First look at Drolet's new EPA 2020 wood furnace...

[SBIMarc]

Congratulations, as you alluded to, the testing process is challenging. Speaking with the EPA, I had a feeling it was close to being certified. I also know that the EPA doesn't want to listen to us again, so they were making sure to dot their I's and cross their t's. I see the test results now and will be interested in looking through them in detail. Zeigler did the testing, and I know he learned a lot from us going through the process previously.

Thank you. Brian Z was a reviewer, but he did not do the testing himself. Another one of his employees did, one based in Canada. As you know, the test procedure is based on CSAB415.1-10 and I was Chairman of this standard. The Heat Commander was the 5th furnace we were certifying to that standard (with the EPA specific requirements added) and the Intertek employee who did it for us was probably at his 10th certification of a warm air furnace per B415. So from a protocol standpoint, we were in our a comfort zone. It was still a challenge to get the emissions where they needed to be.

 

[brenndatomu]

I see the test results now

You must have access to something other than the publicly available database...

 

[lampmfg]

You must have access to something other than the publicly available database...

It's on their website.
https://sbiweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/6187/heat_commander-sr-36_series-non-cbi.pdf

 

[JRHAWK9]

Being a skeptic in general and having an analytical personality, I browsed the owners manual for the Heat Commander and I noticed a couple things which potential users will probably want some clarification of, as they were confusing to me.

The heat power is almost identical to the Caddy. It is a bigger unit though (physically). You will load more wood into it, which is nice.

The Caddy has a 3.6CF firebox, according to the brochure on your site which I screen captured above. The Heat Commander has the same sized 3.6CF firebox according to the above screen capture of the specs found on Drolet's site. How does one fit more wood into the same sized firebox? Also, the Caddy shows a "maximum burn time" of 15 hours while the HC states 10 hours....for the same sized firebox....??

These are screen shots from the user manual:

It's a 3.6CF firebox with a max log length of 21" (again, according to the specs found in the manual), however owners manual states you should always keep 4" of airspace in front of the logs. This means cutting wood to 17" max. Then it also states when re-loading on a hot ember bed (a standard re-load during the dead of winter) to place logs N-S and then E-W...with air space between them. This means one will have to have two different lengths of splits, one 17" long for the N-S and another shorter one for the E-W. If one loads a 3.6CF firebox according to how the manuals states, one will be able to fit LESS wood inside than if you would pack it tight. But yet you can "load more wood" into it compared to the Caddy..? Very confusing. Assume one CAN pack all 3.6CF of the HC firebox with wood, why the 5 hour less burn time when comparing it to the Caddy? So, somehow one can load more wood in both 3.6CF fireboxes when the splits being loaded into the HC need to be spaced out vs not spaced out in the Caddy and it burns for less overall time producing "almost identical to the Caddy" heat power. I can see the lower burn times, when loading according to the manual, as one would load less wood into the firebox when abiding by the proper spacing, but then you mention how one can "load more wood into it". The whole thing is kinda confusing as the numbers just don't add up. Can you clarify?

As far as the proper spacing of the wood, most people will not do this, as most people will just throw some splits in the firebox, close the door and walk away. Is this "always" when referenced in the owners manual to the front spacing and spacing of logs in general something that the EPA made you put in the manual? Most people will not abide by the spacing of the logs and even the 4" spacing in front. What would the consequences be of not abiding by these spacing requirements and simply filling the firebox up with ~3.6CF of firewood? Improper or unsafe burn/combustion? Reduced heat output? Furnace damage and consequent warranty denial? This would be very important to me as a consumer to know before purchasing, as there would be no way I would be loading according to the manual.

The good side of this is that the unit has been burning in our lab for a very long time. It is rugged.

This is good to hear, however, if I am reading the owners manual correctly, why only a 2 year warranty on the firebox? If this is the case, no offense, this is a joke. Maybe this aligns with industry standards, but it sure seems short.

 

[SBIMarc]

Being a skeptic in general and having an analytical personality, I browsed the owners manual for the Heat Commander and I noticed a couple things which potential users will probably want some clarification of, as they were confusing to me.



