Fireview vs Encore NC

[Slow1]

Ok - I know this is apples to oranges in many ways and everyone will have opinions, but I'm looking to compare a rather specific aspect of these two stoves and want some feedback.

What I'm wanting to understand here is the heat output. I'm looking at the published specs of these stoves and trying to understand if they are comparable in terms of how much heat they pump out if running at full tilt (without pushing overfire condition).

Fireview specs say:

Firebox: 14.5" x 13" x 20" (Which I calculate to be approx 2.1cuFt)
Area Heated: 900-1600 square feet
Max Heat Output: 55,000 BTU's/hr
Heat Output (EPA Test Method): 10,800 - 42,100 BTU's/hr
EPA Efficiency: 72%

Encore NC specs say:

Firebox Volume 2.1 cubic feet
Heating Area (Max) 1900 sq. ft.
BTU/h (Max.) 40,000 BTU
BTU/hr Range EPA Test Method 10,600-24,050 BTU/hr
Efficiency 68 %

What confuses me here is that the Fireview has higher rated heat output (both Max and EPA test method range) yet lower "Area heated" spec) than the Encore.... What gives here? Just a more conservative estimate by the company to avoid disappointment by customers?

I realize I'm comparing a NC versus a Cat stove... such is life

Secondary question/comment - I assume the difference in rated efficiency is likely moot given that operator style will make a larger difference than that 4% rated differential there...

In case you are wondering, yes I am building a fantasy about changing stoves. Not so much a "I don't like my Encore" - I actually like it quite a bit, but more a desire to find a stove that can I can run myself - i.e. I can let run all day on a load and not have to rely on others in household to feed. (And I'd like to really get an overnight burn). I call it a fantasy of course since the loss I would take in changing stoves would be crazy financially - I don't even know how much $ value my Encore lost in one season of burning...

 

[Highbeam]

The max heat output of any stove is meaningless since it requires filling it with kindling and operating it wide open. Who does that?

The heated space item is set by the manufacturer. I would be much more confident in the woodstock figure than the VC number though they are so close that they should be considered equal especially when considering that the firebox sizes are equal.

Efficiency doesn't matter in this context. The difference between 68% and 72% is about the amount of energy in a fart. Efficiency figures are not dependable and often the default EPA figure is used. In the case of the fireview I expect that it is actuallymuch higher along the lines of the blaze king cat which tested above 80%.

Why do you want a different stove. Do you need more heat, longer burn time, a better design? Your VC has lost value not just in that it is now a used stove but also because the company continues to tank. If it works for you then you might as well keep it.

Your post calls out a longer burn which almost everyone wants. The woodstock will give you a longer burn by virtue of the cat.

 

[Slow1]

What I don't like right now that I hope to improve is longer burn time (everyone likes this as you said), but more importantly, easier re-load and operation. I have figured out how to get clean operation with my stove, but it seems that it is rather touchy and should not be this difficult.

My wife has thrown her hands up in the air and basically will only feed the stove if it has a very large bed of coals and can toss in splits and re-engage the damper right away. No patience for building up from small pile of coals and 'fiddling with' the air etc. With the Encore NC frankly I have a hard time getting it to engage the everburn some time and will walk back and find the flue temps falling (and thus know it is smoking) when it should not have been, then have to open it up to get it heated up again before re-engaging it again. End result is that during the day the stove is not being run well if I'm not there and even when I am there I am not happy with the amount of time I have to spend watching it. I should be able to load it and leave it. I don't expect this to be only 2x a day (12hr burn times) but I would settle for 3-4x a day if running 24hrs.

From what I have read it seems that with a good cat stove I can expect that she would be able to learn how to feed the stove and get clean burns quicker. Thus for mid-day feedings my wife should be able to get comfortable with 'hot loading' the stove as well and not have to fear smoking out the neighborhood or overfiring from walking away with bypass open trying to re-heat stove and retry engaging everburn. Is this a myth? Am I just suffering from "grass is always greener on other side of the fence" syndrome?

Reason I'm asking about heat output comparison is that the amount of heat we get from the stove we have seems about right for our home. This has frankly surprised me as it is under-sized by all the estimates I've read. We only expected it to supplement and it seems we could use it as primary.

