I noticed there are a lot of post on some poeple haveing problems keeping a fire going on a 30nc with the door closed. I started mine up for the first time Friday night. Took me about 2 hours to get it going right. It does burn a lot better with door open, but i finally got it going and man did i work great. It cruised along at 550 for about 3 hours. When i went to get it going before bed, it took a while again to get the flames back, but the temp stayed up, window isn't black either, just a little brown in the bottom corners. The drafted seems to be good with, with door open most of the way the smoke goes up and out the chimney but there was a few times it came out the door. I just seem to always have the promblem of reloading it it doesn't take off like my old Earth Stove. I had it going on Saturday and before we left the house I put a huge chuck of oak on the fire, just one big one, it kinda took off ok and the temp was about 450, when we got back to the house 9 1/2 hours later the temp was 300 and still had a little chuck off the side left and lots of hot coals. I just don't know why the restart is so hard to get going. The door cracked it ok then shut it it goes away. A lot of my wood is mostly seasoned, i usually never have fully seasoned wood and never have had a problem with it. while it was burning nice and hot I threw a piece of red oak in that was cut maybe 4 months ago, the flames took right off on it and burned nice. So i am really confused. maybe all of my problems are just being new to this stove. Any Ideas.
First burn in my Englander 30
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cre73
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You really answered some of your own questions. Well seasoned wood is the key to getting a fast start and being able to close the door sooner. I have some locust right now that isn't quite ready. I have to mix it with some well seasoned soft maple to get it going, takes about ten minutes. I close mine down in stages, first door cracked open for a few minutes, second close door but do not latch, third latch door make sure primary air is all the way open, finally push in primary air control until the handle is right under the lip of the stove. You will have a learning curve but once you figure it out you won't have any more problems.
fredarm
Minister of Fire
Also, when you reload, rake the coals to the front and put a small split on top of them in front of your bigger wood, with the split edge on the coals. This will light off quickly and get things going faster. These EPA stoves burn from front to back due to the airwash that helps keep the window clean.
One thing you can do with the 30 since it has that large basically square firebox is to rake the coals into a line across the very front of the firebox and then load some splits N/S with the front part of the splits sitting on top of the coals. With the primary air all the way open close the door and it will take off fast and "cigar burn" the splits from the front to the back.
Sounds like unseasoned wood is the issue to me. Oak needs literally six times the amount of drying time than your four-month old oak.
Older stoves will burn far more questionable wood in what seems to be a better fashion than an EPA stove. If you're thinking that some of your wood might not be fully seasoned when you are using an Earth Stove, then you will absolutely want to get some wood up and drying now for next year. It can be tough to tell really dry wood when you're used to burning in an appliance that will happily take wood that an EPA stove would rather regurgitate onto your hearth/floor than burn. Your best bet is to pick up a moisture meter for around 20 dollars online, re-split one of your larger pieces, and test the moisture on the inside to see what moisture content you're actually dealing with. 25% is really the max amount of moisture you want to have in the wood. With really dry wood, I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised at just how easy your stove is to get up and running.
You might try picking up one of those pre-wrapped bundles of kiln dried firewood from the local grocery store or home depot/lowes. These are guaranteed to be dry, and usually come with a starter. I can load a full load of these into my stove and place one firestarter. There is no need for paper, kindling, cardboard, or any such nonsense if you are using a firestarter. Once I light the starter, I can close the door fully, open the air control, and not have to fiddle with it until it's time to fully close the air control. This should also be true of your Englander, unless you've got draft problems.
What is your chimney setup? Do you have a masonry chimney fully lined to the top, or do you have a class A pipe that goes up through the roof or out the side of the house? Roughly how many feet of pipe do you have starting from the stove to the very top of the chimney? Is your chimney 6 or 8 inch? Do you have pics of your install?