View attachment 264456

View attachment 264457

The Caddy has a 3.6CF firebox, according to the brochure on your site which I screen captured above. The Heat Commander has the same sized 3.6CF firebox according to the above screen capture of the specs found on Drolet's site. How does one fit more wood into the same sized firebox? Also, the Caddy shows a "maximum burn time" of 15 hours while the HC states 10 hours....for the same sized firebox....??

These are screen shots from the user manual:

View attachment 264458

View attachment 264459

It's a 3.6CF firebox with a max log length of 21" (again, according to the specs found in the manual), however owners manual states you should always keep 4" of airspace in front of the logs. This means cutting wood to 17" max. Then it also states when re-loading on a hot ember bed (a standard re-load during the dead of winter) to place logs N-S and then E-W...with air space between them. This means one will have to have two different lengths of splits, one 17" long for the N-S and another shorter one for the E-W. If one loads a 3.6CF firebox according to how the manuals states, one will be able to fit LESS wood inside than if you would pack it tight. But yet you can "load more wood" into it compared to the Caddy..? Very confusing. Assume one CAN pack all 3.6CF of the HC firebox with wood, why the 5 hour less burn time when comparing it to the Caddy? So, somehow one can load more wood in both 3.6CF fireboxes when the splits being loaded into the HC need to be spaced out vs not spaced out in the Caddy and it burns for less overall time producing "almost identical to the Caddy" heat power. I can see the lower burn times, when loading according to the manual, as one would load less wood into the firebox when abiding by the proper spacing, but then you mention how one can "load more wood into it". The whole thing is kinda confusing as the numbers just don't add up. Can you clarify?

As far as the proper spacing of the wood, most people will not do this, as most people will just throw some splits in the firebox, close the door and walk away. Is this "always" when referenced in the owners manual to the front spacing and spacing of logs in general something that the EPA made you put in the manual? Most people will not abide by the spacing of the logs and even the 4" spacing in front. What would the consequences be of not abiding by these spacing requirements and simply filling the firebox up with ~3.6CF of firewood? Improper or unsafe burn/combustion? Reduced heat output? Furnace damage and consequent warranty denial? This would be very important to me as a consumer to know before purchasing, as there would be no way I would be loading according to the manual.



This is good to hear, however, if I am reading the owners manual correctly, why only a 2 year warranty on the firebox? If this is the case, no offense, this is a joke. Maybe this aligns with industry standards, but it sure seems short.

You like to analyze stuff, that's for sure! Do you work in the industry? I would be happy to know more about your background and what you do. Would you like to organize a call to discuss the unit in more details? Let me know I will be glad to organize something. We can even set-up a videoconference. Back to some of your questions. As a manufacturer, we need to offer a loading procedure that is as close as possible (if not identical) to what we feel will produce the best results as per our certification. If you have read my comments in the e-mail thread above, the furnace is really designed to minimize smoke in a multitude of loading configurations and procedures. Any way you load the unit, we know it will be perfectly safe and durable. As for the warranty, it is limited lifetime. Perhaps you have seen the line on "firebox components". This is indeed two years. But the 2 years is not for the box itself. Again, great product. Can't wait to get feedback from the field, and perhaps have a chance to talk to you in person!

 

[JRHAWK9]

You like to analyze stuff, that's for sure! Do you work in the industry? I would be happy to know more about your background and what you do. Would you like to organize a call to discuss the unit in more details? Let me know I will be glad to organize something. We can even set-up a videoconference. Back to some of your questions. As a manufacturer, we need to offer a loading procedure that is as close as possible (if not identical) to what we feel will produce the best results as per our certification. If you have read my comments in the e-mail thread above, the furnace is really designed to minimize smoke in a multitude of loading configurations and procedures. Any way you load the unit, we know it will be perfectly safe and durable. As for the warranty, it is limited lifetime. Perhaps you have seen the line on "firebox components". This is indeed two years. But the 2 years is not for the box itself. Again, great product. Can't wait to get feedback from the field, and perhaps have a chance to talk to you in person!

Nope, I'm not in the industry. I'm an engineer/CAD/GIS guy though, so the schooling kind of conditioned me into the (over)analyzing of everything.

The questions I posted were just out of my own curiosity, but were more aimed to help those who may be in the market for a furnace. So any answering of questions would be best served in public space in order to inform everybody. I'm not in the market for one as I'm happy with my current setup.

 

[SBIMarc]

Nope, I'm not in the industry. I'm an engineer/CAD/GIS guy though, so the schooling kind of conditioned me into the (over)analyzing of everything.