 

[Highbeam]

From what I have read it seems that with a good cat stove I can expect that she would be able to learn how to feed the stove and get clean burns quicker. Thus for mid-day feedings my wife should be able to get comfortable with 'hot loading' the stove as well and not have to fear smoking out the neighborhood or overfiring from walking away with bypass open trying to re-heat stove and retry engaging everburn. Is this a myth? Am I just suffering from "grass is always greener on other side of the fence" syndrome?

I understand that a cat stove will extend your burns above all non-cat designs. The grass is indeed greener in that regard. The operation of the cat stove is somewhat more complicated than most non-cat stoves but it is predictable and can be learned.

I also understand that any non-cat stove other than a VC is much much easier to burn cleanly and predictably. You don't need to get a cat stove to solve your wife problem, you just need a better stove than your VC.

My non-cat hearthstone needs to be filled much more often than a similar sized cat stove. Maybe twice as often but it is super easy, there is only one draft control and nothing to "engage". My wife hot-loads, cold loads, and restarts the stove whenever it needs it and even in the mornings she will beat me to it. She is not mechanically inclined or manly, it's just easy as it should be.

So when you live in a desert, the grass is always greener. The VC stoves are very nice to look at.

 

[Slow1]

Well - there is the point. IF I were to replace this stove at all, I lean toward a Cat stove in general for the longer burn time. As originally stated, however, I don't seriously think I will be able to justify it unless I were to find a buyer for my existing stove who is willing to pay near new price. Granted, I bought it for a very good price (significantly lower than any local shops were quoting) so that does work in my favor, but...

Now, the other thing is the question of heating ability. I do like that I can crank the VC up and get the house warming up rather quickly in the morning. I don't think I can do that with a soapstone stove in the same way, but then again I'm rather hoping it won't be necessary if it burns better all night.

 

[Diabel]

Slow1,

With a properly seasoned wood & well placed splits you should have NO problem getting overnight burns with your stove!! With wet/unseasoned wood it does not matter what stove you use...it will not perform to its potential.

 

[cybex]

Slow1- I'll trade my VC NC for yours. This stove rips! I wish I had your problem. -Wes

 

[Todd]

Both stoves can fit the same amount of wood and hold the same amount of BTU's but the real cordwood efficiency for the Fireview is as high as 80% according to Woodstock so you will get more heat over a longer period than the VC. True it won't heat up as fast, but it's not like it takes hours to get heat out of soapstone. From a cold start I can get her up to 500 in 45 minutes. You won't have any problem with overnight burns, 10-12 hrs with dry hardwood is easy.

As far as operating, if my wife can do it anybody can. It basically the same as you current stove, it has an extra lever for the bypass, but you won't have to fiddle with special loading techniques and you won't have the stalling problems, just rake the coals, fill the box, burn with bypass open for 10-15 minutes, flip the lever up and engage cat and set the air setting where you want the heat output. My wife actually thinks this stove is easier to operate than my old Hearthstone was.

I have no doubt you would be happy with the Fireview, but the VC may work out fine for you to if you have a little more time with it and figure out all the little quirks.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

It never ceases to amaze me when people write that, "The operation of the cat stove is somewhat more complicated than most non-cat stoves..."

Naturally, our stove is a cat stove and one that Slow1 is looking at. We've used this stove all of the 2007-2008 burning season and all of this season. So, we've had time to finally "learn" how to operate this complicated thing, so please bear with me while I explain it.

When you are to reload a stove, you naturally will open the draft fully before opening the door. No problem there. But with this complicated cat stove, we also move a lever (sort of similar to moving the lever on the draft control. Okay, the same thing.). So one part of the complicated series is now done.

We put wood in the stove and close the door, leaving both of those levers alone for the present. Usually the wood will ignite almost immediately (should if it is dry), so from the time it starts flaming, we actually look at the clock. The reason for this is that Woodstock recommends 10-15 minutes before engaging the cat.

Most times we wait 10 minutes but sometimes longer, depending upon the wood and how much we put in. But let's say the wife is home alone and has to do this. KISS. Mark 10 minutes, set the draft on 1 and move that other lever too while you are at it. Done! Well, most times we wait another minute and turn the draft down further.

So, is this really all that complicated? While moving the draft lever you also move the other lever which is directly above the draft lever! What is so complicated about that?