Older stoves will burn far more questionable wood in what seems to be a better fashion than an EPA stove. If you're thinking that some of your wood might not be fully seasoned when you are using an Earth Stove, then you will absolutely want to get some wood up and drying now for next year. It can be tough to tell really dry wood when you're used to burning in an appliance that will happily take wood that an EPA stove would rather regurgitate onto your hearth/floor than burn. Your best bet is to pick up a moisture meter for around 20 dollars online, re-split one of your larger pieces, and test the moisture on the inside to see what moisture content you're actually dealing with. 25% is really the max amount of moisture you want to have in the wood. With really dry wood, I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised at just how easy your stove is to get up and running.
You might try picking up one of those pre-wrapped bundles of kiln dried firewood from the local grocery store or home depot/lowes. These are guaranteed to be dry, and usually come with a starter. I can load a full load of these into my stove and place one firestarter. There is no need for paper, kindling, cardboard, or any such nonsense if you are using a firestarter. Once I light the starter, I can close the door fully, open the air control, and not have to fiddle with it until it's time to fully close the air control. This should also be true of your Englander, unless you've got draft problems.
What is your chimney setup? Do you have a masonry chimney fully lined to the top, or do you have a class A pipe that goes up through the roof or out the side of the house? Roughly how many feet of pipe do you have starting from the stove to the very top of the chimney? Is your chimney 6 or 8 inch? Do you have pics of your install?
karri0n said:
I actually have a lot of seasoned wood to use so i am not really worried about using the oak that i just cut till next year at least, if it comes down to me using it i am planning on mixing it with the seasoned stuff. anyway, I have been planning on adding pictures of my setup since i remodeled my hearth after i got the new stove. My chimney is a interior mansonry and tile lined with a 6in SS flex. it's roughly 20ft from the wall thimble to the top.
A deep firebox stove like the 30 is a royal pain to burn in East/West. The best way to get a good E/W burn is to put two small one or two inch "runners" N/S under the E/W load to let air circulate. Personally I burn all N/S loads in mine anymore.
BrotherBart said:
I agree with you on that one. i tried to restart a fire E/W didn't work to well. it just burned right were the air was hitting it in the center of the wood. once it was burned a little i took the poker and moved it around and then i got a pretty nice fire going. the one bad thing is when i cut all my wood i cut it for the Earth Stove. oops, didn't think i was getting a 30 so now i have a lot of wood to long.
crabby said:
I feel your pain. My old stove would take 24 inch splits. The first season with the thirty all winter long I had to go out and whack the ends off of splits. Seven cords worth. And, of course, it was the most snow we have had in years that year.
If you want a light show with that stove rake your coals into a line front to back in the middle of the stove and then put two big splits N/S on either side and one on top creating a tunnel in front of the doghouse sticking up in front. Leave a little space between the back of the one on top and the back wall of the stove for the super heated gases to come out and roll back across the top.
BrotherBart said:
Yeah i think that's what i am going to have to do start cutting my ends off the bad thing is i only have to cut 1 1/2" off. oh well yeah i was reading somewhere that you rack everything to the center. Another question i have for ya. did your class turn a little brown in the bottom corners? you only notice the brown when the fire is out or when you open the door, but when you got a fire going you can't see it.
The best cure for keeping the glass clean and for loading the stove is to cut the stuff to 16" splits. A load of sixteen inch splits in that firebox is a heck of a lot of wood. If you have splits loaded N/S that are too close to the glass then until the firebox gets really hot the gases coming out of the front end of the splits will condense on the glass. Also if you have one blocking that doghouse air it bounces back into the glass instead of going into the fire.
budman
Minister of Fire
SlyFerret
Minister of Fire
I'm at the beginning of my second full season with my 30.
My biggest suggestion with the 30 (or really any stove, I imagine) is to be patient. I've found that the times that I struggled with mine early on were the times that I was in a hurry, usually due to oversleeping in the morning. The startup process is what it is, and there isn't much you can do to hurry it along.
Like BB, I too always burn North-South.
I've also found that this stove burns much better when you load it up and let it run the way it was designed to run. If you're trying to burn small quick fires in it, you'll probably have trouble because it will be difficult to get the stove to burn properly that way. It just takes too much to get it up to operating temperature.
