cement is applied ? according to the manual, i have to inspect the pipe twice per year .. which involves taking it apart.

However, if our wood was less than ideal I do expect we would have to extend the chimney and perhaps encase it but we do make sure we have good dry wood. If you are on this forum long you will no doubt see some of the guys ribbing me a bit because of our large wood supply. Today I put some 7 year old wood on the porch (this is where we keep what we burn next). Yes, I do believe everyone would have much better experiences with burning wood if they kept their wood supply at 2-3 years before burning. Longer does not harm.

Good luck to you.

what's your take on bundled wood from a chain hardware or grocery store? are they usually dry enough ? they claim to be.. but , what do i know.


Once again, thank you for all the tips !

 

[greenhat]

Did a 2nd take few hours ago. Got it to 250 in about an hour this time. Then to 350 in about 30 minutes. Got some fumes , but not as many as the first time (mostly from 200 to 250).. I'm pretty sure that the fumes were coming out of the elbow bend (lots of paint gets stuck there).. Have some new questions / concerns:

1. the wall on the right side of the stove (door side) is getting really hot.. almost too hot to the touch.. probably around 150 degrees if I were to guess.
I did listen to all the suggested clearances, but went close to the minimum. Attached is a pre-chimney picture that I send to Woodstock to confirm that I got the clearances right .
Is 150 degrees too much for the wall? I think it is.. any suggestions? should i replace the sheetrock with some sort of cement board?


2. I read on this forum that the CAT gets red and i've seen some videos of stoves where fire is dancing at the top. At what temperature does this start to happen? my fire does not look all that much different when I open the CAT lever (forgot the proper term) at 250 degrees.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Don't worry about the furnace cement as that will come right off when you remove the pipe, which you may or may not have to do. For inspection, can you look down from the top? The very top of the chimney will be the worst part. Normally close to the stove you have only fly ash and a little bit of soot. If you do have creosote, you can blame the wood for that and that will be a wake up call to get your wood way ahead of time.

The bundled wood may or may not be dry. I do believe many places now insist it is kiln dried or at least partially so. Around our parts I've seen some great wood bundled and also some very green wood bundled. Regardless, all I've ever seen was very small pieces. Most small enough that I would not want to fill the stove with them. For longer burns and burns you can control better you need some bigger splits. One more thing is that you probably do not know what kind of wood you are buying in those bundles. It does pay to know what you are burning because different wood burns at different rates. Some burn hotter and faster while others not so hot but give you good long burn times. That is why it would be wrong to pay the same price for poplar as you would for maple or oak. That is why you would be wrong for paying the same price for soft maple vs. hard maple. There is a big difference.


An hour to get to 250 is not bad but we normally reach that point within 45 minutes. We can do it faster (from a cold stove) but it is not good to heat up that stone really fast. Still, we take our time and still turn the cat on usually by 45 minutes; sometimes less. Part of that is how you load the stove for start up. We do it a bit different from others.

If you are concerned about the wall, you can add some drywall or cement board to what you already have. An air gap between the two is great too.

The cat may or may not glow red but that does not tell you if it is working or not. It seems the older the cat gets the less it does get red but it still is working. When it was newer it seems the cat got red anywhere from 10 - 30 minutes after engaging. Sometimes it would glow sooner if we dialed the draft way back to almost closed. I wonder if your stove has the new steel cat? If so, those can be engaged at 200 degrees. But they just started putting the new steel cats in this fall so you probably have the ceramic cat like ours.

 

[greenhat]

Don't worry about the furnace cement as that will come right off when you remove the pipe, which you may or may not have to do. For inspection, can you look down from the top? The very top of the chimney will be the worst part. Normally close to the stove you have only fly ash and a little bit of soot. If you do have creosote, you can blame the wood for that and that will be a wake up call to get your wood way ahead of time.

sounds good.. will get that done.. as for wake up call for getting wood ahead of time - i'd much rather just take your word for it, but i cant go back in time

The bundled wood may or may not be dry. I do believe many places now insist it is kiln dried or at least partially so. Around our parts I've seen some great wood bundled and also some very green wood bundled. Regardless, all I've ever seen was very small pieces. Most small enough that I would not want to fill the stove with them. For longer burns and burns you can control better you need some bigger splits. One more thing is that you probably do not know what kind of wood you are buying in those bundles. It does pay to know what you are burning because different wood burns at different rates. Some burn hotter and faster while others not so hot but give you good long burn times. That is why it would be wrong to pay the same price for poplar as you would for maple or oak. That is why you would be wrong for paying the same price for soft maple vs. hard maple. There is a big difference.

got it.. great advice, will be ordering a cord of oak.

An hour to get to 250 is not bad but we normally reach that point within 45 minutes. We can do it faster (from a cold stove) but it is not good to heat up that stone really fast. Still, we take our time and still turn the cat on usually by 45 minutes; sometimes less. Part of that is how you load the stove for start up. We do it a bit different from others.

3rd fire yesterday.. i'm kind of getting the hang of it.. i got the stove to 250 quickly (within 45 minutes).. and was able to get the whole thing to 500.. barely any fumes this time, so at this point, im sure it was just from the paint.

If you are concerned about the wall, you can add some drywall or cement board to what you already have. An air gap between the two is great too.

im going to try to play around with pipe shield first.. the hot spots on the wall are exactly where the shield is not covering the pipe (mostly around the elbow area). if this doesn't work, i will have to build an extra cement board wall with an air gap.

The cat may or may not glow red but that does not tell you if it is working or not. It seems the older the cat gets the less it does get red but it still is working. When it was newer it seems the cat got red anywhere from 10 - 30 minutes after engaging. Sometimes it would glow sooner if we dialed the draft way back to almost closed. I wonder if your stove has the new steel cat? If so, those can be engaged at 200 degrees. But they just started putting the new steel cats in this fall so you probably have the ceramic cat like ours.

the cat was red yesterday.. and i saw the fire dancing on top.. sweet..
i found out that i do have one of the new steel cats..

here's the pic of it burning