So, wife is home all day. Daytime is when we burn our "junk" wood. That is, knotty stuff, mis-shaped logs that are more difficult to pack in stove. Maybe even some really short stuff. When the house begins to cool a bit, the wife opens the stove (aha! She is doing that right now as I type!) and puts 3 pieces of wood in. The draft is open and the cat lever is down. In 10 minutes, the cat lever will go up and the draft will be closed to the proper setting. I say a child can do this much!

I've also stated in the past the comparison to what I read here on the forum when people talk about primary air and then ask what that other lever is for (this is on stoves other than Woodstock). So what's the beef?


As for the long burns, so much depends upon the wood. With good wood, we can set our draft at .25 and it will burn for many, many hours. But we'll get different burn times if we burn maple, or ash or oak or something else. At present we burn mainly ash and soft maple. We like to put in one soft maple on each load because of the way it burns and starts the fire going nicely. The ash is for the longer burn time.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Now, the other thing is the question of heating ability. I do like that I can crank the VC up and get the house warming up rather quickly in the morning. I don't think I can do that with a soapstone stove in the same way, but then again I'm rather hoping it won't be necessary if it burns better all night.

This is another old tale that is bull.

If you can get that VC stove warming the house quickly in the morning but it takes me maybe 5 to 10 minutes longer with my soapstone stove, is that really a concern?

Same goes for a cold start. If the stove is cold, that is, you haven't had a fire in it for days. How long will it take to get that VC pumping heat? It is said that it takes soapstone a long time to start throwing heat. To that, I say bull!

Part of the equation is how you start the fire and what type of wood you use. Again, we like soft maple. We use that for kindling and if we are starting a cold stove, soft maple is all we put into the firebox. What is a long time? Is half an hour a long time? That's about what it will take to get the stove up to the temperature it needs to engage the cat. Once that cat is engaged, the temperature really goes up super fast. So, it might take an extra 10-15 minutes with this stove. I would not say that is a concern. If you need heat faster, run an oil furnace.

 

[Northern NH Mike]

Slow1,

With a properly seasoned wood & well placed splits you should have NO problem getting overnight burns with your stove!! With wet/unseasoned wood it does not matter what stove you use...it will not perform to its potential.

Diddo
I get 8 hour burns with large dry splits, and good room temps with the fan unit on low speed.

 

[Highbeam]

It never ceases to amaze me when people write that, "The operation of the cat stove is somewhat more complicated than most non-cat stoves..."

Naturally, our stove is a cat stove and one that Slow1 is looking at. We've used this stove all of the 2007-2008 burning season and all of this season. So, we've had time to finally "learn" how to operate this complicated thing, so please bear with me while I explain it.

When you are to reload a stove, you naturally will open the draft fully before opening the door. No problem there. But with this complicated cat stove, we also move a lever (sort of similar to moving the lever on the draft control. Okay, the same thing.). So one part of the complicated series is now done.

We put wood in the stove and close the door, leaving both of those levers alone for the present. Usually the wood will ignite almost immediately (should if it is dry), so from the time it starts flaming, we actually look at the clock. The reason for this is that Woodstock recommends 10-15 minutes before engaging the cat.

Most times we wait 10 minutes but sometimes longer, depending upon the wood and how much we put in. But let's say the wife is home alone and has to do this. KISS. Mark 10 minutes, set the draft on 1 and move that other lever too while you are at it. Done! Well, most times we wait another minute and turn the draft down further.

So, is this really all that complicated? While moving the draft lever you also move the other lever which is directly above the draft lever! What is so complicated about that?

Easy there Backwoods, I never said running a cat stove was hard. I did say it is MORE complicated than running a non-cat and it is.

Many if not most non-cats have only a single air lever which is less complicated than your two lever arrangement complete with required clock and several steps. Amazingly, one lever is easier. Also, there is this whole concept of cat light off temperature which is more complicated then just loading wood. Hey, it's not complicated, only MORE complicated to run a cat stove than a non-cat.

Hmmm, one lever makes the fire faster to the left and slower to the right. I don't know why it took you a year to learn how to run your cat stove, that seems awfully long for such a simple two lever device.