The 30 is a serious heater, so when it runs the way it wants to run... holy moley, look out!! I can't run mine 24x7 unless it's single digits and windy out. Most of the winter, I fire off one load in the morning and one load in the late evening.
What you describe does sound an awful lot like what I experienced when I was burning wood that wasn't seasoned properly.
-SF
My biggest suggestion with the 30 (or really any stove, I imagine) is to be patient. I've found that the times that I struggled with mine early on were the times that I was in a hurry, usually due to oversleeping in the morning. The startup process is what it is, and there isn't much you can do to hurry it along.
Like BB, I too always burn North-South.
I've also found that this stove burns much better when you load it up and let it run the way it was designed to run. If you're trying to burn small quick fires in it, you'll probably have trouble because it will be difficult to get the stove to burn properly that way. It just takes too much to get it up to operating temperature.
The 30 is a serious heater, so when it runs the way it wants to run... holy moley, look out!! I can't run mine 24x7 unless it's single digits and windy out. Most of the winter, I fire off one load in the morning and one load in the late evening.
What you describe does sound an awful lot like what I experienced when I was burning wood that wasn't seasoned properly.
-SF
North of 60
Minister of Fire
Crabby, I am pretty sure you dont just burn anything in that Avitar of yours either and expect it to preform 100%. ;-)
Smoke coming out?
Trust us, it's the wood. EPA stoves like wood with 15-20% moisture. with 20 ft of insulated liner into an interior masonry, you really couldn't be any better off as far as the setup goes. Try burning some kiln dried and you'll see what the performance should be like. I still recommend the moisture meter; you might be really surprised at the moisture content of the wood you're burning. The results are well worth it.
Edit:
I saw your pics of the install. Very nice work and a beautiful setup. I'm wondering how long that burn had been going when you took the pic. it looks like your glass might be blackened, because it doesn't look so bright. If your glass is blackening, it's a sure sign of wet wood. I would also only expect to see it burning so little in the first 5-10 minutes, and after that the firebox should appear pretty full of flame.
a good quote I heard on here once:
"If your glass is black, so is your flue"
Trust us, it's the wood. EPA stoves like wood with 15-20% moisture. with 20 ft of insulated liner into an interior masonry, you really couldn't be any better off as far as the setup goes. Try burning some kiln dried and you'll see what the performance should be like. I still recommend the moisture meter; you might be really surprised at the moisture content of the wood you're burning. The results are well worth it.
Edit:
I saw your pics of the install. Very nice work and a beautiful setup. I'm wondering how long that burn had been going when you took the pic. it looks like your glass might be blackened, because it doesn't look so bright. If your glass is blackening, it's a sure sign of wet wood. I would also only expect to see it burning so little in the first 5-10 minutes, and after that the firebox should appear pretty full of flame.
a good quote I heard on here once:
"If your glass is black, so is your flue"
karri0n said:
Thanks for the compliment. I didn't insulate my liner since it was an interior liner, plus it wouldn't fit or it would be really close. I never really had troubles with it building up creosote at all just at the top and cap. Anyway I took the picture right after I put the 2 big pieces in that's when it took off and started to burn. I had a hard time starting it, i was using smaller chunks of wood and they would burn but not enough to get the temp up then i put the 2 big pieces in and there was the flame and burned great all night. i didn't have any lights on in the basement and flash was off when i took the pic and it was shut down. there was a nice flame in there the picture didn't turn out so great, glass isn't black. just a little brown on the corners. there is a nice big flames at the top around the tubes as well. actually pretty cool to see.
SlyFerret
Minister of Fire
Depending on temperature and humidity conditions... even when operating properly, I do occasionally get some white "smoke" out of my chimney when the moisture in the exhaust hits the cold air outside, similar to when you can see your breath when it's cold out.
The difference is, the moisture will be white and wispy, where smoke would be darker and linger longer.
-SF
The difference is, the moisture will be white and wispy, where smoke would be darker and linger longer.
-SF
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