The questions I posted were just out of my own curiosity, but were more aimed to help those who may be in the market for a furnace. So any answering of questions would be best served in public space in order to inform everybody. I'm not in the market for one as I'm happy with my current setup.

Fair enough. But my offer still stands. If you want to help the public, I will be happy to set-up a videoconference with our team. You can even ask questions to the engineers who have developed the product. For us, it will be a chance to get to know you, learn a bit more about yourself and your background, and answer questions in a much more efficient way. This knowlege will in turn help you with any question that others may post on this forum.

 

[sloeffle]

Fair enough. But my offer still stands. If you want to help the public, I will be happy to set-up a videoconference with our team. You can even ask questions to the engineers who have developed the product. For us, it will be a chance to get to know you, learn a bit more about yourself and your background, and answer questions in a much more efficient way. This knowlege will in turn help you with any question that others may post on this forum.

@JRHAWK9 you should work with SBI on a JRHAWK branded line of furnaces. The first one should be named JRHAWK5000.

 

[trx250r87]

@SBIMarc

I would love to provide feedback or demo a new furnace if the opportunity exists! I reside in Northern Wisconsin and I have one of the original Tundra's (serial #377) that has all the factory updates installed by myself. I also have a degree in electronics if that helps in any way. Please reach out if interested!

Eric

 

[SBIMarc]

@SBIMarc

I would love to provide feedback or demo a new furnace if the opportunity exists! I reside in Northern Wisconsin and I have one of the original Tundra's (serial #377) that has all the factory updates installed by myself. I also have a degree in electronics if that helps in any way. Please reach out if interested!

Eric

Thanks Eric. Noted with thanks! I will inquire to our team as to when our trial period will start with the "connected" Heat Commander. I have a couple of people on my list and you are one of them. Thanks for your interest. Marc

 

[SBIMarc]

Thanks Eric. Noted with thanks! I will inquire to our team as to when our trial period will start with the "connected" Heat Commander. I have a couple of people on my list and you are one of them. Thanks for your interest. Marc

Eric, I have more information about our connected furnace program. We have 4 units left. If you are interested, please reach out to me at [email protected] I will explain the details of the program. Thanks!

 

[laynes69]

Eric, I have more information about our connected furnace program. We have 4 units left. If you are interested, please reach out to me at [email protected] I will explain the details of the program. Thanks!

E-mail sent! I did try to send one out a while back...however it didn't send.

 

[Mrpelletburner]

@SBIMarc - Will there be an introduction/promotion video released of this new unit? Perhaps providing an overview of operating?

 

[SBIMarc]

E-mail sent! I did try to send one out a while back...however it didn't send.

Got it! I will follow up for sure. Sincerely, Marc.

 

[sloeffle]

Eric, I have more information about our connected furnace program. We have 4 units left. If you are interested, please reach out to me at [email protected] I will explain the details of the program. Thanks!

I sent one too.

 

[andym]

Just returned to the forum after a long summer absence. I am really excited to see SBI rolling out the new furnace. I bought a Heatmax 2 in April. I didn't want to wait for the new model cause I seriously doubted they would get it ready for fall, due to Covid and all. Now I almost wish I had waited!
SBIMarc: are you offering any complimentary update packages for all previous units bought this year? Lol! Would such an 'update' or modification be possible? I see others had the same question.

 

[SBIMarc]

Just returned to the forum after a long summer absence. I am really excited to see SBI rolling out the new furnace. I bought a Heatmax 2 in April. I didn't want to wait for the new model cause I seriously doubted they would get it ready for fall, due to Covid and all. Now I almost wish I had waited!
SBIMarc: are you offering any complimentary update packages for all previous units bought this year? Lol! Would such an 'update' or modification be possible? I see others had the same question.

Hello! I think you did the right thing to buy the Heatmax II. We were far from certain that the Heat Commander would be ready on time. I think you have a great unit. We do not have any retrofit kit for the Heatmax II, but who knows what the future holds! Thanks for your support.

 

[andym]

Hello! I think you did the right thing to buy the Heatmax II. We were far from certain that the Heat Commander would be ready on time. I think you have a great unit. We do not have any retrofit kit for the Heatmax II, but who knows what the future holds! Thanks for your support.