 

[Todd]

It never ceases to amaze me when people write that, "The operation of the cat stove is somewhat more complicated than most non-cat stoves..."

Naturally, our stove is a cat stove and one that Slow1 is looking at. We've used this stove all of the 2007-2008 burning season and all of this season. So, we've had time to finally "learn" how to operate this complicated thing, so please bear with me while I explain it.

When you are to reload a stove, you naturally will open the draft fully before opening the door. No problem there. But with this complicated cat stove, we also move a lever (sort of similar to moving the lever on the draft control. Okay, the same thing.). So one part of the complicated series is now done.

We put wood in the stove and close the door, leaving both of those levers alone for the present. Usually the wood will ignite almost immediately (should if it is dry), so from the time it starts flaming, we actually look at the clock. The reason for this is that Woodstock recommends 10-15 minutes before engaging the cat.

Most times we wait 10 minutes but sometimes longer, depending upon the wood and how much we put in. But let's say the wife is home alone and has to do this. KISS. Mark 10 minutes, set the draft on 1 and move that other lever too while you are at it. Done! Well, most times we wait another minute and turn the draft down further.

So, is this really all that complicated? While moving the draft lever you also move the other lever which is directly above the draft lever! What is so complicated about that?

Easy there Backwoods, I never said running a cat stove was hard. I did say it is MORE complicated than running a non-cat and it is.

Many if not most non-cats have only a single air lever which is less complicated than your two lever arrangement complete with required clock and several steps. Amazingly, one lever is easier. Also, there is this whole concept of cat light off temperature which is more complicated then just loading wood. Hey, it's not complicated, only MORE complicated to run a cat stove than a non-cat.

Hmmm, one lever makes the fire faster to the left and slower to the right. I don't know why it took you a year to learn how to run your cat stove, that seems awfully long for such a simple two lever device.

Hey , you non cat guys need to watch the clock too! You can't just throw wood in and leave the air on low, you have to move the lever on high and burn for 10-20 minutes before turning it down or it will just smoulder and gunk up the glass. The only extra step in a cat stove is the damper lever and that's done the same time you adjust the air. One other thing with non cats I never liked is when your trying to maintain a clean low burn, you constantly have to tweak the air to maintain flame in the fire box to keep those secondaries going. No need for that with a cat stove. I don't think either stove is complicated, and they both need to be monitored and burned properly for best results.

 

[Slow1]

Well to the "cat vs Non-Cat" "1 vs 2 lever" discussion - the VC Encore NC is a non-cat with two levers so I already have that complexity. However I have the issue that even after waiting a bit it may not always take off and burn clean. Perhaps this is just due to having wood that is not as dry as it needs to be for this stove. So I'll pose the obvious question. How sensitive is the Fireview going to be to less than ideal wood? Will the cat work ok with somewhat marginal wood?

 

[Diabel]

With unseasoned wood you're not giving the encore a chance...

With such wood you will clog the cat (on the fireview) & you will not be a happy camper!

 

[FireWalker]

With unseasoned wood you're not giving the encore a chance...

With such wood you will clog the cat (on the fireview) & you will not be a happy camper!

There it is, probably the single most important issue we all have. Many people have problems with all different types of stoves and most of those problems can be attributed to semi seasoned wood supply. Oak and some other hardwoods are just not going to burn well after seasoning for only one year. I struggled for years with my cat stove and the one thing that helped the most was good seasoned wood. Yea I told myself for years that my wood was dry but when you load it in there and check back in 20 minutes and see water bubbling and steaming on the ends of your supposedly dry wood it's hard to blame it on the stove.

Rant over.

I've tried both stove types, my wife like our current stove much better than the last, no worries just don't forget to turn it down after loading. She never adds more than 3 splits anyway so there is little danger of overfire even if she were to forget.

By the way guys, sometimes with a cat stove like mine (VC DW XL) and the one we are discussing here when you engage the cat it may not take and then you have to start over. This is fiddling around, it's time consuming and it's difficult to explain how and why it is necessary to someone who is probably busy doing something else making it frustrating to boot. It can also be stinky if you get a puff. Not hearing a lot of this problem with the Woodstock crew but I hear plenty of it from the VC people including me.

 

[begreen]

My wife is exactly the same way. Bypass levers and secondary controls get forgotten as soon as a timer goes off in the kitchen or the phone rings. The simpler the stove, the better. She also never puts more than 3 splits in the stove at one time. But you've got to appreciate the fact that they are willing to keep the stove going. It's really nice to come home to a warm fire AND the smell of good cooking. Bless them one and all.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Firewalker, this is the first time I've ever heard of "starting over" with the cat. And we've never experienced a puff.

I think I've stated it several times on here but we usually put in at least one very dry soft maple along with whatever else we put in. This gives the fire a good boost right off and cuts down the time before engaging the cat. You can imagine what we have when we put all soft maple in! Instant inferno! lol

Usually when we engage the cat, that thing is glowing red within a minute or less unless we just don't have that big of a fire in the stove. If it doesn't glow, it is still working and we can tell because the stove temperature goes up so fast while the flue temperature drops.


I'm still trying to figure out how moving a lever would make things complicated.... Then I think back when I was a young lad and we had a draft on the ash door, a slider on the fire door and a damper in the stove pipe. Sounds complicated, I guess, but for this lad who started at an early age it didn't seem all that complicated.

 

[begreen]

Soft maple is all we burned last year. And this year it's worse with a good dose of pine mixed in. You can imagine our burn times. Count your blessings to live in the land of hardwoods.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Hey BeGreen, you might be surprised at how long of a burn we can get using only soft maple! All we have to do is almost shut the draft off and let it smolder. The only thing we have to be careful about is possible overheating as it could get away from you if you weren't careful. I've a bunch of it to cut yet this spring and I rather like it too.

 

[begreen]

Not surprised, a little envious maybe, but the wife doesn't like existing soapstones, so what can I say. If our splits are large and the stove is packed just right, we can get about 8 hrs. But smoldering never happens in our stove. Even with E/W loading, once the fire has burned a tunnel under the front lower edge of the bottom log, the rest of the logs ignite in a mighty secondary blaze. 700+ stovetop temps follow for about an hour or two and then the gradual decline cycle starts. 6-8 hrs later (4-6 with pine/fir) it's refill time. Next year I'll be burning hardwood. Looking forward to it.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

I can just imagine; a 35 degree day so the stove is going at 700 degrees! I'll bet lots of clothing gets removed! lol

You'll love that hardwood. Good luck.

 

[FireWalker]

Firewalker, this is the first time I've ever heard of "starting over" with the cat. And we've never experienced a puff.

I think I've stated it several times on here but we usually put in at least one very dry soft maple along with whatever else we put in. This gives the fire a good boost right off and cuts down the time before engaging the cat. You can imagine what we have when we put all soft maple in! Instant inferno! lol

Usually when we engage the cat, that thing is glowing red within a minute or less unless we just don't have that big of a fire in the stove. If it doesn't glow, it is still working and we can tell because the stove temperature goes up so fast while the flue temperature drops.


I'm still trying to figure out how moving a lever would make things complicated.... Then I think back when I was a young lad and we had a draft on the ash door, a slider on the fire door and a damper in the stove pipe. Sounds complicated, I guess, but for this lad who started at an early age it didn't seem all that complicated.

With my Duchwest starting over to get a light off happened just about every day. You could get a balzing fire giong, shut the bypass and maybe you would get some dancing blue/yellow flames maybe you wouldn't. If you didn't and you walked away for 20 minutes there was a good chance you get a nice burp of really smelly wood smoke, happened to me all the time and my wife just got in the habit of closing the primary air down and leaving the bypass open. And then there is the overnight burn problem where you set the air supply on low with everything working nicely and go to bed. Then 3 hours later you get up because the fire box temp went below cat burn temp and smoke burps out the air intakes. My bet is Woodstock did the R&D;and tested for all us mortal wood burners but VC/DW made products that need a little more user input.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Whoa. Nasty.

 

[ICY99]

With unseasoned wood you're not giving the encore a chance...

With such wood you will clog the cat (on the fireview) & you will not be a happy camper!

Diabel, on an earlier post you said that everburn loves the wet wood as an excuse for VC's glowing stoves:

"Another thing...the wetter the wood the harder the everburn has to work to accomplish a clean burn...the higher the temps!"

By that logic you should recommend to Slow1 to fill the firebox with wet wood and then he'll get really high temps, no?