My heating season has just started. I'm still on a learning curve, but am loving it so far. The best thing SBI/MFP did to ensure customer satisfaction was to include a decent quality moisture meter. I never would have believed that my wood was too wet back in April, but the meter and furnace showed otherwise. Indeed 20% is not dry enough!

 

[Hebner]

I see the MSRP jumped from $2799 yesterday to $3999 today.

 

[brenndatomu]

I see the MSRP jumped from $2799 yesterday to $3999 today.

Still $2799 here...65 in stock now...

HEAT COMMANDER WOOD FURNACE

Among the most efficient systems on the market based on distributed energy, the Heat Commander is a central heating system that is both cutting edge and accessible thanks to its innovative design and ease of use. EPA certified, its 310,000 BTU capacity

myfireplaceproducts.com

 

[Case1030]

I see the MSRP jumped from $2799 yesterday to $3999 today.

Probably on the Canadian site (USD/CAD).

 

[aswr]

installing a max caddy as we speak. Maybe i should have waited? always one step behind lol

 

[usernametaken]

installing a max caddy as we speak. Maybe i should have waited? always one step behind lol

If you required the output of a Max Caddy, wouldn't the Heat Commander be too small for your application? The Max Caddy can run up to 3500 square feet. Heat Commander is more in line with the standard Caddy at 2500 square feet on the high side if I'm not mistaken.

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Max Caddy though. I installed one last fall in my new home and am now on my second season with it. I am very impressed with it so far. Would I prefer a "smarter" "load and go" version that is also connected? Absolutely! However, I needed the larger output of the Max so I had to run what was the best fit for my home's size and layout (and was available at the time...) It does look like the Caddy line has two new furnaces en route as well. The Caddy Advanced and Caddy Advanced CR. I haven't seen anything on the web about them yet though...

 

[aswr]

got mine up and running. Still trying to figure the best way to run the max. it is an add on and the 2 furnaces are competing against each other a bit. When the house is calling for heat and the geo kicks in it dampers down the max. Not liking that and not making much sense. Hvac guy going to change it to not damper down the max when geo kicks in until it hit 2nd stage. We will try that and see how it goes. We set the plenum fan on temp at 130 and off at 100. Is that good for the unit?
My father has the kuuma vf 100. It is interesting to compare the 2 units. I do like the load and go of the vf100 better and how it tries to maintain the gasing all the time. (If kuuma would csa cert i probably would have installed one of those. But because canada is not important to them, they don't.) (The add on cert of the max was definitely a plus and easier to install on my house, I am not sure if the max is doing that.) Hard to tell even looking through the door. When she is good and hot with the damper open and then dampers down i see the gasses burning but then shortly after it seems to stop. Not sure if that the way she runs or not. New to me. any advice on how to set up the max is appreciated.

 

[usernametaken]

It's less than ideal to have two furnaces sharing ductwork AND running at the same time. Different static pressure will cause premature wear on the blowers if they are competing with one another. You'll also pull air backwards through the return when one furnace isn't running. I have mine set up with isolation dampers and an interlock. Flip the switch one way and the damper to the LP furnace / AC closes and the caddy is run by the home thermostats. Click it the other way and the Caddy is offline, it's damper closes and the LP furnace gets the signal. As to the intake damper on the Max Caddy, I agree. When it closes and your cruising, the secondaries die off fairly quickly and even a new call for heat 30 minutes later opening the damper back up doesn't bring them back. Now you have a slow burn until reload. For this reason, I'm considering pulling off my fresh air kit and doing a paper clip mod to prevent the intake damper from completely closing. I'd rather have the furnace making a little more heat than the stats are calling for than having it march slowly through the second half of the burn because the damper killed the fire when it was peaking. Lastly on your KIP, I would go a bit higher. If you want your blower fan speed to kick up, you need decent sustained plenum temps. I found that 135/115 works well for me. The higher you let it go before kicking in, the quicker you will get a high sustained plenum temp in my experience. It usually takes 45 minutes plus after a reload to be raging enough to sustain over 140 and then the next 30 minutes as your blower creeps up, you'll finally push 160 and get to speed 6. At that point, your house will start to gain temp as fast as a fossil fuel furnace. Anyways, I fought to tune this appliance last year and have it pretty dialed in so feel free to PM me any time with questions.